The Rumour Thread

[Skreech Verminking]

6 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

200-300 models on the table... it's just that nobody actually does that (except maybe @Skreech Verminking, you absolute mad lad).

I must be, considering my next list that I’m using has less then 200models

Edited August 11, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Charly2912]

17 hours ago, badnewsbeers said:

Which armies are the next to be abandoned do we think?

Legion of azgorh 

[Nos]

3 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I was responding much more to @PJetski than to you, for what it's worth!

Your problem with elite units is honestly a pretty broad problem with AOS in general and not just specifically DoK. Points costs have been driven down to the point where you can easily put 100-150 "elite" models on the board if you really want to in many factions. The limiting factor for most players is not points cost but practicality. You don't see the 200-300 model true horde armies (even though those builds might actually be quite good) because you don't want to paint that many, you don't want to lug that many around, it's hard to fit that many in your deployment zone, and it takes way too long to move everything (especially under tournament time constraints).

So instead you see most players sticking to 50-100 models with maybe 150 at the very top end.

As a result, your 70-90 Witch Aelf builds look like a horde army. But a real Skaven or Goblin horde would probably put 200-300 models on the table... it's just that nobody actually does that (except maybe @Skreech Verminking, you absolute mad lad).

To me the problem is less about DoK and more about the overall point scaling in AOS.

With respect to your other points: it's not necessarily true that a high agility, short range fighting style would only work in a spread out "warrior" type formation. You can do a lot with precision and agility even in confined spaces. But I'll 100% agree that it doesn't really make sense given the frenzied, berserker slant to the fluff which certainly does match a warrior culture military much more strongly.

It's possible that their frenzy blocks their pain receptors without interfering with combat-relevant sensory perception, but I haven't read the fluff closely enough to know if that scans or not.

 

______________________________

 

@alghero81 that would be amazing.

Very thoughtful and well worded reply, thank you.

It's quite sad as you say re the model count thing. One of the things I and I think most Warhammer players loved most was the spectacle of a regiment with all its character and panoply of war.

I think AOS was very clever in going the other way by allowing a regiment to be an equally characterful grouping of a just a few,  more heroic individuals, and making the spectacle and variety be about the army as a whole for basically the same investment required of two warhammer  regiments. Much like early Warhammer in fact. A glorious stew of multiple aspects of an army and its culture. It also meant that the horde faction looked even more so.

But increasingly it's just become Warhammer with round bases in respect to troop numbers and units of 30 which was rare even in Warhammer before 8th edition are pretty much standard in AOS.

Except with the added nonsense that while the rules favour large numbers in that one aspect they also still treat models within them as individuals as well, so you have these massive formations but they dont have flanks or weight and are stretched out in stupid 60 inch conga chains and the like.  Or conversely, you have hordes of 60 skeletons being impeded by one bird etc. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Nos

[JackStreicher]

Gordrak‘s God-Beast-Battering-Ram?

[El Antiguo Guardián]

Maybe some Ossiarch beast of the upcoming WU or WQ new boxes?

[alghero81]

1 hour ago, EccentricCircle said:

I don't think fyreslayers have had a battleforce have they? Certainly not in the last three or so years that I can (semi) clearly remember.

Wait... why are we speculating about christmas battleforce boxes during a heat wave in August! That's just wrong folks.

So went back in time and gathered the battleforces released, in brackets the latest battletome release for that faction:

2019: Stormcast (Jul-18), Nighthaunt (Jul-18), Gloomspite Gitz (Jan-19), Skaven (Feb-19)

2018: Seraphon (Oct-15), Slaves to Darkness (N/A), Daughters of Khaine (Mar-18), Idoneth Deepkin (Apr-18)

2017: Legions of Nagash (N/A), Stormcast Eternals (Feb-17), Tzeentch (Jan-17), Kharadron Overlords (Apr-17)

2016: Khorne (Sep-15), Sylvaneth (Jul-16), Ironjawz (May-16), Stormcast Eternals (Mar-16)

So I was wrong, they can create battleforces for armies that got a release in the first months of the same year (recently GG, DoK, IDK). Usually there is a battletome in the same year of just before (with some exceptions), but nothing of this gives us a hint as 19 battletomes were published between Q1 2018 and Q2 2019. I still believe Lumineth and SoB are too close to the end of the year to get a box, even considering the delay Lumineth would not have been fully released before May probably. And SoB even later.

My money goes on Ossiarch and Ogors.

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, alghero81 said:

Why can’t be a mega pet for the mega gargants? We have colossal squig already so we can have something else for the Gargants or a non-FW colossal squig! 😂 

I was also thinking about battleforces and I reckon Ossiarch will get one as historically the new army got one the year after their release like Nighthaunt and Idoneth. Lumineth is too early, it will be next year.

A Mega Gargants pet would probably be some kind of immense Hound. Gargants are quite similar to Humans but well...Gargantuan, so one would think mans best friend would also be a Gargants.

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

Gordrak‘s God-Beast-Battering-Ram?

This is a very good idea.

[Ggom]

3 hours ago, Nos said:

But increasingly it's just become Warhammer with round bases in respect to troop numbers and units of 30 which was rare even in Warhammer before 8th edition are pretty much standard in AOS.

Except with the added nonsense that while the rules favour large numbers in that one aspect they also still treat models within them as individuals as well, so you have these massive formations but they dont have flanks or weight and are stretched out in stupid 60 inch conga chains and the like.  Or conversely, you have horses of 60 skeletons being impeded by one bird etc. 

Hear, hear! Conga lines are unthematic and (I think) the rules should provide guardrails that don’t encourage this as the strategic play.

Big unit blobs are likely also the bane of painters who want to play. Painting the same dude 30x2 times is pretty boring, unless you are really into the meditation thing or “lower the bar.” It doesn’t matter if you are a pro painter or new to it, it’s extremely tiring painting the same model to the best of your abilities over and over again to the same level. It is unfortunate that many battalions are so restrictive around unit choices and encourage spamming blocks of the same thing. 

I would love to see:

• More viable unit choices within factions 
• More flexible battalions
• Less incentive for giant blobs of units across the board. Sure, allow it, even encourage it for select factions, but maybe not for 90% of them
• Rules that don’t lead to the evolution of conga lines in play
   

Edited August 11, 2020 by Ggom

[swarmofseals]

My very random predictions for battleforces:

OBR, Slaanesh, Fyreslayers, Mawtribes and a dark horse candidate of Cities of Sigmar.

[Neverchosen]

5 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

My very random predictions for battleforces:

OBR, Slaanesh, Fyreslayers, Mawtribes and a dark horse candidate of Cities of Sigmar.

I would be happy for literally any of those choices. 

I would love it if the battleforces were able to provide the option to help build something with greater unit diversity than what is available in the start collecting sets. So I think a Mawtribes box focusing on Gutbusters or a Cities box focusing on Freeguild, Wanderers or Ironweld would be all be really cool options.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Neverchosen

[Kasper]

9 hours ago, Ggom said:

Hear, hear! Conga lines are unthematic and (I think) the rules should provide guardrails that don’t encourage this as the strategic play.

They already have done this with the introduction of “wholly within” buffs/auras/command abilities though. Whenever a new book comes out, largely all the rules are updated to a longer range by wholly within instead of just within. 

[Skreech Verminking]

21 minutes ago, Kasper said:

They already have done this with the introduction of “wholly within” buffs/auras/command abilities though. Whenever a new book comes out, largely all the rules are updated to a longer range by wholly within instead of just within. 

With all those insane buffs some armies, have a congaline of 40 meathsields, is sometimes needed to keep the rest of the army save.

charging witch elves or buffed ardboy’z will literally kill over a hundred models in a single turn if you let them do that.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[EMMachine]

9 hours ago, Ggom said:

Hear, hear! Conga lines are unthematic and (I think) the rules should provide guardrails that don’t encourage this as the strategic play.

Big unit blobs are likely also the bane of painters who want to play. Painting the same dude 30x2 times is pretty boring, unless you are really into the meditation thing or “lower the bar.” It doesn’t matter if you are a pro painter or new to it, it’s extremely tiring painting the same model to the best of your abilities over and over again to the same level. It is unfortunate that many battalions are so restrictive around unit choices and encourage spamming blocks of the same thing. 

I would love to see:

• More viable unit choices within factions 
• More flexible battalions
• Less incentive for giant blobs of units across the board. Sure, allow it, even encourage it for select factions, but maybe not for 90% of them
• Rules that don’t lead to the evolution of conga lines in play
   

23 minutes ago, Kasper said:

They already have done this with the introduction of “wholly within” buffs/auras/command abilities though. Whenever a new book comes out, largely all the rules are updated to a longer range by wholly within instead of just within. 

Let's see if AoS 3.0 has the same rule as WH40k 9. Edition, that larger units (need to models next to them to be in coherrency). In 40k it is when you have 6 or more models in the unit, but many units in 40k are just 5-10 Models.

 

[alghero81]

10 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

My very random predictions for battleforces:

OBR, Slaanesh, Fyreslayers, Mawtribes and a dark horse candidate of Cities of Sigmar.

I was thinking Slaanesh as well but Wrath and Rapture was not a great success and not many of the new models (heroes) would fit a battle force so the models on the battle force would match that old duel box... not sure... fyreslayers is a strong candidate. Cities is so varied that I don’t see it feasible but would be great

[Bayul]

12 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

a dark horse candidate of Cities of Sigmar.

What does that mean?

Oh, that's an english idiom for an unexpected choice. Sounded like an Anvilgard box with some Scourgerunner Chariots and Dark Riders.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bayul

[Sleboda]

14 hours ago, Ggom said:

Painting the same dude 30x2 times is pretty boring, unless you are really into the meditation thing

That's a matter of opinion. While I do enjoy the "therapy" of painting the same guy 70 times, the main thing I like about single-pose, one-part models is how it makes an army look like an army and not just a loose band of like-minded fighters.

I respect that you find it boring, but for some of us, the loss of the option to get 50-200 of the same exact guy and paint them all is a real bummer in an otherwise exciting hobby.

[NkfPanda]

15 hours ago, Ggom said:

Big unit blobs are likely also the bane of painters who want to play. Painting the same dude 30x2 times is pretty boring, unless you are really into the meditation thing or “lower the bar.”

You hit the bar 100% here. There is the odd guy/girl who is absolutely mad and enjoys sitting there painting the same model 60-120 times but that same person probably has full on conversations with themselves and maybe their models too and lives in the attic at your local game store 🙃. Looking into DOK right now and the thought of someone painting 60+ witch aelves is insane...balanced tomes prevent all work and no fun making nerds dull boys. 

[michu]

7 minutes ago, NkfPanda said:

You hit the bar 100% here. There is the odd guy/girl who is absolutely mad and enjoys sitting there painting the same model 60-120 times but that same person probably has full on conversations with themselves and maybe their models too and lives in the attic at your local game store 🙃. Looking into DOK right now and the thought of someone painting 60+ witch aelves is insane...balanced tomes prevent all work and no fun making nerds dull boys. 

Contrast. It's good. Especially for flesh.

[Sleboda]

29 minutes ago, NkfPanda said:

There is the odd guy/girl who is absolutely mad and enjoys sitting there painting the same model 60-120 times but that same person probably has full on conversations with themselves and maybe their models too and lives in the attic at your local game store 🙃

Maybe show something close to a little respect for people who are not the same as you.

Calling people you've never met "absolutely mad"  and implying they are socially inept is really uncalled for.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Sleboda

[NkfPanda]

6 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Maybe show something close to a little respect for people who are not the same as you.

Calling people you've never met "absolutely mad"  and implying they are socially inept is really uncalled for.

Maybe be a little less insecure? We know no one lives in an attic at the hobby store and the last line was in reference to the shining for emphasizing how painting the same mini can be maddening (hopefully that word didn't upset you as well). I didn't think you were socially inept until that comment to be honest. But this is for rumours I guess and not jokes or neckbearding around so we should probably end with agree to disagree.

[Clan's Cynic]

13 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

My very random predictions for battleforces:

OBR, Slaanesh, Fyreslayers, Mawtribes and a dark horse candidate of Cities of Sigmar.

Ossiarchs I think are a given. Stormcast will inevitably get one.

I think we'll see Maggotkin as I don't believe they've been in a Battleforce yet and have a decent range,, but Slaanesh is a good contender.

Fyreslayers could happen, but their range is so limited I'd not be surprised if they didn't see one.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Sleboda said:

"absolutely mad" 

Madness is the first step to victory!

or so the skaven saying goes😋

[Sleboda]

8 hours ago, NkfPanda said:

I didn't think you were socially inept until that comment to be honest.

Implying that now you do.

 

It's not about me, personally, being insecure. I'm content. I'm happy. I just thought your casual disregard for mental health and social awkwardness was off-putting and potentially damaging to those who genuinely do suffer from these difficulties.

 

We try hard to be friendly and inclusive here, and your flippant remarks fly in the face of that.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Sleboda

[Sonnenspeer]

@Sleboda and @NkfPanda 

I  normaly enjoy your posts here and realy hope you dont start a fight! 

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

That's enough of that...

@NkfPanda please check what you type before posting, calling other members inept or implying they may be mad isn't acceptable. or what we expect from members.