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14 minutes ago, Turgol said:

This is precisely my point: the mortarchs have a very ambiguous background and thus are hard to grasp and get involved with characters. And they would be quite wonderful characters, either as disadapted old entities (like Gotrek) or something else. IMO they should be made less ambiguous, just as GW is approaching lizardmen. 

That's AOS in a nutshell though.

Much less geopolitical and character narrative than Warhammer and 40k, much more abstract concept, legend and myth. Its simultaneously a huge strength but also a big weakness at different points. 

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3 minutes ago, Nos said:

Much less geopolitical and character narrative than Warhammer and 40k, much more abstract concept, legend and myth. Its simultaneously a huge strength but also a big weakness at different points.

Gw is still  working in AoS setting. Give them time and enjoy the ride before we reach the "6th edition" peak.

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Checked the community site for the 2nd time today and was pleasantly surprised to see the Seraphon lore! But then it dawned on me... Space Wolves are a single chapter of Space Marines, and yet have had 3 different lore tidbits (2 PA shorts plus a part 1 today).

Does it annoy anyone else that GW is churning out lore content for 40k but for AOS it feels like we're being drip fed? Is it because of PA specifically?

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1 minute ago, CommissarRotke said:

Checked the community site for the 2nd time today and was pleasantly surprised to see the Seraphon lore! But then it dawned on me... Space Wolves are a single chapter of Space Marines, and yet have had 3 different lore tidbits (2 PA shorts plus a part 1 today).

Does it annoy anyone else that GW is churning out lore content for 40k but for AOS it feels like we're being drip fed? Is it because of PA specifically?

At this point I'm pretty sure psychic awakening is the malign portents of 40k. A constant drip feed of lore leading up to a new edition.

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1 hour ago, madmac said:

At this point I'm pretty sure psychic awakening is the malign portents of 40k. A constant drip feed of lore leading up to a new edition.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Although I don’t mind it that much right now because Orks are my 40k army. Sooon Ghazghkull...

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1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

Checked the community site for the 2nd time today and was pleasantly surprised to see the Seraphon lore! But then it dawned on me... Space Wolves are a single chapter of Space Marines, and yet have had 3 different lore tidbits (2 PA shorts plus a part 1 today).

Does it annoy anyone else that GW is churning out lore content for 40k but for AOS it feels like we're being drip fed? Is it because of PA specifically?

Not really because it's always cyclical - at some point AoS will have a lot more content coming out in comparison to 40k.  When 2nd Edition AoS came out 40k was really quite sparse for a good few months, so if 2nd Edition 40k is coming out then I think they're allowed a bit more coverage.

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1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

Checked the community site for the 2nd time today and was pleasantly surprised to see the Seraphon lore! But then it dawned on me... Space Wolves are a single chapter of Space Marines, and yet have had 3 different lore tidbits (2 PA shorts plus a part 1 today).

Does it annoy anyone else that GW is churning out lore content for 40k but for AOS it feels like we're being drip fed? Is it because of PA specifically?

I feel that frustration deeply

 

Gotta keep in mind a few things from both creative and business end for the disparity in lore. First 40k especially space marines are GWs moneymakers they were always the poster child but a little overattention  in rules coverage,hobby tips and release regularity lead them to being most of the 40kside of the hobby by 4th and 5th edition,to the detriment of other aspects of GWs product line(things are A LOT better now though;we dont live in the era of you waiting 2 to 3 space marine codices before your fantasy army gets an article by GW let a lone a new model or book). It would not shock me  if GW sold more space marines minis then all AoS minis combined. So that's a huge part of the customer base that they need to make feel attended to.

 

next 40ks lore has about 3 decades of history and Aos doesnt even have 8 years under its belt. GW seems to give pretty little wiggle room to writers to go wild more often then not a(much of the dramtic points in the lore come from or is inspired by the old global campaigns it feels like sometimes).  Hence 40k lore with its preexisting structure and outlines can  be just placed on  new planet with same characteristics and operatic events play out.  AoS due to tends to be a little padded lore wise like a mythos more then a grand story(not that that's a bad thing) sometimes leading to fun pulpy stories but tends to not have much character or world building so while you might get a book of lore its more the guys are followers of this god ect. GW departments tend to not communicate and the community page is no exception. Again not bad the openness is great for a hobby BUT if i gotta write a summary article on the warhammer community page I can do more with 40ks tropes structure and history then I can with AoS thus I can write more articles about 40k then AoS  not just practically but with confidence I wont upset a bunch of people on an online forum who take playing and painting their Conan the barbarian mini dolls  WAY to seriously.

 

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Posted (edited)

I don’t know, in my experience 40k players take their lore a lot more seriously than AoS players.

Edited by Platypus

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3 minutes ago, Platypus said:

I don’t know, in my experience 40k players take their lore a lot more seriously than AoS players.

You never met WHFB players then. Now that was serious!

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Could be, I have a gap between WFB 3rd and AoS 2. 😁

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In my experience wargamers in general - both fantasy and 40K - take their lore "seriously" for "their armies" no matter what game system. However interestingly only a small percentage will take it further than the rulebook and battletome/codex level. Ergo far fewer will read books by Black Library.

 

That said I'd also say that BL has some bias built into it - for Old World and very much for AoS there's no real "central" faction that takes the full lions share of releases. As a result you get a lot of stories on everyone. In 40K there's a far heavier bias toward the Imperium factions. Even big and old races like Eldar have far fewer stories about them - although I get a feeling that (Horus Heresy stuff aside) this is slowly changing. 

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4 minutes ago, Turgol said:

You never met WHFB players then. Now that was serious!

Guilty as charged!!

But with the TWW I turn a blind eye.

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2 minutes ago, Overread said:

In my experience wargamers in general - both fantasy and 40K - take their lore "seriously" for "their armies" no matter what game system. However interestingly only a small percentage will take it further than the rulebook and battletome/codex level. Ergo far fewer will read books by Black Library.

 

That said I'd also say that BL has some bias built into it - for Old World and very much for AoS there's no real "central" faction that takes the full lions share of releases. As a result you get a lot of stories on everyone. In 40K there's a far heavier bias toward the Imperium factions. Even big and old races like Eldar have far fewer stories about them - although I get a feeling that (Horus Heresy stuff aside) this is slowly changing. 

Still dreaming of the day of plastic Asurmen and Plastic Dier Avengers.

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Just now, The lord of murder said:

Still dreaming of the day of plastic Asurmen and Plastic Dier Avengers.

Well Dire Avengers have been plastic for a long while now. Asurmen is still finecast, but you can find his model in glorious metal still secondhand. 

They also just did Banshee and Jain Zar in plastic as well. Fingers crossed that they start working toward the other aspect warriors. 

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1 minute ago, Overread said:

Well Dire Avengers have been plastic for a long while now. 

''Turns rock over'' Ya don t say.

I m glad for the banshees but I prefer striking scorpions.I m mostly waiting for dark reapers and maugan ra(and I want him de chunked,to fat for a eldar). 

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Just now, The lord of murder said:

''Turns rock over'' Ya don t say.

I m glad for the banshees but I prefer striking scorpions.I m mostly waiting for dark reapers and maugan ra(and I want him de chunked,to fat for a eldar). 

Hey if you've been under a rock that long have a look at all the wraith models! Plastic waithwarriors and guard; and lords and knights! All modern plastics too. 

Also Maugan isn't fat - he's just big-boned! 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Overread said:

Hey if you've been under a rock that long have a look at all the wraith models! Plastic waithwarriors and guard; and lords and knights! All modern plastics too. 

Also Maugan isn't fat - he's just big-boned! 

Lel I know those are plastic but never cheked the dier avangers.Usually plastic=a bit of visual improvement.I think the avengers still look a bit derpy.

And he be Faaaaat!I'l D-spam ya!

Edited by The lord of murder

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1 hour ago, Overread said:

In my experience wargamers in general - both fantasy and 40K - take their lore "seriously" for "their armies" no matter what game system. However interestingly only a small percentage will take it further than the rulebook and battletome/codex level. Ergo far fewer will read books by Black Library.

 

That said I'd also say that BL has some bias built into it - for Old World and very much for AoS there's no real "central" faction that takes the full lions share of releases. As a result you get a lot of stories on everyone. In 40K there's a far heavier bias toward the Imperium factions. Even big and old races like Eldar have far fewer stories about them - although I get a feeling that (Horus Heresy stuff aside) this is slowly changing. 

Part of that is because when Black Library first started publishing, they actually had a directive in 40k that said only Imperial factions could be protagonists in the books.  They decided that the other factions were to alien in thought, and they wanted you to feel more for the Imperium since their are no real good guys in 40k.  Conversely, especially with the Gotrek and Felix book Trollslayer, you started off the Fantasy side saying "these factions are the good guy factions, these are the bad."  I also think the massive popularity of Gilead's Blood so early on helped spur this, but that might be my elf bias showing.

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6 hours ago, Overread said:

At least it holds true for the original creatures; those born in the realms are likely many many generations removed from them (depending when they settle from the arks). 

Skaven at much the same as the Great Horned One basically grabbed their huge midden of a home and threw it into the Mortal Realms underside. Of course skaven are not well known for living long lives, so chances are only the Vermin Lords would recall the past and they likely don't bother with it. I believe only Thanquol and perhaps Ikit Claw have survived and would recall the world of old (with Thanquol outraged that a certain Dwarf might also have survived). 

I think what makes the Seraphon different is that they have both some original Slann with the relevant knowledge of the universe, not just Lustria, and are deeply conservative and backward looking. Skaven don't really do that, daemons live in something like an eternal present, and even folks like Nagash are hazy, or like the mortarchs who have questionable independence (which is an ambiguity I also find fascinating about them, that question of how much are they themselves and how much Nagash). With the Slann there's no mysterious waking up or reincarnating, they literally came to the realms, giving them a much straighter continuity.

Moreover depending on the older background you read and what they do with Kroak now, some might not have even been native to the WH world in the first place, instead arriving with the old ones, making them impossibly more ancient than anyone else. The End Times weren;t the first apocalyptic disaster Kroak saw.

There's also volume. Rather than just being a handful of lords or some elves basing their culture on what Teclis told them, they came to the realms in great artefact-ships from the world-that-was, as a large scale culture of who knows how many thousands of lizardmen in stasis. Granted most are going to be newly spawned but there's still a depth of connection there and a real ancientness. Combine that with their innate conservatism, how they want to make their bits of the realms like Lustria and some elements of them at least are the closest thing to direct large scale WH transplant to AoS, as opposed to a few scattered callbacks.

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Posted (edited)
Just now, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

From what I understand — I may well be wrong on this — the Mortarchs aren’t quite the same as those who walked before them in the world-that-was.

The way I understood it, they are Nagash’s memories made manifest, tied to him (and his will) more strongly than ever before. Nagash needed generals to lead his armies, and his memories of the Mortarchs’ victories (and some other notable characters — the Blood Dragon and Ushoran, for example) weren’t entirely dissatisfactory, and so in true Undead style he brought them back to serve him again. 

I’d love if someone who knew more about this stuff could expand on it for me!

EDIT: That Seraphon artwork in the Community article is gorgeous!

Yeah, Shinros wrote about that very thing in his AoS lore summaries from interviews with Josh Reynolds since he's such a big Nagash fan he's practically a Mortarch himself. :D (messaging him for more recent info would probably be a good idea on that since this info from several years back)

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/710601.page

"Question:So in a previous question you said Mannfred is not really the "original"? Or do you mean possibly did nagash revive the old mortarch's and may have changed them slightly to suit him as servants? The death tome says their bloodlines reach back beyond, far older than the age of myth. Can you explain?

Josh: Sure. Mannfred died during the End Times. So did the other Mortarchs. But all of the Mortarchs were part of Nagash (there's a reason the ancient vampires series was called 'The Blood of Nagash'...) in some fashion. They were him, and he was them. In their blood or in their souls. All are one in Nagash isn't just a boast - it's a promise."

"One more question during the end times Arkhan noted when he looked upon Krell and Mannfred he saw they bore the shadow of nagash just like him. I guess neferata also going by the events by her book. Did this mark them out as "special"? Where nagash would choose them as his chief generals in aos?"

It was more that they all bore some fragment of Nagash's power within them, rather than any indication of 'special-ness'. Nagash chose them because of all the souls he was linked to, they were the most effective tools to hand, for his needs.

Think about it this way: Anyone who has been resurrected or empowered by Nagash, even at a remove (like Neferata), has some trace of him, however slight, in them, and it casts a pall over their soul. Think of him like a memetic virus - once you put on the crown of sorcery, read the books of Nagash or use the life-prolonging elixir, his shadow is on you, and you are part of him, whether you like it or not.

Sometimes you can stave his influence off, or subvert it, but in most cases, his mind and will are going to eventually overwrite your own, making you his puppet.
Nagash is all, and all are one in Nagash, remember? "

So it's more accurate to say the Mortarch's were reborn in the mortal realms rather than continuations of their previous selves since Nagash reformed them from his own essence and the connection they share.

 

Edit: Also fully agreed on the Seraphon artwork! Having their city in the realm of fire was a brilliant contrast to their usual green jungle and blue celestial themes. :D

Edited by Baron Klatz
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I hear an update of vampires with mortarchs and vlozd ahead of their own personalized subfactions is somewhere on the distant horizon 

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16 minutes ago, Cambot1231 said:

I hear an update of vampires with mortarchs and vlozd ahead of their own personalized subfactions is somewhere on the distant horizon 

I don't think we've had any confirmed rumour, but it is a very logical step that many (including myself) assume will happen at some stage. Especially considering how its about the last concept in Death that hasn't got its own army (outside of a dedicated skeleton army* which could be part of vampires or its own thing. 

 

 

*Remembering that Ossiarchs are made from bone but aren't your traditional skeleton army. 

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5 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

Checked the community site for the 2nd time today and was pleasantly surprised to see the Seraphon lore! But then it dawned on me... Space Wolves are a single chapter of Space Marines, and yet have had 3 different lore tidbits (2 PA shorts plus a part 1 today).

Does it annoy anyone else that GW is churning out lore content for 40k but for AOS it feels like we're being drip fed? Is it because of PA specifically?

To give a bit of context, there have been 23 psychic awakening short stories so far. Malign portents had 50. The lore articles are just summaries of existing content.

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3 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

 

Edit: Also fully agreed on the Seraphon artwork! Having their city in the realm of fire was a brilliant contrast to their usual green jungle and blue celestial themes. :D

The way I read it, they terraform the area around temples in the realm to inhospitable jungles. So there’s probably themy differences but that gives is it room to fit in every realm. 

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@Cambot1231 Man, I hope so.  None of the current Death factions really speak to me like vampires do.  Though I'm kind of hoping they'll break away from the old Blood Dragon type army.  I'd like something like the Vampire Coasts, with Realm roving steampunk Vampire Pirates!

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