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8 hours ago, JPjr said:

mplemented well this also opens up space for making troops with things like spears & pokes more interesting as they become dedicated anti-cav units. Any unit with melee weapons with more than a 1” range could do x MWs to cavalry charges or something

And three edition later we’re playing with flank charges, ranks and a rulebook that takes a masters degree to understand ;) 

On a serious note I do understand most cav is in a weird place right now. But I rather they take a step back and just fix it on the warscrolls. Even if all cav has the same line of text. 
but it could definitely do with being a keyword. 

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23 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

@Landohammer I really liked in Fantasy (at least in 6th ed.) how the unit would use the general's leadership value instead of their own. It gave reason for leadership being included in their profile and also made it something to consider in terms of inclusion for certain heroes. I feel like inspiring presence being changed to having a unit use the heroes' leadership value as opposed to an auto pass might be an interesting change? 

Although, I have a feeling it would rarely get used it is cost a CP...

At the very least it would make Skaven and Goblins seem more appropriately cowardly.

This is what I've always been in favor for. It gives you some battleshock protection while ensuring you take part in it.

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40K fans must be loving life right now with all this content!! Cannot wait for AOS 3.0!!

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

40K fans must be loving life right now with all this content!!

LOL. You ever met one? Miserable ****** never happier than when they’re whining about one thing or another. Right now there’s large sections of the 40k community throwing a ******-fit because the intro text (all the blah blah blah emperor sits on his carrion throne blah blah blah) has been slightly modified and because they’ve been told that if they’re racists they might not be nice people. It’ll take more than a few community articles tickling their bellies to put a smile on their faces.

Edited by JPjr
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25 minutes ago, JPjr said:

LOL. You ever met one? Miserable ****** never happier than when they’re whining about one thing or another. Right now there’s large sections of the 40k community throwing a ******-fit because the intro text (all the blah blah blah emperor sits on his carrion throne blah blah blah) has been slightly modified and because they’ve been told that if they’re racists they might not be nice people. It’ll take more than a few community articles tickling their bellies to put a smile on their faces.

It must be a  global phenomenon, because 40k players here in Texas (USA) have the same stereotype that you just described, lol.

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1 hour ago, JPjr said:

LOL. You ever met one? Miserable ****** never happier than when they’re whining about one thing or another. Right now there’s large sections of the 40k community throwing a ******-fit because the intro text (all the blah blah blah emperor sits on his carrion throne blah blah blah) has been slightly modified and because they’ve been told that if they’re racists they might not be nice people. It’ll take more than a few community articles tickling their bellies to put a smile on their faces.

I've always had the assumption that 40K players were the grumpier of the 2 game systems back in WHFB but I had no idea they were as bad as this!! Is it because of the idoling of the Emperor and Space Marines? And killing all Heretics and Xenoooooo...oh yep I see it now.

 

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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

@Landohammer I really liked in Fantasy (at least in 6th ed.) how the unit would use the general's leadership value instead of their own. It gave reason for leadership being included in their profile and also made it something to consider in terms of inclusion for certain heroes. I feel like inspiring presence being changed to having a unit use the heroes' leadership value as opposed to an auto pass might be an interesting change? 

Although, I have a feeling it would rarely get used it is cost a CP...

At the very least it would make Skaven and Goblins seem more appropriately cowardly.

I think battleshock immunity should just go away entirely, except for in extremely conditional circumstances. Such as a Sylvaneth being near Alarielle in a forest in the realm of Ghyran lol.

But seriously, let support characters offer modifiers and rerolls. Never immunity. 

Note in that 40K battleshock is actually LESS important because the meta power armies generally run smaller squads. And they cracked down HARD on battleshock immunity in 9th. So this just leads me to believe that AOS 3.0 will be the same.

And with the insanely fast turnaround time of 8th to 9th I imagine AOS 3.0 isn't that far away. 

 

 

57 minutes ago, JPjr said:

LOL. You ever met one? Miserable ****** never happier than when they’re whining about one thing or another. Right now there’s large sections of the 40k community throwing a ******-fit because the intro text (all the blah blah blah emperor sits on his carrion throne blah blah blah) has been slightly modified and because they’ve been told that if they’re racists they might not be nice people. It’ll take more than a few community articles tickling their bellies to put a smile on their faces.

 

50 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

It must be a  global phenomenon, because 40k players here in Texas (USA) have the same stereotype that you just described, lol.

I know that there is a bit of a cultural difference but most 40k players I know are great dudes and fun opponents. And in general they are even more involved in the fluff than AOS players are.  Don't let a minority of whiners on the internet ruin your opinion of 40k players in general! 

But I will say this.  40k has a larger community than AOS because 40k players show up to events. Or at least they did Pre Covid.

Its easy to pick on them because of their passion. But if AOS players got out of their hobby rooms more often we wouldn't have to worry about being overshadowed by 40k so much! 

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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

@Landohammer I really liked in Fantasy (at least in 6th ed.) how the unit would use the general's leadership value instead of their own. It gave reason for leadership being included in their profile and also made it something to consider in terms of inclusion for certain heroes. I feel like inspiring presence being changed to having a unit use the heroes' leadership value as opposed to an auto pass might be an interesting change? 

Although, I have a feeling it would rarely get used it is cost a CP...

At the very least it would make Skaven and Goblins seem more appropriately cowardly.

As a rules change it would be a MASSIVE shift to not have inspiring presence that would make some armies unplayable (gitz at least), it would hurt elite units more than cheap ones, since even losing one troll/ogor/brute to battleshock is a big loss, stuff like mournfang and skullcrushers might become unplayable because of the liability. The game would 100% shift to MSU screens instead of hordes, this would minimize battleshock losses since its tougher to target multiple units, encourage shooting, both to aid in positioning of the screens, and so they can contribute regardless of their positioning.

 

Hordes would be literally erased from viability due to all of the horde killing spells. As an example, the slann lore in seraphon has a spell that rolls a die for each model in a unit, and on a 5+ inflicts a mortal. Without inspiring presence that would kill 20 grots, and make 16-22 flee due to battleshock (around 240 points worth of grots), and it is  one of the weaker horde clearing spells since it is only a 5+.  Grot heroes have low bravery as well, so even if you did use this version of inspiring presence you would only save a couple more grots. This is almost feasible already for seraphon anyways, but at least they need to take a couple turns to nuke down the heroes first.

 

Something that might work would be to let the unit take the test at its unmodified bravery, but that would leave us in the same situation as before except stuff like grots and skaven will sometimes lose a few models.

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1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

40K fans must be loving life right now with all this content!! Cannot wait for AOS 3.0!!

Definitely excited but personally I can wait. AoS2 is in a really good place right now and I think worth building off of for at least another year or two with more rule experiments like they did with Realmscapes.

Edition changes are hype but exploring what we have with continued updates is fun too and give them more time to cherry pick the best ideas to roll into a new edition for more efficient improvements and increasing the narrative possibilities in the realms. :)

 

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Just want to note that we get things wrong most often when we consider single changes out of context. Undoubtedly if GW decides to reduce or remove battleshock immunity it will have a large impact, but assertions that it will make certain units "unplayable" just don't make sense when we have no idea what other rules changes might be coming as well.

As a brief aside, the reason why I am so strident about this point (and you've seen me raise it again and again on this forum and in this thread) is that I've studied thinking and decision making quite a bit. Human thought is both aided by and plagued by systematic heuristics and biases. We do better at reaching an accurate analysis if we understand those heuristics and biases and then actively try to account for them in our thinking. One such heuristic is the "Anchoring and Adjustment" heuristic, in which we tend to "anchor" on an initial idea and then "adjust" from that anchor point. Where your anchor is placed really limits the likelihood that you will sufficiently adjust for new information if the initial anchor point is incorrect. By trying to analyze things with limited information we are willfully setting our anchor in the context of incomplete information, therefore increasing the likelihood that we will insufficiently adjust in the future when our information is more complete.

TL;DR: You're much more likely to reach a quality conclusion if your first impression is also high quality, so try not to make a first impression when you know your information is incomplete.

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@swarmofseals I agree that any changes like the one I suggested to inspiring presence would require a more holistic reimagining of the battleshock phase as a whole. I was thinking if such a change were to occur it would be in an update from one edition to the next, in the hopes that Battleshock would not fundmentally upset the balance of the game making horde armies unplayable (especially as I am thinking of getting into Gitz). But I am still grateful to the responses showcasing why it would not work with our current battleshock system.

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All this talk about leadership and grots make me think how shafted Grots and Gloomspite are competitively at current.

I really hope the eventual Grotbag Scutters makes Grots great again lol

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10 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

All this talk about leadership and grots make me think how shafted Grots and Gloomspite are competitively at current.

I really hope the eventual Grotbag Scutters makes Grots great again lol

Are Gloomspite bad? I always heard they were really swingy and unpredictable, making them less competitive but does this translate to them being a bad army? I am asking because I am thinking of starting a Gloomspite army as I have heard they are really fun.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Are Gloomspite bad? I always heard they were really swingy and unpredictable, making them less competitive but does this translate to them being a bad army? I am asking because I am thinking of starting a Gloomspite army as I have heard they are really fun.

Oh they are a ton of fun.

But If your going for like the top places on an event, You won’t play gitz.

Still for a beer and bretzel game, or even in some semi-competitive games, they can do pretty well.

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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15 hours ago, Kramer said:

And three edition later we’re playing with flank charges, ranks and a rulebook that takes a masters degree to understand ;) 

On a serious note I do understand most cav is in a weird place right now. But I rather they take a step back and just fix it on the warscrolls. Even if all cav has the same line of text. 
but it could definitely do with being a keyword. 

So much this :) while I do appreciate the simplistic rules of AoS I would not mind having more counters here and there but not the slow return to the complexity of WFB... 

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17 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

@Landohammer I really liked in Fantasy (at least in 6th ed.) how the unit would use the general's leadership value instead of their own. It gave reason for leadership being included in their profile and also made it something to consider in terms of inclusion for certain heroes. I feel like inspiring presence being changed to having a unit use the heroes' leadership value as opposed to an auto pass might be an interesting change? 

Although, I have a feeling it would rarely get used it is cost a CP...

At the very least it would make Skaven and Goblins seem more appropriately cowardly.

I’d be in favour of an an additional “bravery range” attribute for all units.  Any unit could inspire one unit in range per battleround (not turn).

I dont believe the general should have a greater bravery range by default.   Lesser generals may be supported by more similar level heroes.  Whereas taking Nagash will limit the number of support heroes nearby simply due to his points value.  An army may be a coalition, rather than a  dictatorship.

Also, while most units would have a range value “-“   Veteran units like everchosen could provide leadership to lesser units.

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6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Oh they are a ton of fun.

But If your going for like the top places on an event, You won’t play gitz.

Still for a beer and bretzel game, or even in some semi-competitive games, they can do pretty well.

That is perfect for me. I am a rather shy and non-competitive person that much prefers friendly games with people I know. I was dragged to a tournament once when I was a kid during WHFB days and had a massive anxiety attack. Luckily, I have a good group of friends that I mostly introduced to the hobby. I think that Gloomspite Gitz seem to balance fun, cool models and interesting mechanics and goblins are pretty easy to bring into other game systems like tabletop RPGs. I have been holding off on them as I keep hearing rumours about Grotbag Scuttlers and I am secretly hoping for Pirate themed sky grots.

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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

That is perfect for me. I am a rather shy and non-competitive person that much prefers friendly games with people I know. I was dragged to a tournament once when I was a kid during WHFB days and had a massive anxiety attack. Luckily, I have a good group of friends that I mostly introduced to the hobby. I think that Gloomspite Gitz seem to balance fun, cool models and interesting mechanics and goblins are pretty easy to bring into other game systems like tabletop RPGs. I have been holding off on them as I keep hearing rumours about Grotbag Scuttlers and I am secretly hoping for Pirate themed sky grots.

At this point if Grotbag Scuttlers dont happen I would absolutely shocked with the amount of times they're mentioned in some form or another.

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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

I have been holding off on them as I keep hearing rumours about Grotbag Scuttlers and I am secretly hoping for Pirate themed sky grots.

Me too!!! I can imagine all the bizarre things that GW could do with them...

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19 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

At this point if Grotbag Scuttlers dont happen I would absolutely shocked with the amount of times they're mentioned in some form or another.

Nippon, Cathay, Araby, Corsairs, Exodites - all are regularly mentioned by GW and were/have been for years. Gotrek and Felix (poster characters in the Old World for visiting basically every faction) even went to areas of Cathay and such in some shorter stories. Meanwhile GW regularly reminds us of Exodites whenever they write about Eldar lore in a general sense

Yet none have an official army for the 28-32mm games and the closest was Araby who got a Warmaster army. 

 

NEVER take mentions in lore to be fact. Even mentions of the Shadow Aelves and Vampires in AoS, whilst seeming to be perfect and dead-certain choices, are no guarantee that those armies will ever appear tabletop side. 

 

Sometimes plans get changed, or an idea proves impractical, or the powerhouse designer behind the idea leaves and no one else really knows what to do with it; or new other things come along and the project gets forever pushed down the line. 

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Posted (edited)

Maybe it‘s just me, but did the Hammerhal Herald Logo change? (Smoke and all?)

3631FEC7-4BB0-4E7C-AA98-6F159BF2CD55.jpeg.7030f458e79dfb8df514ae82262cf483.jpeg
 

also:

DShsgyUak0mr64I6-490x745.png
 

 

Edited by JackStreicher
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15 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Maybe it‘s just me, but did the Hammerhal Herald Logo change? (Smoke and all?)

3631FEC7-4BB0-4E7C-AA98-6F159BF2CD55.jpeg.7030f458e79dfb8df514ae82262cf483.jpeg
 

also:

DShsgyUak0mr64I6-490x745.png
 

 

I've seen tougher Gym memberships to get out of!!

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5 hours ago, Overread said:

NEVER take mentions in lore to be fact. 

So maybe I should stick with my original plan for Goblinhood and his band of merry squigs.

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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

So maybe I should stick with my original plan for Goblinhood and his band of merry squigs.

Oh they are lots of fun, especially if you give up the idea to be competitive forcing rosters within one battalion. Just mix and match what you like and is pure mayhem. And the rockgut are actually quite good!

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