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As someone with 4k points of DoK I'd obviously be pretty into Morathi being/becoming the main deific figure in Ulgu, I could see a scenario where Malerion is out of the picture (maybe dead, more likely become something more shadow than elf, surpassed care for mortal concerns etc etc) and she is pulling a similar con with Malerion's followers as she does already with the Khainites.  But I do not think that is very likely and, indeed, would be kinda rude to Malerion fans.

I only bring it up because looking at the aelf books right now there's a bit if a (coincidental) pattern.  Most obviously the Lumineth tome is almost half a book, with scope to expand the range with a Tyrion themed release down the line, similarly a Malerion faction could be slotted alongside DoK, and a Kurnothi release rolled in with Sylvaneth, potentially a format similar to the space marine supplements seen in 40k?  Not really a rumour, granted, just idle speculation.

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2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Yes there is. He is revered to as one of the lesser gods that the Sylvaneth worship. And also some others like humans and aelves when they go on hunts. His worship is confined mostly to Ghyran. The rest of the information is almost all about the Kurnothi Hunters and the Wild Hunt. 

That’s one of the good “problems” of AoS, there are so many interesting directions they can go, extend and update existing armies, Kurnothi, Malerion’s forces, Tyrion’s Lumineth, Grungni duradin, all kinds of vampires, stuff no one has on their minds like the insect faction we might see in Underworlds and whatnot.

I’m just happy that finally after 5 years I got “my” army, and no pretty much can relax and see what comes next. 

I completely agree mate. The direction they can take AOS is phenomenal with the amount of foundations they have laid. 

Also having my army finally coming out after all this time is such a momentous moment and leaves me more than satisfied just watching the Mortal Realms expand into ever greatness.

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Maybe Malerion's army will be composed of a few giant deamonic aelf models. Something like SoB. A small army with models that can be allied into other aelf armies.

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On 7/23/2020 at 3:47 PM, Quasistellar said:

My issue with meeting engagements is that it creates extra steps and complications, when generally in a smaller match I’m looking for less complexity. 
 

I am hoping the small 40k missions are actually good and that can maybe be a template for small format AoS missions in the future.

I see the way 40k going is creating more extra steps and complications.  I'm not sure how that is a better template for AoS missions which seemed more straightforward.  I haven't seen any small missions but these quickly lead to BRB missions pretty fast.  AoS had the original simple starter missions.  They weren't great but they got people started.  

There are loads of missions in Skirmish, PtG, campaign books, Battletomes, supplemental support such as WD and in general I've always found them pretty simple and clear for playing.  

On 7/23/2020 at 5:34 PM, Infernalslayer said:

I think the problem with most monsters, like a Ghorgon, is not that they can't hold an objective, but that they can't clear horde units (or chaff) either to make way for your troops to go for the objective.

So most (non-hero) monsters are not good for either role other than be cool looking pieces on the table.

They aren't suppose to hold an objective.  Ghorgons are swingy but they do more than be cool looking pieces on the table.  Perhaps the issue isn't troops vs Monsters here.   Generally breakthrough isn't take and hold purposes.   

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

They aren't suppose to hold an objective.  

I think that's a good point.

Some folks want monsters and heroes to hold objectives and troops to kill stuff. In essence, (not to ascribe views to those who may not hold them) they want all units in the game to do all things. This would allow for some very unbalanced "non-army" armies.

 

I like having different types of units doing different things well. It promotes taking balanced armies instead of 10 Bloodthirster "armies."

Edited by Sleboda
Typo
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1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

I think that's a good point.

Some folks want monsters and heroes to hold objectives and troops to kill stuff. In essence, (not to ascribe views to those who may not hold them) they want all units in the game to do all things. The would allow for some very unbalanced "non-army" armies.

 

I like having different types of units doing different things well. It promotes taking balanced armies instead of 10 Bloodthirster "armies."

This man,.. speaks the truth.

There is a big argument in the Sylvaneth thread about the book being bad vs the player base not knowing how to use it.  Granted,.. both are right but the rules of the game supersede an OP unit.  Know what you are trying to accomplish.  The playerbase who is generally tactically better at the game (not me any more, kids ruined my brain) can make an army work.  The playerbase who fleets from OP new alpha strike then leaves the army when they're OP trick is FAQed will call an army garbage.  

I've had a Ghorgon kill 20 KO troopers (no clue what they were called).  Does that mean the Ghorgon should hold that objective?  no, he should go off and eat more dwarfs.  

I wonder if 9th ed 40k is going to make this more prevalent in our zeitgeist.  That game really changed from 8th to 9th and how to deal with objectives, scoring and  taking them back will happen.  Can you melee off a unit from an objective or shoot it off?  If you do either will you score that objective when you need to?

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42 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I think that's a good point.

Some folks want monsters and heroes to hold objectives and troops to kill stuff. In essence, (not to ascribe views to those who may not hold them) they want all units in the game to do all things. This would allow for some very unbalanced "non-army" armies.

 

I like having different types of units doing different things well. It promotes taking balanced armies instead of 10 Bloodthirster "armies."

The problema for the most part is that it makes taking behemoths more of a liability.  Most of the times you are better off taking another battleline/unit, there is no real incentive to take a monster over a block of 20 guys (of course there are exceptions).

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3 hours ago, Lucentia said:

I only bring it up because looking at the aelf books right now there's a bit if a (coincidental) pattern.  Most obviously the Lumineth tome is almost half a book, with scope to expand the range with a Tyrion themed release down the line, similarly a Malerion faction could be slotted alongside DoK, and a Kurnothi release rolled in with Sylvaneth, potentially a format similar to the space marine supplements seen in 40k?  Not really a rumour, granted, just idle speculation.

That's how I see it happening.

They'll probably release the factions as stand-alone tomes with ally options so they can delve (and hype) further into the new armies that a few years down the line they'll combine those certain factions into one tome to either play together, play separately or interesting mix-and-match themes for their empires or forces in other realms.

Similar to the Orruk Warclans or Mawtribes. Fun too to see how the tome combining also builds on the advancing storyline like how Beastclaws couldn't be with their footslogger brethren in the past because of the Everwinter but now after centuries it's shown how the Beastclaws have mastered using the curse with some control over it which justifies the armies being able to work together.

Seeing stuff like that for why Shadowkin would suddenly work with Melusai because of Morathi's Varanspire intel or why tribes of Kurnothi are closing ranks with the Sylvaneth groves as Alarielle is spreading her power in the realms would make great twists to the ongoing narrative.

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We also technically have a complete DOK temple untouched from the book, Khelt Nar

"Khelt Nar has become the fastest growing of the sects established by Morathi. It began as Ironshard, a single Khainite shrine founded by the High Oracle atop a flat-topped mountain of iron known as the Rothtor. Seeing the potential in that bounteous natural resource, Morathi used powerful sorcery to mould an imposing stronghold from the enormous ferrous precipice, as well as the lands surrounding it.

Despite the layers of shadow magic that obscure the temple-fortress of Khelt Nar, the forces of the Ruinous Powers have located and invaded it  no fewer than six times. Each attack has thus far been thwarted but it  has meant that the war covens of Khelt Nar have developed a hatred of Chaos that far transcends even that of their rival sects. The Khelt Nar have established over two dozen lesser temples all across Ulgu."

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35 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

The problema for the most part is that it makes taking behemoths more of a liability.  Most of the times you are better off taking another battleline/unit, there is no real incentive to take a monster over a block of 20 guys (of course there are exceptions).

The solution is to have the monster be able to threaten those 20 dudes to the point where they need to avoid combat with it. if your monster is going to kill 10-15 models, and the 20 dudes are only going to put a handful of wounds into the monster, there becomes an incentive to take the monster.

Just imagine what the aleguzzler would look like if his club was 2 damage, his headbutt 6, and his kick 3, it would raise his average damage to ~9 against a 4+ save from ~4 damage, plus he has the grab attack. sure he's not going to be holding points, but blobs of infantry will get smashed by it, and even bravery 10 stuff would need inspiring presence to stick together.

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Forgeworld preorders have always been a friday event.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

The solution is to have the monster be able to threaten those 20 dudes to the point where they need to avoid combat with it. if your monster is going to kill 10-15 models, and the 20 dudes are only going to put a handful of wounds into the monster, there becomes an incentive to take the monster.

Just imagine what the aleguzzler would look like if his club was 2 damage, his headbutt 6, and his kick 3, it would raise his average damage to ~9 against a 4+ save from ~4 damage, plus he has the grab attack. sure he's not going to be holding points, but blobs of infantry will get smashed by it, and even bravery 10 stuff would need inspiring presence to stick together.

This is exactly right. Monsters are under powered in AoS. They have fewer wounds than units, usually do less damage, and deteriorate quickly. Not only is an extra block of guys almost always better for the reasons you point out, but monsters simply don't feel right in AoS. They should be something units fear. Sure, they can't hold objectives. But if stated correctly they could be something that is simply awful to engage.

On top of giving them more offensive output, I would give behemoth units more staying power. Maybe something like a 4+ ward save against  no rend attacks and 5+ ward save against rend 1.  Maybe that's too much, but they should be a rock to a normal infantry unit's scissors.

Edited by Yeled
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4 minutes ago, Yeled said:

This is exactly right. Monsters are under powered in AoS. They have fewer wounds than units, usually do less damage, and deteriorate quickly. Not only is an extra block of guys almost always better for the reasons you point out, but monsters simply don't feel right in AoS. They should be something units fear. Sure, they can't hold objectives. But if stated correctly they could be something that is simply awful to engage.

On top of giving them more offensive output, I would give behemoth units more staying power. Maybe something like a 4+ ward save against  no rend attacks and 5+ ward save against rend 1.  Maybe that's too much, but they should be a rock to a normal infantry unit's scissors.

I think that should be dependent on the monster, big expensive tough ones should always be dangerous to blobs, even if they're on the defensive, where cheaper monsters like aleguzzlers and ghorgons need to be screened as they will lose some of their punch if they're struck first and be caught on a weaker profile.

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Posted (edited)

Couldn't resist

49tdxe.jpg

Edited by Carnelian
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2 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

Forgeworld preorders have always been a friday event.

 

2 hours ago, Still-young said:

They always have been. 

Sorry guys been out of the game too long.

1 hour ago, Carnelian said:

Couldn't resist

49tdxe.jpg

This is the best.

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Theoretically Malerion is a real all powerful god while Morathi just an excellent sorceress with demi-god attitude, so while not impossible, logic would want Morathi alone should not be able to take Malerion 1 on 1....

I find Nagash’s death an easier event to pull off and also more likely as it did happen multiple times in the past. It could also further expand Death in interesting directions...

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1 hour ago, alghero81 said:

I find Nagash’s death an easier event to pull off and also more likely as it did happen multiple times in the past. It could also further expand Death in interesting directions...

Nagash gets bullied enough, I think the guy deserves a break.

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A bit off topic, but anyone know when the GHB20 FAQ will be out? 

I thought that it's normally on the Tuesday, after 2 weeks of it's general release date (roughly 17 days). 

Anyone know the reason why it's not released yet? (And busy with 40k is not an acceptable answer 😂

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12 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

The problema for the most part is that it makes taking behemoths more of a liability.  Most of the times you are better off taking another battleline/unit, there is no real incentive to take a monster over a block of 20 guys (of course there are exceptions).

Isn’t that a problem with the monster? Not the core mechanics of capturing objectives? 

Same goes for other expensive support models. Nobody has a problem with taking a hurricanum even though it’s only one body. 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Isn’t that a problem with the monster? Not the core mechanics of capturing objectives? 

Same goes for other expensive support models. Nobody has a problem with taking a hurricanum even though it’s only one body. 

Not really, i would say it is a problem across the board.

Lets say you for an example can get a Monster or 20 soldiers for the same cost. Usually here is what happens:

- The soldiers got a larger footprint, more wounds, scale better with buffs and probably deal more damage .In some instances, models can be ressurected.

- The monster counts as 1, scale down with damage (usually after 3 or 4 dmg) and only gets a CA or Artifact if Hero (and unamed)

 

Of course some models as the Hurricanum have strong traits that make then worth taking, but i would say there is more "bad" behemoths than good ones, specially non hero ones.

I am not a professional player, game designer or anything but i belive there should be a small revamp on the monster concept of AoS. Maybe giving a monster a number of "capture bodies" equal to its current number. Or make monster stats decrease slower, who knows?

I am just a dude who likes to field by monsters 🤣

 

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2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

A bit off topic, but anyone know when the GHB20 FAQ will be out? 

I thought that it's normally on the Tuesday, after 2 weeks of it's general release date (roughly 17 days). 

Anyone know the reason why it's not released yet? (And busy with 40k is not an acceptable answer 😂

GW aren't back running on a normal keel yet, quite a few members of staff are still doing work from home I believe so not surprised it's not out quite yet.  Within the UK, the event/tournament scene is still closed too, so there's likely to be less feedback going in than normal that could also have an effect.

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1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

Not really, i would say it is a problem across the board.

Lets say you for an example can get a Monster or 20 soldiers for the same cost. Usually here is what happens:

- The soldiers got a larger footprint, more wounds, scale better with buffs and probably deal more damage .In some instances, models can be ressurected.

- The monster counts as 1, scale down with damage (usually after 3 or 4 dmg) and only gets a CA or Artifact if Hero (and unamed)

 

Of course some models as the Hurricanum have strong traits that make then worth taking, but i would say there is more "bad" behemoths than good ones, specially non hero ones.

I am not a professional player, game designer or anything but i belive there should be a small revamp on the monster concept of AoS. Maybe giving a monster a number of "capture bodies" equal to its current number. Or make monster stats decrease slower, who knows?

I am just a dude who likes to field by monsters 🤣

 

Maybe giving them the stomp again.

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