The Rumour Thread

[Icegoat]

I just don't get why GW haven't released more for their new dwarf factions? Any person who plays age of sigmar could come up with three new units for FYreslayers and kharadron that would be cool. Magma monsters? smaller lizard cavalry? Fire cannon? Kharadron you can basically do whatever you want as they have near enough modern tech. Large battlesuit? Submarine? Machine gun battery? Mechanical cavalry? Instead they are left to languish on the two boxes of troops they got each four years ago? The kharadron essentials have still not sold out online and tzeentchs went very quickly. The poor duardin didn't even get dice. The kharadron are officially now the least supported army in age of sigmar 2.0 no scenery no dice, no spells and a model range that in terms of unique bodies is around 20 total. 

Such minimal support is astounding. Oh well I'm sure the next storm cast chamber will open to fight the pointy elves in the summer. Kharadron deserve better. 

[novakai]

38 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

 The kharadron are officially now the least supported army in age of sigmar 2.0 no scenery no dice, no spells and a model range that in terms of unique bodies is around 20 total. 

Ironjawz said hi

[Vasshpit]

Just waiting for the next starter set box with all new Stormcast chamber minis and just a bunch of Ardboyz for the Ironjawz side!!😄

Edited January 5, 2020 by Vasshpit

[Kirjava13]

51 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

I just don't get why GW haven't released more for their new dwarf factions? Any person who plays age of sigmar could come up with three new units for FYreslayers and kharadron that would be cool. Magma monsters? smaller lizard cavalry? Fire cannon? Kharadron you can basically do whatever you want as they have near enough modern tech. Large battlesuit? Submarine? Machine gun battery? Mechanical cavalry? Instead they are left to languish on the two boxes of troops they got each four years ago? The kharadron essentials have still not sold out online and tzeentchs went very quickly. The poor duardin didn't even get dice. The kharadron are officially now the least supported army in age of sigmar 2.0 no scenery no dice, no spells and a model range that in terms of unique bodies is around 20 total. 

Such minimal support is astounding. Oh well I'm sure the next storm cast chamber will open to fight the pointy elves in the summer. Kharadron deserve better. 

I think this qualifies for "Sanest Thing You've Ever Said".

[trolemon]

42 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

 The kharadron are officially now the least supported army in age of sigmar 2.0 no scenery no dice, no spells and a model range that in terms of unique bodies is around 20 total.

 

4 minutes ago, novakai said:

Ironjawz said hi

I agree with novakai. While it is disappointing that you did not get scenery, dice, or spells, Ironjawz (as part of Orruk Warclans) also got no scenery, dice, or spells. You however, did get a new kit/scroll in the Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit with Aether War, so its not like you didn't get anything.

Your model range is also much more diverse than that of Ironjawz:

• Kharadron has 3 troop kits for 4 warscrolls. Ironjawz have 3 troop kits for 3 warscrolls.
• Kharadron have 6 hero kits (including the one from Aether War) for 6 warscrolls. Ironjawz have 4 hero kits for 5 warscrolls.
• Both factions have a single Warhammer Underworlds warband kit.
• Kharadron have 3 ship kits.

So overall, Kharadron have 13 kits and 15 warscrolls, Ironjawz have 8 kits and 9 warscrolls.

Its clear Kharadron have the more diverse range. Kharadron kits are also newer, with an average release date of August 2017. The average release date for Ironjawz kits is May 2015.

If you include the Bonesplitterz units for the complete Orruk Warclans options:

• Bonesplitterz have 2 troop kits for 6 warscrolls
• Bonesplitterz have 4 hero kits for 4 warscrolls (3 resin kits)

This brings Orruk Warclans to 14 kits and 19 warscrolls, which is only one more kit than Kharadron. (Average release date drops to November 2012 though). However, given the resin kits present in Bonesplitterz, one of which is from twenty years ago (Wardokk is from 2000), and the fact that Warclans got nothing with their release, not even a new hero in a battlebox like Kharadron, I don't think you have the right to complain about lack of support.

The rules for both factions seem pretty good tho, so its not all bad news.

 

[Turragor]

 

...I'm too old to be messing with these stupid memes...

Edited January 6, 2020 by Turragor

[MitGas]

51 minutes ago, trolemon said:

 

I agree with novakai. While it is disappointing that you did not get scenery, dice, or spells, Ironjawz (as part of Orruk Warclans) also got no scenery, dice, or spells. You however, did get a new kit/scroll in the Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit with Aether War, so its not like you didn't get anything.

Your model range is also much more diverse than that of Ironjawz:

• Kharadron has 3 troop kits for 4 warscrolls. Ironjawz have 3 troop kits for 3 warscrolls.
• Kharadron have 6 hero kits (including the one from Aether War) for 6 warscrolls. Ironjawz have 4 hero kits for 5 warscrolls.
• Both factions have a single Warhammer Underworlds warband kit.
• Kharadron have 3 ship kits.

So overall, Kharadron have 13 kits and 15 warscrolls, Ironjawz have 8 kits and 9 warscrolls.

Its clear Kharadron have the more diverse range. Kharadron kits are also newer, with an average release date of August 2017. The average release date for Ironjawz kits is May 2015.

If you include the Bonesplitterz units for the complete Orruk Warclans options:

• Bonesplitterz have 2 troop kits for 6 warscrolls
• Bonesplitterz have 4 hero kits for 4 warscrolls (3 resin kits)

This brings Orruk Warclans to 14 kits and 19 warscrolls, which is only one more kit than Kharadron. (Average release date drops to November 2012 though). However, given the resin kits present in Bonesplitterz, one of which is from twenty years ago (Wardokk is from 2000), and the fact that Warclans got nothing with their release, not even a new hero in a battlebox like Kharadron, I don't think you have the right to complain about lack of support.

The rules for both factions seem pretty good tho, so its not all bad news.

 

Well, ideally both armies (as well as IDK and FS) would get new toys/units... at least they should before we get another Stormcast chamber. And some of the older armies like Skaven and Seraphon could also use some love. Just IMO.

[Overread]

The core problem orruks have is that both armies are basically the same thing more or less. One is just light armour and the other heavy armour. Even their cavalry are the same concept. It's a little bit like how there's space marines and space marine primaris.

 

I really hope Orruks on both halves get some new models that makes each far more unique to the next so that those who choose to go one or the other have more visual and story identity to their side. 

[Dirtnaps]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

Just waiting for the next starter set box with all new Stormcast chamber minis and just a bunch of Ardboyz for the Ironjawz side!!😄

What if this time instead of the new starter set just being Stormcast they instead did a Cities of Sigmar (with stormcast and a couple new sculpts for existing CoS units) vs Orruk Warclans to go along with the narrative revolving around the aftermath of Gordrakk trying to bust his way into Azyr by attacking Excelsis. Now that's a box I'd like to see, they could even add in some rules for Excelsis that could maybe be put in the next generals handbook.

[Turragor]

3 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:

What if this time instead of the new starter set just being Stormcast they instead did a Cities of Sigmar (with stormcast and a couple new sculpts for existing CoS units) vs Orruk Warclans to go along with the narrative revolving around the aftermath of Gordrakk trying to bust his way into Azyr by attacking Excelsis. Now that's a box I'd like to see, they could even add in some rules for Excelsis that could maybe be put in the next generals handbook.

Y'know, that got me thinking...

What if they do a boxset that's just two different Stormhosts against each other each led by a stardrake?

They could call it "Serpents Entwined" and have it loaded with innuendo.

I'm 100% ready even if I've already got multiples of nearly every Stormhost unit and I'd have 5 Stardrakes after buying it.

[Clif Blunderbrows]

10 hours ago, michu said:

Yeah, people think that "summoned memories" and "spawning pools" are mutually exclusive.

Exactly this. It makes perfect sense to me given the history of the Lizardmen in the Old World and the new reality of the Mortal Realms that BOTH would be the case, no retconning needed! If the original Seraphon are the memories of the Lizardmen that existed previously, then there’s presumably a hard cap on how many can be summoned (the number of skinks/saurus that existed in Lustria before the world asploded). Knowing that each Mortal Realm is something like 8 times the size of the ENTIRE old world, the need to create new, non-remembered Seraphon to secure/protect the interests of the Slann seems obvious. 
 

Anyway, sorry to dig up that horse again. My neck beard gets itchy when folks talk like it has to be one way or the other 😛

[trolemon]

29 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Well, ideally both armies (as well as IDK and FS) would get new toys/units... at least they should before we get another Stormcast chamber. And some of the older armies like Skaven and Seraphon could also use some love. Just IMO.

I've been working on a spreadsheet for warscrolls, what kit makes them, and the material/age of the kit to try and figure out what armies need updating the most and heres a rough overview of what ive got so far:

Average Kit Age (Oldest to Newest)

• Seraphon (May 2008)
• Ogor Mawtribes (September 2008)
• Skaven (February 2009)
• Legions of Nagash (August 2009)
• Beasts of Chaos (February 2011)
• Cities of Sigmar (October 2011)
• Orruk Warclans (November 2012)
• Slaves to Darkness (August 2013)
• Maggotkin of Nurgle (March 2014)
• Disciples of Tzeentch (August 2014)
• Flesh-Eater Courts (August 2014)
• Gloomspite Gitz (March 2015)
• Blades of Khorne (March 2015)
• Sylvaneth (October 2015)
• Daughters of Khaine (December 2015)
• Hedonites of Slaanesh (April 2016)
• Fyreslayers (November 2016)
• Stormcast Eternals (January 2017)
• Nighthaunt (May 2017)
• Kharadron Overlords (August 2017)
• Idoneth Deepkin (April 2018)
• Ossiarch Bonereapers (November 2018)

All-Plastic Armies

• Cities of Sigmar
• Daughters of Khaine
• Fyreslayers
• Idoneth Deepkin
• Kharadron Overlords
• Nighthaunt
• Ossiarch Bonereapers
• Stormcast Eternals

Armies with the most Finecast Kits (Most to Least)

• Seraphon (12 kits)
• Ogor Mawtribes (8 kits)
• Beasts of Chaos (7 kits)
• Skaven (6 kits)
• Legions of Nagash (5 kits)
• Blades of Khorne (4 kits)
• Maggotkin of Nurgle (4 kits)
• Slaves to Darkness (4 kits)
• Disciples of Tzeentch (3 kits)
• Orruk Warclans (3 kits)
• Gloomspite Gitz (2 kits)
• Flesh-Eater Courts (1 kit)
• Hedonites of Slaanesh (1 kit)
• Sylvaneth (1 kit)

Armies with the most Metal Kits (Most to Least)

• Skaven (7 kits)
• Gloomspite Gitz (1 kit)
• Legions of Nagash (1 kit)

Armies with the most Non-Plastic Kits (Most to Least)

• Skaven (13 kits)
• Seraphon (12 kits)
• Ogor Mawtribes (8 kits)
• Beasts of Chaos (7 kits)
• Legions of Nagash (6 kits)
• Blades of Khorne (4 kits)
• Maggotkin of Nurgle (4 kits)
• Slaves to Darkness (4 kits)
• Disciples of Tzeentch (3 kits)
• Gloomspite Gitz (3 kits)
• Orruk Warclans (3 kits)
• Flesh-Eater Courts (1 kit)
• Hedonites of Slaanesh (1 kit)
• Sylvaneth (1 kit)

Armies with the Fewest Total Kits (Least to Most)

• Daughters of Khaine (6 kits)
• Flesh-Eater Courts (8 kits)
• Fyreslayers (10 kits)
• Idoneth Deepkin (12 kits)
• Hedonites of Slaanesh (13 kits)
• Kharadron Overlords (13 kits)
• Sylvaneth (14 kits)
• Orruk Warclans (14 kits)
• Ossiarch Bonereapers (16 kits)
• Ogor Mawtribes (17 kits)
• Disciples of Tzeentch (21 kits)
• Maggotkin of Nurgle (21 kits)
• Nighthaunt (21 kits)
• Seraphon (22 kits)
• Legions of Nagash (24 kits)
• Beasts of Chaos (25 kits)
• Gloomspite Gitz (25 kits)
• Blades of Khorne (26 kits)
• Skaven (31 kits)
• Slaves to Darkness (32 kits)
• Cities of Sigmar (35 kits)
• Stormcast Eternals (37 kits)

Armies with the Fewest Warscrolls (Least to Most)

• Daughters of Khaine (15 warscrolls)
• Idoneth Deepkin (15 warscrolls)
• Kharadron Overlords (15 warscrolls)
• Fyreslayers (18 warscrolls)
• Flesh-Eater Courts (19 warscrolls)
• Orruk Warclans (19 warscrolls)
• Ossiarch Bonereapers (21 warscrolls)
• Sylvaneth (21 warscrolls)
• Hedonites of Slaanesh (22 warscrolls)
• Ogor Mawtribes (23 warscrolls)
• Maggotkin of Nurgle (25 warscrolls)
• Nighthaunt (26 warscrolls)
• Seraphon (27 warscrolls)
• Beasts of Chaos (32 warscrolls)
• Disciples of Tzeentch (32 warscrolls)
• Legions of Nagash (34 warscrolls)
• Blades of Khorne (38 warscrolls)
• Slaves to Darkness (39 warscrolls)
• Gloomspite Gitz (42 warscrolls)
• Skaven (43 warscrolls)
• Stormcast Eternals (54 warscrolls)
• Cities of Sigmar (59 warscrolls)

Top 15 Oldest Kit Releases Still in Circulation (Oldest to Newest)

• Skaven - Skryre Acolytes (April 1994)
• Skaven - Warpfire Thrower (May 1995)
• Legions of Nagash - Bat Swarms (July 1997)
• Legions of Nagash - Legion Black Coach (June 1999)
• Legions of Nagash - Fell Bats & Zombies (July 1999)
• Orruk Warclans - Wardokk (December 2000)
• Skaven - Night Runners (March 2002)
• Skaven - Warlock Engineer, Ratling Gun & Warplock Jezzails (April 2002)
• Skaven - Gutter Runners & Rat Swarms (May 2002)
• Slaves to Darkness - Chaos Marauders (June 2002)
• Maggotkin of Nurgle - Harbinger of Decay (August 2002)
• Disciples of Tzeentch - Fatemaster (September 2002)
• Seraphon - Slaan Starmaster, Chameleon Skinks, Saurus Warriors & Skinks (May 2003)
• Seraphon - Skink Handlers & Salamanders (June 2003)
• Seraphon - Lord Kroak (July 2003)

I hope all these different metrics are useful for the rumourmongering and wishlisting!

Edited January 6, 2020 by trolemon

[Thiagoma]

Wow that is a lot of info!

[123lac]

5 hours ago, Icegoat said:

I just don't get why GW haven't released more for their new dwarf factions? Any person who plays age of sigmar could come up with three new units for FYreslayers and kharadron that would be cool. Magma monsters? smaller lizard cavalry? Fire cannon? Kharadron you can basically do whatever you want as they have near enough modern tech. Large battlesuit? Submarine? Machine gun battery? Mechanical cavalry? Instead they are left to languish on the two boxes of troops they got each four years ago? The kharadron essentials have still not sold out online and tzeentchs went very quickly. The poor duardin didn't even get dice. The kharadron are officially now the least supported army in age of sigmar 2.0 no scenery no dice, no spells and a model range that in terms of unique bodies is around 20 total. 

Such minimal support is astounding. Oh well I'm sure the next storm cast chamber will open to fight the pointy elves in the summer. Kharadron deserve better. 

I like your suggestions for new models, particularly for the Fyreslayers.

But I don't think that the absence of overpriced dice is an issue lol.

Scenery and endless spells (inventions?) would have been cool for KO I admit.

But at the end of the day I don't really think of KO as neglected. The models that they do have are awesome and still very new. As long as the rules in their new battle tome are good then I don't really see the problem.

 

[Chikout]

So in terms of kits and warscrolls DoK is actually the least supported faction. Ko has a wide variety of good looking kits. A decent variety of warscrolls and some unique play mechanics. There's some talk from people who I usually trust about the new book being weak but I don't see it. In my eyes the future for Ko is pretty bright.

[Zanzou]

4 hours ago, trolemon said:

I've been working on a spreadsheet for warscrolls, what kit makes them, and the material/age of the kit to try and figure out what armies need updating the most and heres a rough overview of what ive got so far:

This 100% deserves its own thread.

[willange]

Anyone else not able to view the new warscrolls on the GW site?  I want to preview the new Kharadron and Tzeentch rules.

[zilberfrid]

6 hours ago, Dirtnaps said:

What if this time instead of the new starter set just being Stormcast they instead did a Cities of Sigmar (with stormcast and a couple new sculpts for existing CoS units) vs Orruk Warclans to go along with the narrative revolving around the aftermath of Gordrakk trying to bust his way into Azyr by attacking Excelsis. Now that's a box I'd like to see, they could even add in some rules for Excelsis that could maybe be put in the next generals handbook.

They already killed off the Excelsior Warpriest by making him Stormcast. I expect Excelsior being destroyed to be a lore/book thing instead of having models ore rules.

Would love it though, we really need new crossbowmen.

[Charleston]

@trolemon thanks for the listing! Some interesting data Also, OBR are from Nov 2019, not 2018.

I find it interesting how subjective feeling of an army having enough Warscrolls is. Factions with 15, which seems like GW-min for new factions, really feel "thin". In my personal opinion, the Gutbusters book feels just about right with the listed 23 Warscrolls. Meanwhile Slaanesh seems "thing" on Warscrolls again, while having 22 according to this list. Meanwhile, having roughly 20+ Warscrolls should make a faction feel more fleshed out I guess, which is why the lack of new kits for Fyreslayers, IDK, Daughters or KO feels like such a big issue right now.

 

[Kasper]

I personally dont see the value in the amount of kits/warscrolls an army has. Yes, in a perfect World it would matter and give you more choices and options. As it is, it just means an illusion of choice and more pages to go through when army building. Cities doesnt have 59 proper warscrolls to pick from in reality.

[The World Tree]

2 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I personally dont see the value in the amount of kits/warscrolls an army has. Yes, in a perfect World it would matter and give you more choices and options. As it is, it just means an illusion of choice and more pages to go through when army building. Cities doesnt have 59 proper warscrolls to pick from in reality.

Quality not quantity. Every warscroll in Sylvaneth has value - that is good design. (Yes, even the Branchwych, it is still an 80pt mage)

[SleeperAgent]

25 minutes ago, Charleston said:

@trolemon thanks for the listing! Some interesting data Also, OBR are from Nov 2019, not 2018.

I find it interesting how subjective feeling of an army having enough Warscrolls is. Factions with 15, which seems like GW-min for new factions, really feel "thin". In my personal opinion, the Gutbusters book feels just about right with the listed 23 Warscrolls. Meanwhile Slaanesh seems "thing" on Warscrolls again, while having 22 according to this list. Meanwhile, having roughly 20+ Warscrolls should make a faction feel more fleshed out I guess, which is why the lack of new kits for Fyreslayers, IDK, Daughters or KO feels like such a big issue right now.

 

Average kit age takes into account Morghast, Nagash, and Arkhan.  Those are much older.

[zilberfrid]

59 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I personally dont see the value in the amount of kits/warscrolls an army has. Yes, in a perfect World it would matter and give you more choices and options. As it is, it just means an illusion of choice and more pages to go through when army building. Cities doesnt have 59 proper warscrolls to pick from in reality.

Cities has about 55 warscrolls to choose from, apart from Phoenix Guard, Drakespawn and Executioners, the balance is quite good.

Now when you start your list and start choosing city, general and other units, the options thin down a lot, but that's normal.

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Just going to make a few points.

First and foremost gone are the days where we must buy every release that comes out.  There's just too much stuff being released to keep up. 

Not everybody is going to view the latest release as fantastic, however please remember that this is your own opinion based on your own gaming & hobby.  We don't know how well products are actually selling across the world, your own interpretation may be that a product isn't selling very well, when in reality it could just be something local to you.  We also don't know what GW's expectations are, I'm sure the numbers produced of each boxed set aren't going to be identical and "perfect" for this type of product would be that it doesn't immediately sell out, but is getting to the last items of stock when the next similar product is released.

Also don't forget that products are designed and decided months/years in advance, even if this is a complete flop, it's highly unlikely that this will actually affect releases that are ready to be released this year.

Secondly, can we pull this back to rumours please!

[Kasper]

10 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Cities has about 55 warscrolls to choose from, apart from Phoenix Guard, Drakespawn and Executioners, the balance is quite good.

Now when you start your list and start choosing city, general and other units, the options thin down a lot, but that's normal.

Not really. A lot of the warscrolls are flat out terrible/significantly worse than others, hence the "illusion of choice" and why in reality you're looking at significantly fewer warscrolls.