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15 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

We know from Iron Hands playtesters that GW rules writers only really take things under advisement and that they'll ignore things if they think it's 'thematic' or 'characterful', which is why we can end up with abyssal balance much of the time.

Having competitive players chipping in is actually a very new thing to the studio, as it seems like they mostly playtest in a very casual environment among themselves, which is also why they're often so blindsided by combinations that seem obvious in hindsight.

It is a very weird approach for a company of their size to just ignore feedback. Something may very well be characterful or thematic but if it is a mechanic or unit that significantly reduces a significant number of peoples enjoyment of the game it should be changed. I'm not talking about winning or losing here, it is things that leave opponents using most of the available armies just rolling saves and picking up their models without any way to respond (turn 1 death or crippling whatever you do). If I lose, I lose but if i cant actually play the game because my opponent has something which stops me playing (and there are plenty of recent examples of this) it is a bad business move. 

It's also no use saying just use the 1 or 2 armies that have some sort of a counter to the superpower as that invalidates the use of a significant proportion of the factions for sale. A constantly changing meta with new challenges and new powerful armies to contend with is good. Breaking the game because the rules writers think a particular thing is a cool idea in isolation is silly. 

Re tome balance, having 1 subfaction which is obviously far more powerful than any other just means chunks of the book need not have been written. 

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20 minutes ago, Laststand said:

It is a very weird approach for a company of their size to just ignore feedback. Something may very well be characterful or thematic but if it is a mechanic or unit that significantly reduces a significant number of peoples enjoyment of the game it should be changed. I'm not talking about winning or losing here, it is things that leave opponents using most of the available armies just rolling saves and picking up their models without any way to respond (turn 1 death or crippling whatever you do). If I lose, I lose but if i cant actually play the game because my opponent has something which stops me playing (and there are plenty of recent examples of this) it is a bad business move. 

I don't think it's black or white.

I think that there are a lot of "out of game" layers that we don't take in consideration. I'm pretty sure that sales, stock, new campaign books, or what's in the pipeline  can have some impact on the rules. Sometimes it's just that, a bad rule broken the game, sometimes it worked as it should (even if we don't see that). 

But we are just players, so we care for what happens on the table. If something is broken/OP/UP, we assume that the testers did a poor job or the big company just ignored their feedback.

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1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I don't think it's black or white.

I think that there are a lot of "out of game" layers that we don't take in consideration. I'm pretty sure that sales, stock, new campaign books, or what's in the pipeline  can have some impact on the rules. Sometimes it's just that, a bad rule broken the game, sometimes it worked as it should (even if we don't see that). 

But we are just players, so we care for what happens on the table. If something is broken/OP/UP, we assume that the testers did a poor job or the big company just ignored their feedback.

This is exactly true, the vector for analysis is so biased and unscientific I find most commentary online to be of almost no substantive value. Something as minor as having no KO players in your community can make several other armies disproportionately powerful. I went home last summer, participated in an event and there was only 2 HoS army. The faction just didn't develop any traction in the local community that changed the circumstances of army building and completely reshuffled what was viable. HoS won the event but he won the previous year with a Nurgle army if I remember correctly. 
 

There is less than one to on relationship between good players and OP armies, the closer relationship is good players and interesting rules which often are strong since they allow better manipulation of the game state. The interactions between factions is a substantial distorter on what is good. I personally can't assess LRL until I get a better idea of what pace they can play the game, we don't even know how many dice these units throw in combat! 

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1 hour ago, Laststand said:

It is a very weird approach for a company of their size to just ignore feedback. Something may very well be characterful or thematic but if it is a mechanic or unit that significantly reduces a significant number of peoples enjoyment of the game it should be changed. I'm not talking about winning or losing here, it is things that leave opponents using most of the available armies just rolling saves and picking up their models without any way to respond (turn 1 death or crippling whatever you do). If I lose, I lose but if i cant actually play the game because my opponent has something which stops me playing (and there are plenty of recent examples of this) it is a bad business move. 

It's also no use saying just use the 1 or 2 armies that have some sort of a counter to the superpower as that invalidates the use of a significant proportion of the factions for sale. A constantly changing meta with new challenges and new powerful armies to contend with is good. Breaking the game because the rules writers think a particular thing is a cool idea in isolation is silly. 

Re tome balance, having 1 subfaction which is obviously far more powerful than any other just means chunks of the book need not have been written. 

I feel this is probably most true for competitive play against strangers. In a game between friends or acquaintances who take the other players fun into consideration and/or talk things out before-hand (the only games I play), this really isn't an issue. 

Competitive play gets a lot of conversation, so I think we forget that the silent majority of the players are casual and just in it for fun. I certainly agree that a more balanced game is better, as it makes it harder for inexperienced players to inadvertently create an unfun game for their opponent, and prevents the cheese that can appear frequently on the competitive scene. All that said, for most players the easiest way to avoid this kind of scenario is a quick conversation and some self-balancing when it comes to the units/combos/synergies they bring to the table.  And that appears to be the mentality with which GW approaches army design.

Granted, if you mostly or exclusively play competitively than little of what I said will apply to you, and the above quote is completely valid.

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14 hours ago, Kramer said:

Tattoos are the solution. 

Im litterally this close to getting a Combat Gauge tattoed on my hand. I keep misplacing and forgetting where I put it!

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1 minute ago, Greasygeek said:

Im litterally this close to getting a Combat Gauge tattoed on my hand. I keep misplacing and forgetting where I put it!

wouldnt a nose ring with a chain be the solution for that?

 

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As somebody who has playtested a bunch of games (non-aos), you would be surprised how much doesn't get caught or filed under "this is fine" and going on with things that the testers deem to require their attention. And of course the classic last minute buff to an underpowered option making it overpowered. It is quite possible that Petrifex bonus was different for a long time and changed near the end, leaving not a bunch of time for fine-tuning.

52 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Im litterally this close to getting a Combat Gauge tattoed on my hand. I keep misplacing and forgetting where I put it!

Misplacing and forgetting your hand sounds like a bigger problem.

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15 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Misplacing and forgetting your hand sounds like a bigger problem.

Oh but it is. It’s called Captain Hook’s Syndrome🥁

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Way do they have the sam reroll 1 ass in the GH is change coming?  Big deal for bastiladons if they lose reroll save of 1
t2ZgV8rU8pK62Dh0.jpg

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Posted (edited)

thumbnail_image.png

Prices are about what I would expect a bit cheaper than the Sister of Battle one ($185 should be £110)

Edited by Matrindur

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Any rumours of new SCE? Im tired of useless warscroll from edition 0.

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29 minutes ago, Fellman said:

Way do they have the sam reroll 1 ass in the GH is change coming?  Big deal for bastiladons if they lose reroll save of 1
t2ZgV8rU8pK62Dh0.jpg

It is not the same as the GHB Command Ability. This one doesn't require a nearby hero.

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2 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Any rumours of new SCE? Im tired of useless warscroll from edition 0.

Agreed!!  Tired of my army collecting dust.

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14 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

You say that, but I have played many people who don't go after my general ot support units, which usually causes them to lose badly 

I can confirm this.  I literally pointed this out to a KO opponent while playing my S2D army after I rolled them so bad in our first game he conceded like 45 minutes in.  We setup again, and I gave him pointers where the weak spots in my army were to get is confidence back up.  My opponent then took a couple of shots at one of my Chaos Sorcerer Lords but Look Out Sir and later after I could get Oracular Vision up he just gave up targeting him going for the 15 Warriors being babysat by the Sorcerer instead. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Oak7603 said:

The rules always say... "at the start of the so & so phase..." I've not seen one that says pick this at the beginning of the game and it lasts forEVAH! 

Sure, but that's not was I was suggesting. I'm saying some players will want their opponents to let them get away with not having to pick it each so & so phase. They will be like "I'm forgetful, so just assume that unless I say otherwise, it's like I told you at the start of each so & so phase that I picked it."

 

In other words "don't make me have to have the ability to keep track of what my army can do, and just assume I  made the right choice all the time." 😉

Edited by Sleboda
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12 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Any rumours of new SCE? Im tired of useless warscroll from edition 0.

Nope

We know that there will be another battletome (due to the tease of 3 unopened chambers in the current one), and we can infer that as their flagship line they will come as frequently as a Space Marine book. As there was an SCE BT 2 years ago then they are probably due this summer, but after coronavirus who knows. This assumption was also made before 40k 9th was announced and as that is this years cash cow, SCE may not be until next year (which may coincide with AoS 3.0).

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4 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Nope

We know that there will be another battletome (due to the tease of 3 unopened chambers in the current one), and we can infer that as their flagship line they will come as frequently as a Space Marine book. As there was an SCE BT 2 years ago then they are probably due this summer, but after coronavirus who knows. This assumption was also made before 40k 9th was announced and as that is this years cash cow, SCE may not be until next year (which may coincide with AoS 3.0).

rip.

Im realy tired that how the army design was thats sce are durable. And now 4+ sv means ******. Stormcast are made of wet nuddle and hit like wet nuddle.

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30 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

rip.

Im realy tired that how the army design was thats sce are durable. And now 4+ sv means ******. Stormcast are made of wet nuddle and hit like wet nuddle.

I sympathize, this is the same feeling i have for my Chaos Warriors, Chaos Chosen and Chaos Knights and their battletome was released half a year ago, which likely means i will have to wait at least 3 years for a chance that they might get better.  These units haven't been good since warhammer fantasy :/

Hopefully the stormcasts from the first release (Liberators, Retributors etc) get some love.

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1 hour ago, Infernalslayer said:

I sympathize, this is the same feeling i have for my Chaos Warriors, Chaos Chosen and Chaos Knights and their battletome was released half a year ago, which likely means i will have to wait at least 3 years for a chance that they might get better.  These units haven't been good since warhammer fantasy :/

Hopefully the stormcasts from the first release (Liberators, Retributors etc) get some love.

Chaos Warriors and Chaos Knights are pretty good as is. However in certain god aligned armies they're super strong. I run them both in my Khorne  tournament lists and have done well with them. A unit of 15 Chaos Warriors in Khorne, with bronzed flesh have a 3+ re-roll all saves (because unit size), 5+ mortal wound save and then if you have a warshrine a 6++ save. At last weekends tournament I had a huge unit of stabbas hitting my Chaos Warriors. With 45 attacks hitting me on 2 and wounding me on 3, my warriors only took 1 wound. It was pretty amazing. 

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Because probably not everyone is looking this article up, this art piece, just wow. 

CEFA075B-9325-4A72-821C-65F9F628DDFC.jpeg

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38 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Because probably not everyone is looking this article up, this art piece, just wow. 

CEFA075B-9325-4A72-821C-65F9F628DDFC.jpeg

Woaaaa that's so cool!!!

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Because probably not everyone is looking this article up, this art piece, just wow. 

CEFA075B-9325-4A72-821C-65F9F628DDFC.jpeg

This looks like an army I would buy. Again the Artwork outmatches the Miniatures by the factor 10000000.00000!11! 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

another spotting (riders with glaives?)

89D5B0BB-B534-4622-818F-E052EB02FDB1.jpeg.553e3254b22e1dae91e73163f6859972.jpeg

Edited by JackStreicher

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