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The bear looks awesome!Although what I'm continued to be excited about is Norse Dwarfs on the map... Norse Dwarfs with bears would almost be too much.. almost.... 

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23 minutes ago, silverstu said:

The bear looks awesome!Although what I'm continued to be excited about is Norse Dwarfs on the map... Norse Dwarfs with bears would almost be too much.. almost.... 

I didn't know that i wanted... needed some dwarfs riding bears in my life, until now!!

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So far, Dwarf factions are not into my liking in warhammer,  but you can bet i would start an army of Norse Dwarves riding bears!! :D

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I just want to remind people that these bears are Kislive bears which means human riders 

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1 hour ago, Overread said:

Subscribers are already getting them in the UK 

Yep, subscriber in the UK here and got mine today. Was very surprised. 

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Interesting to note that the Aleguzzlar Gargant has been removed from all Factions of the Destruction Alliance from the web store. 

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40 minutes ago, Overread said:

I just want to remind people that these bears are Kislive bears which means human riders 

Of course, but if the scales align then you can bet there will be some bear riders in AoS

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By the recent disappointment in terrain pieces, endless spells or lack there of.. I would say it looks like more thought and care is being poured into the old world again lol.

though to be fair neither of the above have ever been great. However, more so recently there seems to be controversy over the design of said terrain and spells being missed opportunities or weak. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I really don't understand this snide, gleeful hope from certain people that TOW will not be what WHFB fans want from it.

Ah well, tick tock.

It's just tribalism. Both sides have a few neerdowells who just want to wind up the "other side".

Best just to ignore them.  Most normal people just want a wide range players to have things they enjoy, no matter what their own personal preferences are. 

Edited by Kyriakin
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4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Does anybody have the Lumineth VS S2D White Dwarf already?

I bet S2D are either being wiped off the table completely or they lose horrendously.
At least that will happen unless the Lumineth player does make bad decisions on purpose 🤣

 

srsly I am interested in that battle report, do we k ow when it‘ll be purchasable (digital version)?

On facebook someone said it was a draw.

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I wonder if TOW is really that far away. They are always quick to remember us that this is still sooooo far away... but on the other hand, did we ever see concept art teasers for things that are still 2-3 years in the future from GW? 

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26 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

I wonder if TOW is really that far away. They are always quick to remember us that this is still sooooo far away... but on the other hand, did we ever see concept art teasers for things that are still 2-3 years in the future from GW? 

Yeah, the Sisters of Battle thing was like that. 

Creating new artwork is the fastest part of the whole process.

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26 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Yeah, the Sisters of Battle thing was like that. 

Creating new artwork is the fastest part of the whole process.

You’re right, Sisters was similar.

I don’t know if this works, though. Currently, I have a feeling that all those early teases and rumors actually keep me from buying. Something like „let’s first see if there’s something even more interesting down the line, before committing lots of painting time/money“.

Is this just me?

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Reading al this above but the only thing im thinking about it how Eltharion the ex blind can be 220 points with those rules. Like... i dont know any 220 point character with that potential. Cant name a 300 point character with this potential and my celestant prime is just smiling at this moment. Im not sure what to think about it. Same goes for these really good saves on these elite guys. Are aelves the new lore tanks now? kind of hoped a more glasscanon vibe. 

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33 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

You’re right, Sisters was similar.

I don’t know if this works, though. Currently, I have a feeling that all those early teases and rumors actually keep me from buying. Something like „let’s first see if there’s something even more interesting down the line, before committing lots of painting time/money“.

Is this just me?

But there’s nothing to buy or paint yet anyway?

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10 minutes ago, Still-young said:

But there’s nothing to buy or paint yet anyway?

I still have some left. But in the last weeks I got interested in looking for some new project to maybe try something different. I like the Idoneth, but they still feel half-baked, and no extension of their range in sight. I liked the Lumineth spearmen, archers and riders and had some idea to maybe make them into a AoSified Lothern Sea Patrol, but the cows and hammers didn’t fit at all, and I don’t know if there will be more models that would fit. Now, those Kislevites make me wonder what they may come up with for ToW. 
Sorry to sound a bit negative today. But I have a feeling that the half-bakedness of much of the current GW stuff isn’t helping with the half-bakedness of my own ideas. Like I said, maybe it’s just me. 😕

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12 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I really don't understand this snide, gleeful hope from certain people that TOW will not be what WHFB fans want from it.

Ah well, tick tock.

 

I am a big WFB fan.

"Fans" of anything do not speak with a single voice. I loved and missed old WFB. I just think that with a second Warhammer in the same scale as AoS is, I dunno, not as compelling as a totally different scale.

 

WFB was a big wargame with big armies in big blocks. It failed. It got cancelled. A general consensus is that needing hundreds of models for an average sized game held it back. AoS came out and scratched similar itches without the investment of time, models, and cash that WFB needed. It's doing great!

 

To bring back an old game with old models just to have another go at a failed style doesn't seem like a money making move for GW. They need to sell models, not just rules, and giving us rules for our old models doesn't sell the veteran WFB players much in the way of new armies. That's why I'm thinking it won't be rules for our old models.

So, as much as I'd love to have my TK back in the table, I'm anticipating that not happening, and I'm looking forward to something new and epic.

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Posted (edited)

TBH, time and technology aren't the same anymore. My WFB armies are full of metal miniatures. Now, you can have a block of 20 squeletons/kairic acolytes/whatever troops for cheap (hummm cheap in GW price scale). Nowadays, I'm pretty sure that a WFB costs the same as an AoS army.

The WFB fail was mostly due to the bad development/marketing strategy and the focus on the cash machine 40K. At least they thought that way and that was their mistake (AoS proves they where wrong). With better management, they could have continued several superb if not best games in addition to 40K: 3 of them are my all time fav:battlefleet gothic (battleship miniatures!! miam miam!) , warmaster (in 6mm scale: loved this scale), Epic (oh dear! what a sublime game! super loved the scale and pace! definitly best of the best). For those 3 games, the fatal thing was: full metal mini range. GW couldn't manage. (In fact, they were afraid that the sales of epic could vampirise the 40K ones.../ same for warmaster and WFB/ what a shame🤔)

Edited by GeneralZero
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2 hours ago, Juicy said:

Are aelves the new lore tanks now? 

I would not think that all aelves get a 3+, that‘s an Eltharion only thing I guess.

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51 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I am a big WFB fan.

"Fans" of anything do not speak with a single voice. I loved and missed old WFB. I just think that with a second Warhammer in the same scale as AoS is, I dunno, not as compelling as a totally different scale.

 

WFB was a big wargame with big armies in big blocks. It failed. It got cancelled. A general consensus is that needing hundreds of models for an average sized game held it back. AoS came out and scratched similar itches without the investment of time, models, and cash that WFB needed. It's doing great!

 

To bring back an old game with old models just to have another go at a failed style doesn't seem like a money making move for GW. They need to sell models, not just rules, and giving us rules for our old models doesn't sell the veteran WFB players much in the way of new armies. That's why I'm thinking it won't be rules for our old models.

So, as much as I'd love to have my TK back in the table, I'm anticipating that not happening, and I'm looking forward to something new and epic.

I'd argue that its unreasonable to say that WFB failed, and thus the format as a whole is unworkable. It was very successful for many decades, and the problems you describe only really became endemic towards the end. A large number of other games, both fantasy and historical, also use that rank and flank, mass combat format, and are doing perfectly well for themselves, even if they are not making "GW levels" of money.

It would be more accurate to say that there was an edition and a half of support that wasn't well received by the fanbase. That led to a drop off in sales, to the point where it was not profitable enough for GW. However, it can't really be said to be a damning criticism of the format as a whole. If anything AoS demonstrates that a radical overhaul and rebranding of the fantasy range can work wonders. I thus have no doubt that they can do something similar with old world.

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It seems I am not alone in the camp of people that like The Old World (and AoS), but actually want epic scale.

In fact, one of my biggest GW regrets is that I came back to the hobby just after Warmaster was gone.

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And yet 40K is doing powerfully well and most armies in that at 20K use a LOT of models. Rank and file isn't what failed Old World. 

 

I'd argue one if its failing is that GW didn't have Killteam back then. GW has put a lot of money into both Killteam and Warcry. Smaller games that get you going with a single box of models - or perhaps a couple. Small armies in a viable game format with its own rules and marketing. Old World didn't have that. In fact at lower levels its system of gaming was rather dull. One box of warriors mean you had one block of infantry which basically would just run up and ram into the enemy block and its then a dice-off. Manoeuvring and such doesn't really happen at that scale.

 

In addition as its popularity dwindled (partly I think because Lord of the Ring was also stealing the lime light of fantasy marketing at the time) you ended up with a bigger player divide. More and more the players you had left had 2K armies and wanted 2K games; whilst those joining in were fewer and thus had more pressure to need that 2K army. Which led to more regular burnout. Fewer people starting makes it harder to get more people playing. GW has clearly recognised this as a potential weakness in the growth of their games. Hence why they are pushing so many smaller scale skirmish games to help people over that introduction hurdle.

 

I think one or two Old World armies were worse - Skaven for example had an insane number of rats you "needed" to make it work. Most other armies were far more sane in their number requirements and not vastly different from 40K today or some of the large swarming armies of AoS. 

 

Model count wasn't the issue; it was the buildup; the marketing overall and the recruitment and retention of players. 

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The End Times - with new stories, books, models, etc. - did pretty well until the player base got spooked by wild rumours (which ended up being mostly true).

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3 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

It seems I am not alone in the camp of people that like The Old World (and AoS), but actually want epic scale.

In fact, one of my biggest GW regrets is that I came back to the hobby just after Warmaster was gone.

Personally I think rank and file and mass battles just works so much better with 6-15mm scale games. You get a better sense of rank and file and mass infantry; terrain features shift so now a castle on the table is practical to achieve without needing half the room and carrying a massive amount of parts (and even then likely only having one wall segment). For a high fantasy game I think it also lets you have units like dragons have far more impact in the game. In AoS a dragon might kill a dozen warriors - in a warmaster scale game a dragon might kill a dozen regiments ;) 

I had my eye on Warmaster for ages, but it was never popular in my area. Like Epic something failed- either in the marketing or in the fact that those scales have never been super popular outside of historical games (which are themselves a niche). I think GW today if they did Warmaster scale could make it work because of their huge amount of marketing. I'd love it to make a return - until then I've drifted toward Battle Valor and hope to get that started at some time. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kyriakin said:

The End Times - with new stories, books, models, etc. - did pretty well until the player base got spooked by wild rumours (which ended up being mostly true).

Indeed it was a monumental marketing blunder on GW's part alone. End Times proved that Old World worked. The thrust of marketing, new models, new direction and attention sparked peoples interest. Then came the rumours (remembering this is GW of old so we did NOT get marketing like we do today - we had NO idea what was coming). Then came GW kicking the feet out from all those renewed interest players in a brutal manner. That times back then were hostile toward AoS from a market of Old World players and enthusiasts who had just been fired up from potentially seeing their game lost - to seeing the company actually kill it off - was no shock. The greater shock was that GW did it and it cost them several years of sales and a huge turn around in attitudes, marketing, their upper management and in investing heavily and changing the whole focus of AoS to recover.

 

However as a result we now have AoS as it is today - VASTLY improved and improving in general all the time (provided we can overlook some of Gw's classic overpowered balancing "blunders/tactics") 

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