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Not all new players are drawn to new armies though. I am new and after being given the Nighthaunt half of SoulWars and building that up, I have now gone the other way and have started a Beasts of Chaos one. I'm mindful that they need an update, I'm aware that this may mean that some units may be lost and I knew that that they don't seem to be particularly popular, or meta, but none of these things stopped me. I wanted Beasts and so I bought them.

So in my case, their old army has been financially better for them than the Nighthaunt one was.

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1 hour ago, amysrevenge said:

As an addendum to my post above, after considering it for a while.

There aren't that many old WFB armies left to deal with.  So there are fewer opportunities left to do what I labelled as 3, 4, or 5.  They'd have to un-soup some Legions of Nagash or Cities of Sigmar, or un-squat Gitmob or Greenskins or Bretonnia.

So maybe there is reason to hope for a new tactic out of GW sometime in the not too distant future?

I was thinking about this- one of the primary purposes of AOS is it allows GW to explore different "tropes" of classic armies- all ghost armies, all slayer armies.. all tree spirit armies for example. This means elf collectors suddenly have multiple choices of [small ]armies to collect, dwarf players can have slayers, steampunk dwarfs or dispossessed and probably "high dwarfs" next... But with their return to the old world they create another outlet for army types- they can have classic wood elves, norse dwarfs, classic dwarfs, Bretonnia etc while still offering fire dwarfs, tree spirit armies.. so maybe see of these army types will just appear in the Old World setting. 

For AoS I can see them continuing to expand with new armies and then slowly folding older armies together as they go - I reckon Kurnothi will have their own book and then be folded in with Sylvaneth at  a later point. Having said that the benefit of AoS is there is so much they can add to factions rather than redoing models they can bring out brand new models to add to existing factions. The problem they faced with old WFB and 40k is the limited return on replacement models. I think thats changed now as they have moved the sculpting on so much and left ranges largely dormant that they can now return to them with refresh with higher quietly kits and probably a fish approach as seen with the Necron release and Sisters of Battle. 

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1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

TBH, I have so many things to assemble, glue, not even mentioning painting that I'm (almost) done with buying stuf for AoS: some thing like 4000 or 5K points per army for 7 armies... I am actually building the tzeench army: I am less than half of it done and I don't see where I can stock the minis lol. 5 armies to go hahaha I need a bigger house. Stocking our minis is a really big problem.

But.....

But I'll add at least ONE giant. Must have. And probably later an army of them (with the gargants also), one of them giants being heavily  kitbashed with so many spiky things that I got for chaos (from princes and spawns essentially, but not only). I'll play the giant in most armies. Just for the fun of having such a big mini on the table.

My investments are also frozen. Same problem...except that this new necron army is killing me. Sh*t, one more army. I swear that it'll be my last one!!! 😜

Conclusion: I'm impatient to see the sons. My heart is bleeding. But my brain is expecting them later, far later.

All I need is the Sons. But seeing that release schedule seems to be going ahead without the Lockdown considered I'm starting to think late July - August is becoming more if a possibility.

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5 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

No AoS article for 11 days :(

Considering they're releasing a new edition for 40k I can't say I'm surprised as they'd want to build hype for that, they did the same thing when the new edition of AoS came out. It'll be our time again after it's released, until then I reckon we'll see those last WHU warbands sprinkled about and maybe that Lumineth box they showed off a while back.

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8 hours ago, Overread said:

there was clearly a phase - 40K started adopting and AoS at lauch was embracing it fully - of when GW was going to roll out lots of smaller factions. We saw this - Custodes, Sisters of Silence - Yinnari  - the growing prominance of "subfactions" outside of Marines. I think at the end of the Kirby era marketing was moving toward spreading armies wider through many many subfactions rather than new armies and new ideas. Clearly the thinking on that took a huge turn with new management and adopting a new focus. I think GW was starting at new armies as a secret weapon of big fast sales; however that's a short term profit generating idea and overlooks the importance of long term considerations. Especially for a market that relies heavily on long term gamers. Long term fans are the ones organising clubs; welcoming newbies; running games; playing the game; marketing the game. That guy with his one Daughters of Khaine army for 10 years is your marketing man selling it to others. If you release a billion new armies and never another DoK new model or update then you lose that gamer (at best) and at worst they turn into a campaigner against your game 

I hope you are right with the long-term gamers, but as long as we have no real data it's really hard to tell how much impact these different factors have. They might lose this 10-year-DoK-only-player if they won't provide new models, but they wouldn't have gotten me returning as long-term High Elf player after years of hiatus, who basically quit because of End Times/AoS without finally releasing the Lumineth.

So, what's better for them? Attracting new players, or keeping players which are only focusing on one, two armies (I actually likely will fall in this category, and might become disgruntled over time if there is no new stuff for the Lumineth). And that guy with the one DoK army wouldn't have been a marketing tool for me at all, because they don't appeal to me as an army to collect (I like their lore, but would never get them myself). The "Point Aelves" vid on the other hand was a great marketing tool for me : ).

We don't really know 

- How much they rely on sales of new armies for their total profit

- How many people actually just stick to one, two armies 

- How much of a force multiplier long term players with one, two armies are for them

- How much an average new player is "worth" against an average long-term player

- Might it just be enough to keep this one-army player engaged by throwing them a bone here and there (Warcry band, hero model) and keeping it open that there MIGH BE MORE just around the corner, while actually focusing on new armies

and so on. This old one-army player being really important for the long term health of their business model sounds great, and I hope it's true, but actually we do not know that. 

With many of the newer releases you can also see that they are clearly not only trying to get back old Fantasy players like myself, but also people who weren't attracted to the "same" faction before. If they'd only try to get old High Elf players with the Lumineth, you wouldn't see hammers and bovines as the central theme. Same is true for the OBR and KO (of course also has to do with trademark issues). So for me it looks like they at least for now are still thinking that mainly expanding their player base. 

Of course at some point it won't be possible to only churn out new factions, but I really wonder if we see so many updates for old ones, which we all kind of hope for.  It also might be it get's a bit more hybrid-like over time. If they'd add a Tyrion faction to the Lumineth, it could be pretty blurry if that is expanding the "old" range, or a new faction depending on the design and width of the range. Same could be true for a Malerion army for example. 

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Posted (edited)

The point I was making which I didn't actually put in my post is that to a new player, like me, all of the armies are new. It doesn't matter who it is, whether it's new to Aos 2.0 or an army from WFB ported over in dribs and drabs. The new players reference point is zero so its all new. 

In terms of attracting new players, I don't think new armies or new units is the draw. Maybe the advertising of a new army makes you aware of the world but if GW had advertised a new boxset with BoC against DoK with all the old models and with all the old Battletomes and lore I still would have bought it because it was new to me and the army attracted me. Despite the outcry there would be from existing players. 

I think that the new armies, units and Battletomes are more for the existing player base to try and tempt you into starting a whole new army and forking out a few hundred quid. 

Edited by Oak7603
Batrleotmes isn't a word
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It seems that a persistent yet probably reliable (lol) tells us that  the 40k v9 is July 11th for Pre-Orders with 2 Weeks of Pre-Orders and the release date being on the 25th of July.

This leaves a huge window open for the lumineth before those dates, and maybe, the sons... Because , from late july until probably september, it'll be 40k releases...

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1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

It seems that a persistent yet probably reliable (lol) tells us that  the 40k v9 is July 11th for Pre-Orders with 2 Weeks of Pre-Orders and the release date being on the 25th of July.

This leaves a huge window open for the lumineth before those dates, and maybe, the sons... Because , from late july until probably september, it'll be 40k releases...

A month and a half to pump out the two of them is more than enough. Lumineth could be done in 2 or 3 weeks, then a break and release some more 40K PA, and the Sons could release alongside the Lumineth for one week or even with another release such as LOTR seeing as there is literally a kit a Battletome and some Warscroll Cards. (Unless GW has done the sneaky and there is a second Leader Kit or Scenery Piece).

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Source who confirmed 40k for late july is saying Lumineth is iminent.

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2 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Source who confirmed 40k for late july is saying Lumineth is iminent.

I thought Lumineth wouldve been up for Pre Order this weekend just gone. I'm hoping they're dropping this coming weekend.

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5 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Source who confirmed 40k for late july is saying Lumineth is iminent.

Yeahhh!

Need more pointy ears to kill /get killed by...

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How imminent though ? 
 

Guessing it’s only the starter box first and everything else weeks / months later ? 

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On 6/2/2020 at 8:47 PM, Oak7603 said:

I'm sure that you all mean to mention Beasts of Chaos too when you talk about Armies needing updates... 🤣🤣😉

New sculpts for Gors, Bestigors and Ungors would be nice, to bring them in line with the quality of the beastgrave models.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

How imminent though ? 
 

Guessing it’s only the starter box first and everything else weeks / months later ? 

Starter box to begin and then perhaps a week off. Week after half of the range. Week off. Week after rest of the range and Sons of Behemat?

Edited by KingBrodd

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8 minutes ago, 123lac said:

New sculpts for Gors, Bestigors and Ungors would be nice, to bring them in line with the quality of the beastgrave models.

I think these three plastic kits hold up really well for their age. They are multipart kits, with extra bits/weapons/heads and respectable detail. 

They were designed for fantasy so the poses are not as dynamic as todays armies, but they are all horde units and i think they work better this way.

What i think Beasts of Chaos would really need are:

 

New named characters. The only one we have is from the warband in Beastgrave.

A big centrepiece model. It could be a huge chaotic creature, or Morghur himself. 

Remake of old resin/metal units. Chariots, Razorgors and Centigors come to mind. 

This could be done in one boxed kit, like the current Slaves to Darkness Chaos Chariot. it could be a chariot that you can build with two tuskgors or one razorgor (like the two horses and gorebeast from chaos chariot). There would be an option to build the Chariot with a Beastlord hero instead (Two heads for the Beastlord with one of them being for a named character). If you built it with tuskgors you can use the spare Razorgor as a unit himself.

Essentially we would get options for up to 8 different warscroll units from one box. (Tuskgor Chariot, Razorgor Chariot, Beastlord on tuskgor chariot, Beastlord on razorgor chariot, Razorgor,  Beastlord on foot, named beastlord on chariot, named Beastlord on foot). I know i would buy several sets to have a variety of the different units in my collection.

 

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And today's Herald 

83053318_1348671521996304_29461248495268

 

Something tells me @KingBrodd is going to go nuts at the last bit!

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1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Yeahhh!

Need more pointy ears to kill /get killed by...

As long as I can point an Ironclad with 20 Thunderers first turn and a Warp Lightning Vortex or Comet right in the worst centrepiece of the age known as Teclis I will be happy :).

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1 hour ago, Overread said:

And today's Herald 

83053318_1348671521996304_29461248495268

 

Something tells me @KingBrodd is going to go nuts at the last bit!

Oh. My. God. Do the Hammerhal Heralds tease what's being released next? Or soon at least? The hype train has no brakes!!

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There is interesting tidbit from todays 40k article:

Quote

Finally, as part of developing the new edition, points values were reviewed and have been adjusted UP across every faction. This may sound odd at first, but it yields several benefits. Firstly, games will play faster with, generally speaking, smaller armies on either side. This also makes starting a fresh army for the new edition a more accessible, quicker experience. It also means there’s room for more granularity when establishing how powerful one unit or ability is compared to another

Curious if when time comes for AoS there will be some shift like that?

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8 hours ago, Oak7603 said:

The point I was making which I didn't actually put in my post is that to a new player, like me, all of the armies are new. It doesn't matter who it is, whether it's new to Aos 2.0 or an army from WFB ported over in dribs and drabs. The new players reference point is zero so its all new. 

In terms of attracting new players, I don't think new armies or new units is the draw. Maybe the advertising of a new army makes you aware of the world but if GW had advertised a new boxset with BoC against DoK with all the old models and with all the old Battletomes and lore I still would have bought it because it was new to me and the army attracted me. Despite the outcry there would be from existing players. 

I think that the new armies, units and Battletomes are more for the existing player base to try and tempt you into starting a whole new army and forking out a few hundred quid. 

This is such a good point, everyone I have introduced to the hobby looks at each faction with the same excitement and interest that we do when a new one releases. The only disappointment I see comes in the form of realizing that certain armies that pique their interest cannot always ally.

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3 hours ago, Overread said:

And today's Herald 

83053318_1348671521996304_29461248495268

Apart from the Gargants, is this teasing a new Starseer model? We had a rumor engine not too long ago with a Seraphon staff and some feathers.

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The Herald is like the Regiment magazine for 40K - they might hint at things ,but overall they are mostly just topical and casual links to the system. They very rarely predict anything with any degree of accuracy. It might be a prediction or just a random article from the world setting. In fact its rarer to get certain links to upcoming releases (except when those releases are very well known - like Giants)/ 

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2 hours ago, Boar said:

There is interesting tidbit from todays 40k article:

Curious if when time comes for AoS there will be some shift like that?

I'd say this is more a case of 40K following AoS's example. Smaller armies are much more common on the fantasy side of the fence in my experience.

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Posted (edited)

  

2 hours ago, Boar said:

There is interesting tidbit from todays 40k article:

Curious if when time comes for AoS there will be some shift like that?

I'm not sure what to think of it.

Yes, there is the benefit of easier access for new players and for old players to start a new army but what about those players that have already optimized their armies, made their list, and most important, spent their money on models that now are redundant? It's one thing when they increase in points one unit, decrease another and totally different when they just say to their customers "thx for your cash but you needlessly bought those 15 last minis for Orkz, 20 for Tyranids and 5 for Eldar."

Edited by Aryann
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