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10 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Should we not get a Pre Order announcement this Sunday? Or am I misunderstanding as per usual Haha

Well hopefully that means an August release for Sons.

Nope, we got our Sunday Pre-Order info today, its early. 

Now this doesn't mean that GW couldn't sneak some extra stuff in, but I'd wager it will all be focused on 9th edition alone. They want 2 weeks pre-order so I'd be surprised if there's anything more than BL books in the week between .

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, michu said:

I don't understand? Except Chaos Familiars, all of those are FW models and were never in GA book. Mistweaver also doesn't count as she was released after GA books. So which GA book-only units are still in production?

Sorry, I don't have the GA books, I thought that, since Siah and Shard never were in any other alliance than Order, they'd be in that book. I also haven't looked everywhere hunting for stuff that may have been discontinued recently.

If the GA Order is no longer an option, it's still unplayable.

GW is dropping stuff left and right (or relegating them to compendium, which is the same), and I don't feel the need to keep up with that.

Edited by zilberfrid

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10 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

If the GA Order is no longer an option, it's still unplayable.

That is untrue. You mistook recently the Coalition Matrix (that is only for team play) for scrapping the GA rules. No, they are still here. They are not in GHB2020 (and TBH in GHB 2019 and 2018) because they are in the Core Book. Old GA books didn't even have GA allegiance abilities. They were introduced in GHB2016. On year after those books.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, michu said:

That is untrue. You mistook recently the Coalition Matrix (that is only for team play) for scrapping the GA rules. No, they are still here. They are not in GHB2020 (and TBH in GHB 2019 and 2018) because they are in the Core Book. Old GA books didn't even have GA allegiance abilities. They were introduced in GHB2016. On year after those books.

Okay, I didn't know, I assumed the GA book had GA allegiance abilities. I've only been in the hobby for a bit more than a year.

Last year saw over two warscrolls per month disappear.

They can't keep that up, obviously, but if the "no models, goto compendium status" still holds up, we're looking at 18 FW warscrolls lost, Familiars, 6 Greenskins, Shard, and 33 (if I counted correctly)  casualties of July. Excluding different options, like General with a sensible loadout, of course.

That would bring it to 57, so just a bit less than 5 per month, and more than Bretonnia and Tomb kings combined.

Excuse me if I am not convinced by GW's never spoken commitment to armies (or do you have a link where they state they do?).

Edited by zilberfrid

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48 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Excuse me if I am not convinced by GW's never spoken commitment to armies (or do you have a link where they state they do?).

Lol 😂 

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Unless I've missed an announcement, isn't it only speculation that the discontinued stuff will no longer have points. They've still been including points for Tomb Kings years after they stopped selling them.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Unless I've missed an announcement, isn't it only speculation that the discontinued stuff will no longer have points. They've still been including points for Tomb Kings years after they stopped selling them.

It was stated they'd go to Legends (and no longer maintained from there), though the recently deceased haven't been enshrined there yet.

Though technically in GA order you can field something like Freeguild Archers, there is nothing that supports them because keywords mismatch.

If you have a Freeguild General that isn't on foot with a greatsword, it no longer has rules at all.

Edited by zilberfrid

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Its been 5 years. If you're not comfortable playing one of the 20+ armies with a battletome maybe aos isn't the game for you. 

Most people are fine with using old models as stand ins if you love them that much. Just make sure they are similar and on the right base.

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1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

18 FW warscrolls lost, Familiars, 6 Greenskins, Shard, and 33 (if I counted correctly)  casualties of July. Excluding different options, like General with a sensible loadout, of course.

FW is different problem. They constantly drop units for 40k and 30k without warning. 

July was announced earlier. Reason? Mostly redundancy, too much warscrolls in one book (now CoS have slightly more units than ScE; still, more units than ScE!), old sculpts and Lumineth.

And familiars? Really? Losing those ancient sculpts (I think they were fighting for the title of "the oldest sculpt" with Ragnar Blackmane") is a reason to expect more squatting? They even didn't feel warhammery enough and were useless.

And I still don't understand how all those lost units that never got a battletome or were dropped for preparation of a battletome are a reason to think that a faction with a battletome will get squatted. With the former, GW didn't invest anything. They just were there and when GW decided that they are not going to produce them they're gone. lWith CoS they commissioned new artwork, short stories from @JReynolds and the rules thmeselves. You're not going to do that for something you don't care for. why they didn't get terrain or endless spells? Designers have only so much time and they were working on other factions. Remember that during 40k 8th ed most armies also got nothing. It's not a sign of anything.

11 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

They've still been including points for Tomb Kings years after they stopped selling them.

Not anymore. Tomb King points are still from 2017.

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6 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Its been 5 years. If you're not comfortable playing one of the 20+ armies with a battletome maybe aos isn't the game for you. 

Most people are fine with using old models as stand ins if you love them that much. Just make sure they are similar and on the right base.

Yeah, perhaps it's best to take a new shot at leaving. TGA and the CoS WhatsApp are the only places with Warhammer stuff I didn't quit yet.

AoS isn't a game that filled me with confidence of longevity.

As for playability, somewhere deep in https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/ is a bit where they state that the 40K Legends bits are not for competetive play, and AoS will get the same treatment.

So goodbye.

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5 hours ago, michu said:

Can you stop? It gets annoying. Nothing with a battletome will get scrapped.

I'll quote you on that in a year and we shall see. It's almost certain giving the new lumineth tome that cities will not be around much longer.

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Soul bound proves as well cities will be very very different in the near future. Every class and character in that book has a model available right now on the gw website expect the human sigmar warpriest.  It's not long before order humans stop existing in AOS. 

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10 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

Soul bound proves as well cities will be very very different in the near future. Every class and character in that book has a model available right now on the gw website expect the human sigmar warpriest.  It's not long before order humans stop existing in AOS. 

Humans won't stop existing, though I don't think the General and Warpriest existing in Soulbound ensures the survival of their models. It's a product made by a different company.

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38 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

So goodbye.

Wait a bit longer. I think the illusion of the lack of longevity stems from the fact that for 5 years we've been in a "cleanup step". Basically there was a bit of chaos caused by transition from WFB to AoS. Even the company wasn't sure what will stay. But now all available factions have updated rules, what was going to be gone  is gone. There is no reason to think that something is going to go. Initial mess has been removed. Be calm and play.

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29 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

I'll quote you on that in a year and we shall see. It's almost certain giving the new lumineth tome that cities will not be around much longer.

Talking about quoting another.

8B00BF2F-94F7-4156-88E9-88E7B8CB5BC3.png.21ff459af90b0b025374401f179cd8cb.png

I’m not showing this to be a D. Well a little bit because I’m still pretty sure that you are just a troll.

but this was your conviction about the state of AoS and KO in particular. To me it shows not that AoS is not in a bad place. Probably things aren’t moving as fast as you’d like. But within four months of this post KO got a killer tome, a novel, a short story, a place in soul bound and a new character model. 

again it will take longer than you’d like. As you already feel the world has ended for humans in AoS. But there is a place for the freeguild cities. And they will be supported. In the lore and with models. 

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I have to say that we simply don't know what the future holds. Will soup armies be squatted or will more armies be added to soup tomes? We don't know and I am assuming that GW is watching the sales of armies like Cities and Legions of Nagash fairly closely. I had assumed that the Phonician models from Cities would have been integrated into Lumineth and Dispossesed, Wanderers and the remnants of the Dark Elf line would follow suit when their AOS equivalents were released. But as that is not how it turned out I am curious if that is a sign that GW has more faith in the City concept...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, michu said:

Not anymore. Tomb King points are still from 2017.

Latest Tomb Kings points were printed in the Pitched Battle Profiles booklet of GHB 2019. (Additional Profiles -> Death) I do think they're the same as the points from 2017, but still a recent enough release that people can take them to tournaments.

I do think they'll still get printed in GHB 2020 pitched battle profiles, even if its just to give it an additional page count.

Edited by PraetorDragoon
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Just now, PraetorDragoon said:

Latest Tomb Kings points were printed in the Pitched Battle Profiles booklet of GHB 2019. (Additional Profiles -> Death) I do think they're the same as the points from 2017, but still a recent enough release that people can take them to tournaments.

Sorry, you're right - and I was looking there.

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6 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I had assumed that the Phonician models from Cities would have been integrated into Lumineth and Dispossesed, Wanderers and the remnants of the Dark Elf line would follow suit when their AOS equivalents were released. But as that is not how it turned out I am curious if that is a sign that GW has more faith in the City concept...

I would love GW would figure out what it wants with Phoenix Temple...

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9 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

I would love GW would figure out what it wants with Phoenix Temple...

Its want to keep selling those models but not elaborate or update the rules and eventually phase them out completely 

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15 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I have to say that we simply don't know what the future holds. Will soup armies be squatted or will more armies be added to soup tomes? We don't know and I am assuming that GW is watching the sales of armies like Cities and Legions of Nagash fairly closely. I had assumed that the Phonician models from Cities would have been integrated into Lumineth and Dispossesed, Wanderers and the remnants of the Dark Elf line would follow suit when their AOS equivalents were released. But as that is not how it turned out I am curious if that is a sign that GW has more faith in the City concept...

Due to the lead time before release this can only be partly true. If it takes 3+- years (correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember saying them it took roughly this long) to develop a new faction including models. So of course they will be looking at it. But how long would a new book without models take? And is that enough time to actually see if it affects sales, then transport those principles to the next book?

Legions of Nagash is februari 2018. Cities august 2019. Could they have seen a succes in sales/enjoyment/any given metric and then decided to do the same for cities, produce the rules, playtest, design the book, produce the book, and release within 18 months?

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, michu said:

Wait a bit longer. I think the illusion of the lack of longevity stems from the fact that for 5 years we've been in a "cleanup step". Basically there was a bit of chaos caused by transition from WFB to AoS. Even the company wasn't sure what will stay. But now all available factions have updated rules, what was going to be gone  is gone. There is no reason to think that something is going to go. Initial mess has been removed. Be calm and play.

The issue is that I like more that was lost or is unsure (CoS) than what has remained. Apart from Kharadron, there isn't a new army I like entirely, and I don't feel like committing any more than GW does.

I like painting, and will be finishing somewhat of a Kharadron army, but I don't really want to follow whereever the rules are bringing me.

But I can paint models from lots of different vendors, for less money, and better suited to my tastes.

Maybe GW will make models that I cannot ignore in the future (finding out about that is rather easy), but I can do without quite well. I do like the core game of AoS, but it's additions and required knowledge of other faction's battletomes starts making it cumbersome.

Edited by zilberfrid

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1 hour ago, michu said:

FW is different problem. They constantly drop units for 40k and 30k without warning. 

July was announced earlier. Reason? Mostly redundancy, too much warscrolls in one book (now CoS have slightly more units than ScE; still, more units than ScE!), old sculpts and Lumineth.

And familiars? Really? Losing those ancient sculpts (I think they were fighting for the title of "the oldest sculpt" with Ragnar Blackmane") is a reason to expect more squatting? They even didn't feel warhammery enough and were useless.

And I still don't understand how all those lost units that never got a battletome or were dropped for preparation of a battletome are a reason to think that a faction with a battletome will get squatted. With the former, GW didn't invest anything. They just were there and when GW decided that they are not going to produce them they're gone. lWith CoS they commissioned new artwork, short stories from @JReynolds and the rules thmeselves. You're not going to do that for something you don't care for. why they didn't get terrain or endless spells? Designers have only so much time and they were working on other factions. Remember that during 40k 8th ed most armies also got nothing. It's not a sign of anything.

Not anymore. Tomb King points are still from 2017.

Tomb Kings are on page 30 of the 2019 pitched battles points booklet, classified under the generic "death" heading. Bretonians are on page 32, and they also have all the forge world stuff. I can't spot them in 2018 though, so maybe they took them out, but then put them back in when they split it into a separate book and had more space?

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3 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Tomb Kings are on page 30 of the 2019 pitched battles points booklet, classified under the generic "death" heading. Bretonians are on page 32, and they also have all the forge world stuff. I can't spot them in 2018 though, so maybe they took them out, but then put them back in when they split it into a separate book and had more space?

They gave all the compendium stuff and FW digital profiles in 2018. It coincided with second edition.

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Posted (edited)

Very interested to see this years handbook. This will be the first handbook to start with a now well organised range. I'd be surprise to see points values for non-battle tome armies from here on out. This will keep things nice and clear for new players.

On the topic of models that are no longer supported, I am very happily playing  Cities of Sigmar in a campaign against the Tomb Kings. I am fielding legacy units (General on Horse, Archers) using the latest version of the war scroll that supported my units and the last published point values. We also give these units the Cities of Sigmar keyword. We are having a blast and GW hasn't been around to my house yet to tell me off.

But if you are an exclusive matched play tournament player, I think you will be dropping units to keep up with the meta more than dropping units for being discontinued.

Edited by Greyshadow
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