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7 minutes ago, Mattrulesok said:

This 100%

The fact that they are having to produce these sets made to order at increased cost to avoid a massive pr disaster is telling. 

Also its worth remembering this is a starter set, they aren't big money spinners per box, they make money by introducing people to the game/armies and the real money is made on the non discounted units and special models plus all the paints, rule books tomes/codex accessories etc that come after. 

 

GW didn't make any money when I got back into warhammer and i purchased the storm strike set. They made money from me purchasing the other 2k points worth of units for my sce and 1k in units for my wife's NH, plus paints, battletomes and the new generals handbook and then I got into Seraphon... 

GW knows what makes money better than you. That's  not a matter of opinion. It's a proven, demonstrable fact that GW are excellent at making money and increasing profits. 

They are making more money out of Indomitus than originally forecast as well. This is another fact. 

If they are needing to make things to meet demand, this is a good thing, and this is another fact.

They arent going to be pricing things at a loss to save face. GW are going to make lots of money off Indomitus. 

Also quite why you think people buying a boxed game in record numbers *wont* equate to more people graduating to buy all the supplementary products you list is curious. 

Bottom line- GW are selling tons of stuff, mote than they expected, and more people will buy more stuff on top of that, meaning this has been a very successful product launch in the areas that count most to a buisness- profit. 

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15 minutes ago, Nos said:

GW knows what makes money better than you. That's  not a matter of opinion. It's a proven, demonstrable fact that GW are excellent at making money and increasing profits. 

They are making more money out of Indomitus than originally forecast as well. This is another fact. 

If they are needing to make things to meet demand, this is a good thing, and this is another fact.

They arent going to be pricing things at a loss to save face. GW are going to make lots of money off Indomitus. 

Also quite why you think people buying a boxed game in record numbers *wont* equate to more people graduating to buy all the supplementary products you list is curious. 

Bottom line- GW are selling tons of stuff, mote than they expected, and more people will buy more stuff on top of that, meaning this has been a very successful product launch in the areas that count most to a buisness- profit. 

*You realise just because you say "that's a fact" at the end of something doesn't make it so?

*I never said they were making a loss, I said they produced made to order product at increased cost. Creating anything made to order vs a mass produced production run will cost more, that's an actual fact. 

*I also never claimed people wouldn't be buying more after buying the boxed game, the point was every missed sale of a box set isn't missing £80 worth of sales, it's missing potentially hundreds if not thousands of potential sales. 

*no one's arguing that GW aren't making money just that they could have done a better job here, we're all aware that profit is king but businesses have more measures and KPI's than just gross profit. Thing like engagement and retention are supremely important and are major factors in why GW had so many issues in the past. 

 

Either way I look forward to you misquoting me and moving the goalposts again. 

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Mod Notice 

Ok lets cool off a little from the armchair business assessment and take a step back. Lets enjoy the good news that for those of us who want Indomitus we have a greater chance of getting it and move forward from there. There's no sense slicing up what happened and what might have happened a million ways. What has happened has happened and in the end everyone is still coming out on top. 

 

 

Though I realise its something tricky to say lets get back to AoS rumours, lets at least get back to AoS ;)

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30 minutes ago, Overread said:

Mod Notice 

Ok lets cool off a little from the armchair business assessment and take a step back. Lets enjoy the good news that for those of us who want Indomitus we have a greater chance of getting it and move forward from there. There's no sense slicing up what happened and what might have happened a million ways. What has happened has happened and in the end everyone is still coming out on top. 

 

 

Though I realise its something tricky to say lets get back to AoS rumours, lets at least get back to AoS ;)

Sons of Behemat!! What release date are we realistically looking at here? August or September? July is going to be dominated by 9th but will August be as well?

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10 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Sons of Behemat!! What release date are we realistically looking at here? August or September? July is going to be dominated by 9th but will August be as well?

If I had to make a guess, Space Marines will in August and Lumineth will back end it. Necrons will follow in early September and then Sons. If GW want to milk the Lumineth boxes more, it'll be Space Marines, then Sons, then Necrons and Lumineth. 

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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I've a feeling GW will want to get Necron and Marine codex out fast after Indomitus. So my money would be on them being in either a joint release or one week after the other right after Indomitus. That's assuming they update the codex, if not then "codex upgrade/supplement" versions. 

After that its a toss up - Sons is a "small" release, but Luminoth is already out in the wild and has fans eager to spend money. Either one could come first or jointly as the next AoS release.

There's also going to be at least one Necromunda release for the delayed Escher book and models. AoS also has the Underworld and Warcry releases to come as well and the could slip in at any time. 

Star of August I'd wager is still going to be 40K; end of August Escher then moving on September might be a shift back to AoS

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4 hours ago, Nos said:

They have a monopoly, so it dosent matter they're not a small business, so they can afford it.

Not singling you out Nos, it's just a good quick jumping off point.

 

We really should all nip the monopoly talk in the bud. GW has no more of a monopoly on Warhammer than McDonald's has on Big Macs.

 

People toss that word around - that highly negative and legally important word - without knowing what it is, and it's irresponsible.

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6 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Thanks mate, but I am not sure that is validating since WSB has been known to forget stuff and make mistakes. Like they already did on the new updates. Note, according to WSB we can no longer pick deathlords as allies. Thankfully the GHB disagree.

I could be totally off on this but if I remember correctly they explicitly stated somewhere that the WD stuff is legal for matched play, so barring an explicit statement that something isn't legal in matched play I'd expect that you can keep using it.

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4 hours ago, Mattrulesok said:

Also its worth remembering this is a starter set,

They made the point, repeatedly, that it's absolutely not a starter set. It should not analyzed as one.

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9 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

They made the point, repeatedly, that it's absolutely not a starter set. It should not analyzed as one.

Mods asked us to drop it so I'm not going to argue semantics with you mate. 

 

 

So who's hoping Deepkin are getting a giant crab in the future? 

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1 hour ago, Mattrulesok said:

Mods asked us to drop it so I'm not going to argue semantics with you mate. 

 

 

So who's hoping Deepkin are getting a giant crab in the future? 

Semantics and pedantic rants if changed to physical exercise and positive thinking will equal a happier life - Volturnos

 

I would lovvvve anything for my fishy boiz! 😍  I would have been happier for a huge points drop for my murder turtle and Eidolon over new models. For such an old book we are doing fine but I wouldn't be mad if a new battletome came out this year. Maybe a new tome and Embailor model. Or make Lotann not suck.

Edited by NkfPanda

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8 hours ago, Nos said:

They're loyal because GW has worked out how to get it to them.

Nope. Simply the best models and biggest playerbase. Also most of us were hooked when we were young.

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7 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

Sons of Behemat!! What release date are we realistically looking at here? August or September? July is going to be dominated by 9th but will August be as well?

After aos2 gw released the Stormcast and Nighthaunt battletome on the same week, and then gradually released their models alongside specialist games stuff over the next few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same again. 

There have been some pretty widespread rumours that the rest of the Lumineth are coming in September. The million dollar question is whether the sons of Behemat manage to squeeze into August or of they have to wait until the end of September. 

My money is on the latter. I think we will see the remaining underworlds warbands and the scions of the flame in August, Lumineth in September, Sons on pre order at the end of September and new warcry in October. 

I am quite curious when we will next see an AOS preview. It has now been a full 3 months since the last AoS preview and there isn't one on the horizon. 

I think gw delayed the AOS faq on purpose in order to give us something to look forward to because it's going to be 40k centric for a while. 

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19 hours ago, Overread said:

Honestly I can see GW moving away from single box starter packs. Consider that:

1) An actual beginner isn't best served by a starter set. Sure it has rules and dice and counters, but it has two armies in it. A beginner only needs one so instantly they've got stuff they "don't want/need". This means they've either got to find a friend to split it with (not everyone will join with a friend) or try and find someone in the game club that they might not know all that well yet. 

2) There are only two armies on offer. This means that for the set to be worth anything to you you have got to want one of those two armies. If you've a friend joining in you've got to not only want one of the armies but your friend must want the other one; otherwise someone will be less than satisfied

3) In the past GW has put unique models in to the starter sets and then hit issues where the starter is kept in production and GW never gets around to retail releases of those models; As a result instead of beginners buying it, current gamers are the ones buying up the starters for those unique models for their own armies. Heck Indomitus only lacks card rulers and some dice and a quick-start-guide to make it a normal starter and who is buying it - not beginners but legions of current gamers. People who, in theory, shouldn't be the target market, but they are for it because it contains all the new shiny models at discount. 

 

In the end I can see GW moving toward perhaps producing a starter pack that has rules, dice, counters, clippers glue etc.. inside at discount and then alongside that having people choose the "getting started" set they want from an army. This means that you still get the same discount, but instead of being slaved to a single double pack; you get to pick from ANY army in the game. You don't have to find a friend; you don't have to sell off extras; you don't have to feel left out because you don't want one of the only two armies in the starter. Instead you can pick from any faction, you get the rules and glue and such and you still pick up a codex/battletome as normal. So for the customer they might spend the same or a bit less, but they get far more for their money.

It also has the benefit of not focusing a whole edition on two armies, instead it spreads the "load" of new gamers out over the entire range, which might well lead to some smoothing of the dispersal of armies played. Yes GW 

 

It would not surprise me if this is the path GW takes. Indomitus is basically just like all the other two army packs we've seen, only it contains all new models not just a few and it contains the rulebook for the new edition as well. Just keep going with the limited discount duel packs and then focus newbies into the getting started packs. 

Yeah I mean that makes sense to me. Less extra devalued models floating around too.

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Is there any rumour about The Old World? We missed a lot of Monday Previews with the Covid-19 thing. Hope to see a bit more communication between the company and the players, even if it's only to puch a bit the hype.

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7 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

If I had to make a guess, Space Marines will in August and Lumineth will back end it. Necrons will follow in early September and then Sons. If GW want to milk the Lumineth boxes more, it'll be Space Marines, then Sons, then Necrons and Lumineth. 

Hopefully they do the latter!!

7 hours ago, Overread said:

I've a feeling GW will want to get Necron and Marine codex out fast after Indomitus. So my money would be on them being in either a joint release or one week after the other right after Indomitus. That's assuming they update the codex, if not then "codex upgrade/supplement" versions. 

After that its a toss up - Sons is a "small" release, but Luminoth is already out in the wild and has fans eager to spend money. Either one could come first or jointly as the next AoS release.

There's also going to be at least one Necromunda release for the delayed Escher book and models. AoS also has the Underworld and Warcry releases to come as well and the could slip in at any time. 

Star of August I'd wager is still going to be 40K; end of August Escher then moving on September might be a shift back to AoS

I'm hoping they drop the Sons in August or at least the same week as the Necromunda Warband, for all intents and purpose it's basically the same size as a Warband release.

26 minutes ago, Chikout said:

After aos2 gw released the Stormcast and Nighthaunt battletome on the same week, and then gradually released their models alongside specialist games stuff over the next few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same again. 

There have been some pretty widespread rumours that the rest of the Lumineth are coming in September. The million dollar question is whether the sons of Behemat manage to squeeze into August or of they have to wait until the end of September. 

My money is on the latter. I think we will see the remaining underworlds warbands and the scions of the flame in August, Lumineth in September, Sons on pre order at the end of September and new warcry in October. 

I am quite curious when we will next see an AOS preview. It has now been a full 3 months since the last AoS preview and there isn't one on the horizon. 

I think gw delayed the AOS faq on purpose in order to give us something to look forward to because it's going to be 40k centric for a while. 

I really hope we dont have to wait until October, that would be a 5 month delay on the Sons if they were truly suppose to release in May, though at least it wasnt an on purpose delay more so the world has to deal with its issues first which of course is the paramount issue.

On the topic of Previews I dont think AOS will get one until the Lumineth, Sons, Warcry and Underworlds Warbands that have already been teased are released. So it could very well be October by that point and they may even decide to stop Previews at that point as they may have caught up on most of their release schedule and hope that 2021s events go ahead. 

17 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Is there any rumour about The Old World? We missed a lot of Monday Previews with the Covid-19 thing. Hope to see a bit more communication between the company and the players, even if it's only to puch a bit the hype.

I think we wont hear anything solid about the Old World until next year. GW has to play catch up at the moment and they already did say it was years away at the time.

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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Nope. Simply the best models and biggest playerbase. Also most of us were hooked when we were young.

Yes, exactly. They continue to make the best models. They dont fall out of the sky. They make that product, which is what people want, and pay increasing sums year on year for. 

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Not sure is this is the right place to ask, but have the mercenary companies been dropped in GHB2020?

I can't seem to find them on the warscroll builder thingy...

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41 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Hopefully they do the latter!!

I'm hoping they drop the Sons in August or at least the same week as the Necromunda Warband, for all intents and purpose it's basically the same size as a Warband release.

I really hope we dont have to wait until October, that would be a 5 month delay on the Sons if they were truly suppose to release in May, though at least it wasnt an on purpose delay more so the world has to deal with its issues first which of course is the paramount issue.

 

The trouble is that we know from an original flyer that 40k is launching a month late. Since gw was closed for 2 months it means 40k jumped the queue by a month, It has probably pulled the marine and Necron releases along with it, so anything that was originally intended to arrive before 40k now has to wait until 9th edition, the new marines and the new necrons have come out. It means we are going to have a long wait for those AOS releases. 

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44 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Hopefully they do the latter!!

Looking forward to them as well, at least to get 1 big guy for my StD army, they even show that in the new GHB on images, however no info on how they fit in as allies/mercs yet, I need to know! 

I can see a problem with people wanting to get into the army as a whole, unless GW pulls some kind of stunt, it looks like their stunted factories will have major issues with enough of the small gargant kits, they are already sold out as is everywhere.

We can only hope they make some kind of 3 gargant Sons kit and surprise everyone with that and a decent value, that would be sweet ;)

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36 minutes ago, hwd48 said:

Not sure is this is the right place to ask, but have the mercenary companies been dropped in GHB2020?

I can't seem to find them on the warscroll builder thingy...

They were not in it (I heard). Losing them from the builder is a bit disheartening, it was a nice idea.

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1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

They were not in it (I heard). Losing them from the builder is a bit disheartening, it was a nice idea.

Yeah and really annoying for those of us who, only a year ago, loved the idea and spent a wad of cash on some expensive resin blood knights..... grumble grumble etc etc

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16 minutes ago, hwd48 said:

Yeah and really annoying for those of us who, only a year ago, loved the idea and spent a wad of cash on some expensive resin blood knights..... grumble grumble etc etc

Well, they did discontinue the plastic set most often used to kitbash to blood knights for cheap (dragon princes) right after the previous GHB. As well as the General, Cannon and Organ gun, also in mercs.

Nothing of which is really helping their case.

Here's me hoping for you that Blood Knights will at least remain in AoS in some form.

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Yea

3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Well, they did discontinue the plastic set most often used to kitbash to blood knights for cheap (dragon princes) right after the previous GHB. As well as the General, Cannon and Organ gun, also in mercs.

Nothing of which is really helping their case.

Here's me hoping for you that Blood Knights will at least remain in AoS in some form.

Me too! If not they are models i have wanted to paint since I first saw them back in the mists of time so at least theres that!

 

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1 hour ago, Nos said:

Yes, exactly. They continue to make the best models. They dont fall out of the sky. They make that product, which is what people want, and pay increasing sums year on year for. 

Yeah and the art/illustrations/fiction etc to support it- look how well they've built AoS.

On future releases I'd hope we see some Warcry/Underworlds previews soon after the 40k set hits for a breather! I'd say Necrons and Marines will follow after Indomitus, I think Sons would be a good release in-between all the 40k stuff with the rest of the lumineth coming later [September sounds right]. 

But yeah really interested and hopeful that Warcry war bands will be interesting [not to take away from the great releases for Necrons/Lumineth/Giants- they just aren't my thing]. I thought the first wave of kits were really nice models but I'm not into chaos at all, id be tempted to collect other factions war bands though, ideally I'd love a dwarf war band of some kind [reimagined rangers!] or Kurnothi, but the Khainite war band looks very nice already..

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