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6 minutes ago, Jymmy said:

So they can force people to buy the multicomponent boxes if they want all the options. Make perfect sense.

It would take them back to being specifically "start" collecting sets, rather than "continue" collecting.  You're right, it does make sense.  Your first thing for a new army would be 1-2 SC boxes, but beyond that they'd prefer you buy model kits one at a time.

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I guess I am hoping the community article is poorly worded? But I think if they were coming out with a multi-part version, they would have said that also.  So that sort of stinks.

Puts a damper on the release to be honest.  Although I am pumped about the SC box, I was hoping to finally update all the very very old warrior models.

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Not sure how successful that will be if the don’t update the kits for warriors and knights. I’d rather buy more start collecting boxes than use the old static versions.

Maybe that’s the point.

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49 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Keeping old Chosen (when they could easily make new ones by ripping off their own Varanguard kit, GW is into copy/paste these days anyways) and not doing a new multipart kit for Warriors (like they (and I before them) said - the most iconic Warhammer Fantasy unit) seems kinda dumb to me to be honest. But whatever, I'm fine with it as these will be good enough for conversions. Still a dubious move when this army sold me more than a few others combined back in WHFB days and would now sell more than fringe group factions like Fyreslayers or Idoneth Deepkin.... I don't get it but perhaps they know something we don't or maybe most heavily armored Chaos warrior fans went on to collect Khorne and Nurgle and won't bother switching now. There's gotta be some reason as they're not exactly allergic to money.

There are many things we do not know yet. What will happen to the weapon options for knights and warriors? Are we stuck using old warriors for banners and musicians? Will the new lord replace the old? What is the deal with a flail being a weapon option for a lord on foot? Is he on a larger base in today's picture? Will we get more kits in a new year? How will the warcry units mix into the book? What is the cultist keyword? How awesome will Archeon be? How will marks work? Will we get god-aligned battalions? Chosen might remain the same models or not, but aren't they resin? New GW doesn't like resin.

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3 hours ago, madmac said:

The thing is, GW was steadily removing models the first half of the year. Gloomspite was accompanied by the generic Orc/Gobbo purge, Skaven and Slaanesh both lost some models, people were bracing for more finecast models to be cut before CoS was even announced. Then the Orruk/Ogor books came out without losing a single model, and from the looks of things same for STD. It's a bit of an odd swerve even counting CoS as a unique case.

Yea, it was sad to see the Greenskins go (I have quite a few) and the Grots ( though mine are now Gitz), but they were whole factions retired with no book.  As far as I'm aware, the only Skaven models stopped were those only available in Spire of Dawn, which were mixed in with High Aelves.  Not sure why Slaanesh models went, but it seems to me that there are different reasons each time rather than a trend and only as a necessity.  I think GW have been making an effort to keep models where possible, which, despite the fact that I now have many minis consigned to boxes, is a laudable thing.

I suppose the next test for model replacement or removal will be the Slaan.

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So what is actually wrong with the old models? I often see people complain that kits need an update, but often I'm not convinced that they are actually bwd, just that their style isn't the current fashion. Just had a look at knights and warriors, and sure the new kits have more details, but the old kits still have a very ironic look, realised very well. They are nit zombies, or even their marauder allies who look a little derpy. I can see why you'd want as much detail as possible, but in a sense that style of model tends to be monopose, or "duopose", as we see with new ranges like idoneth. The new standard of detal just doesn't lend itself to true multi part troop kits. 

In a sense it feels like we 're getting the best of bith worlds. We have new hyper detailed squads, but still have the more varied kits to make up numbers, add variety and be quick to paint, so that you can lavish details on the new models.

I feel like this is how it used to work when multipart plastic kits first came in. You could focus on the monopose metal models as champions and the frknt rank, and fill out the squad with lower quality plastic soldiers. We've just arrived at the point where it's happening in reverse now.

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52 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

So what is actually wrong with the old models? I often see people complain that kits need an update, but often I'm not convinced that they are actually bwd, just that their style isn't the current fashion. Just had a look at knights and warriors, and sure the new kits have more details, but the old kits still have a very ironic look, realised very well. They are nit zombies, or even their marauder allies who look a little derpy. I can see why you'd want as much detail as possible, but in a sense that style of model tends to be monopose, or "duopose", as we see with new ranges like idoneth. The new standard of detal just doesn't lend itself to true multi part troop kits. 

In a sense it feels like we 're getting the best of bith worlds. We have new hyper detailed squads, but still have the more varied kits to make up numbers, add variety and be quick to paint, so that you can lavish details on the new models.

I feel like this is how it used to work when multipart plastic kits first came in. You could focus on the monopose metal models as champions and the frknt rank, and fill out the squad with lower quality plastic soldiers. We've just arrived at the point where it's happening in reverse now.

Did you look at the actual miniatures and sprews? Because the warriors really don't hold up so well in person. They are really low detail in the parts that aren't immediatly noticably and that, combined with their blocky static pose, means there is very little a modeller can actually do with them.

I remember thinking they held up quite well myself until I help the actually held them in my hards and found they couldn't measure up in any regard even to monopose original starter set liberators.

 

Knights are better, I think they could have easily gotten away with not updating them for quite a few years to come. But now there's the problem that there's new knights and old knights and the two won't really mesh with each other at all, the very different proportions on the mounts alone will see to that.

 

So yeah, I'm not exactly happy they seem to be pulling another Dark Vengeance on us (on on Chaos again as well). Still the SC provides some really nice miniatures at a presumably a very decent price and a new lord choice (always welcome).

I propably would have gotten  far more Warriors with a new Multipart and I might not pull the trigger on the SC right away either, which would have been assured with more incoming next year.

 

Still, I'm confident I could turn out twenty unique warriors and Knights from the SC given time, and that is likely all the Warriors I need for my Slaanesh for a long time, while I've already started on custom Warriors for Tzeentch, though at my current rate they'll be complete in a decade.

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My understanding is that there will be multipart releases of the SC set around March. 
I have no issues with easy to build start collecting sets. Obviously it's a shift in direction from the current SC sets.... Ideally the easy to build ones would be a bit cheaper. Some of the easy to build nighthaunt stuff is significantly cheaper than similar multipart kits, which makes sense. 

This is good from a barrier to entry point of view. I know right now we all look at SC sets and good bundle deals with a discount, but that's not really their intention is it. 
I'd be very, very happy if we got new SC kits for other factions that were new sculpts but cheaper boxes. Even if they're mono-pose. 

It's nice the new warriors come with different head options. It's also not going to be hard to swap their weapons around with some khorne warrior ones or tzeentch/nurgle themed ones. You can make some of the mono-pose minis stretch quite far imo. It does't take much to add a splash of uniqueness. I personally hate having two identical models so I convert almost everything. 

That being said, I don't think the old warriors and knights were that bad. They weren't amazing but they are by far not the worst or oldest models around. Skaven and Seraphon have heaps of stuff that desperately needs more of an update. Skaven got shafted with no new models and we're yet to see what they do for Seraphon but I doubt it will be more than a 2.0 battletome and maybe endless spells/terrain. 
It's interesting they chose these warriors and knights for a refresh despite lots of other kits needing it much more. 
They could have defacto refreshed warriors via the warcry warband, but instead we got  mostly naked barbarians with a helmet and shoulder pads.  

Edited by Inquisitorsz

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Call me pessimistic, but I think that making the things monopose will not diminish its price. People were hoping the same during the transition from metal to plastic and turns out that things are even more expensive after the change. The Slaves SC is not cheaper than other non easy to build ones and I’m not sure if nighthaunt are the best example of cheap easy to build, as chainrasp are expensive as hell.

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3 hours ago, Austin said:

I guess I am hoping the community article is poorly worded? But I think if they were coming out with a multi-part version, they would have said that also.  So that sort of stinks.

Puts a damper on the release to be honest.  Although I am pumped about the SC box, I was hoping to finally update all the very very old warrior models.

I think people could be reading a bit too much into the wording. Is a multi-part kit coming out next month? Almost certainly not. However, I don't think this language is meant to be interpreted that one isn't coming out at all next year. 

If there truly aren't any more new kits coming out for the next few years, that would certainly be disappointing, but at the same time there are so many things that could still use new models, I'd prefer if they did 3 new kits for 10 armies instead of 10 new kits for 3 armies and slowly improve the quality of each army range.

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1 hour ago, Inquisitorsz said:

My understanding is that there will be multipart releases of the SC set around March. 
I have no issues with easy to build start collecting sets. Obviously it's a shift in direction from the current SC sets.... Ideally the easy to build ones would be a bit cheaper. Some of the easy to build nighthaunt stuff is significantly cheaper than similar multipart kits, which makes sense. 

Any source or basis for that "understanding"?

Edited by Nighthaunt Noob

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17 minutes ago, Jymmy said:

Call me pessimistic, but I think that making the things monopose will not diminish its price. People were hoping the same during the transition from metal to plastic and turns out that things are even more expensive after the change. The Slaves SC is not cheaper than other non easy to build ones and I’m not sure if nighthaunt are the best example of cheap easy to build, as chainrasp are expensive as hell.

Are they cheap as a start collecting? No. Are they cheap compared to what a box of 10 warriors, a box of 5 mounted models, and a unique hero box would cost? Absolutely. Probably somewhere between a 35 to 50% discount on what 3 boxes like that would cost separately, and other start collectings can't boast brand new, fantastic sculpts.

Edited by Nighthaunt Noob

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16 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

Any source or basis for that "understanding"?

Heard from a friend who has some contacts but certainly nothing concrete. I'm no rumormonger. Maybe @Whitefang knows more? 

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35 minutes ago, Jymmy said:

Call me pessimistic, but I think that making the things monopose will not diminish its price. People were hoping the same during the transition from metal to plastic and turns out that things are even more expensive after the change. The Slaves SC is not cheaper than other non easy to build ones and I’m not sure if nighthaunt are the best example of cheap easy to build, as chainrasp are expensive as hell.

I think it's just some of the nighthaunt stuff is oddly priced actually. The dreadblade harrows and myrmourn banshees are very cheap compared to similar units. 
The easy to build Reikenor and his stormcast counterpart are a fair bit cheaper than other similar size characters. 
You're right that chainrasps are stupid expensive, but they're almost the same cost as other elite units like bladegheists and reapers (which while not easy to build are mono-pose).   

It's hard to compare units of different size, but a lot of the full kit stormcast units are around $98-105 AUD, while the nighthaunt units are $70-77 ish....  

Pricing is tricky because it also takes into account expected sales.... most chainrasps will come from the soul wars boxes (or from lots of online sellers splitting the boxes out). So the solo box is likely to sell very few units, thus the higher price. It's a bit of a catch 22 but that's probably the only way they can justify having it on the shelf.  

Kharadron are also units of ten and cost the same as nighthaunt, but deepkin narmati thralls cost more.... both are relatively new multi part kits with some options, so it's all a bit weird. 
Fyrelesayers kits a heaps more expensive per model, with 5 man units costing the same as other 10 man units.... perhaps it has to do with expected faction sales? I dunno. 

Anyway, the new OBR Mortek Guard box is a breath of fresh air. While on the expensive end of the scale, you get 20 models instead of 10 like most other boxes these days. 

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48 minutes ago, Jymmy said:

Call me pessimistic, but I think that making the things monopose will not diminish its price.

That's not pessimistic. That's just realizing that being monopose is not an element of price determination, which is as it should be.

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3 hours ago, Sleboda said:

That's not pessimistic. That's just realizing that being monopose is not an element of price determination, which is as it should be.

It can be. One could argue that mono-pose / easy-to-build miniatures are easier to design with simpler molds. Certainly not always they case, but even just nesting things on a sprue is easier when you have 3-4 bits per miniature instead of 15 + spare weapons and heads. 
Those kits are marketed towards new players as well, so having them priced more competitively makes sense. The pricing model for those kits is very different to say something like Archaon or Alarielle or FW products.   
Also, they know full well they can sell dual box kits and kits with lots of spare bits for more because the perceived value is higher. People will buy those kits more often to use for conversions and to kit bash with other products.   

Depending on your point of view, that either makes those kits cheaper because they sell higher quantities, or more expensive because your paying for more bits/value. 
Which one is true depends on which Chaos god is currently walking through Bugmans Bar. 

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2 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

It can be. One could argue that mono-pose / easy-to-build miniatures are easier to design with simpler molds. Certainly not always they case, but even just nesting things on a sprue is easier when you have 3-4 bits per miniature instead of 15 + spare weapons and heads. 
Those kits are marketed towards new players as well, so having them priced more competitively makes sense. The pricing model for those kits is very different to say something like Archaon or Alarielle or FW products.   
Also, they know full well they can sell dual box kits and kits with lots of spare bits for more because the perceived value is higher. People will buy those kits more often to use for conversions and to kit bash with other products.   

Depending on your point of view, that either makes those kits cheaper because they sell higher quantities, or more expensive because your paying for more bits/value. 
Which one is true depends on which Chaos god is currently walking through Bugmans Bar. 

A mould is expensive to cut regardless of if they’re easy to build or not. It’s not like the monopose/e2b sprues are any less complex or busy than the normal ones, the models are just cut up a different way. I might even argue easy build models specifically might be more difficult to design, as you have to cut the models in a way that allows the pins to hold them together. 

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31 minutes ago, Still-young said:

A mould is expensive to cut regardless of if they’re easy to build or not. It’s not like the monopose/e2b sprues are any less complex or busy than the normal ones, the models are just cut up a different way. I might even argue easy build models specifically might be more difficult to design, as you have to cut the models in a way that allows the pins to hold them together. 

Agree on this.  Speaking to sculptors at open days in the past, easy to build kits can often be more complex to design because the pose and how it's cut up are a lot more intrinsically linked than multi-part.

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I’m hoping GW will either say that multipart kits are coming next year (they are very clear on this with the sisters) OR confirm te start collecting set is going to be in stock for a long time. I want some StD for my next project, but I’m not nearly done on my current project (ogre warband).

I’d hate to miss out on the start collecting set and then find out there is no other way to get those models. I don’t want to buu a set now, just to have it lying around for a few months and distracting me from finishing something else. 

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7 minutes ago, elfhead said:

start collecting set is going to be in stock for a long time

SC! sets are not limited releases. They are going to stay.

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1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Agree on this.  Speaking to sculptors at open days in the past, easy to build kits can often be more complex to design because the pose and how it's cut up are a lot more intrinsically linked than multi-part.

I can agree on this.

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12 hours ago, Túrbóbelja said:

There are many things we do not know yet. What will happen to the weapon options for knights and warriors? Are we stuck using old warriors for banners and musicians? Will the new lord replace the old? What is the deal with a flail being a weapon option for a lord on foot? Is he on a larger base in today's picture? Will we get more kits in a new year? How will the warcry units mix into the book? What is the cultist keyword? How awesome will Archeon be? How will marks work? Will we get god-aligned battalions? Chosen might remain the same models or not, but aren't they resin? New GW doesn't like resin.

Perhaps they're keeping the old stuff in there (like the Chosen/old warriors) at the start so that those plastic/resin kits get sold before they bring out new Chosen/mp warriors. Which would really ****** potential customers off. :/ That would just make some guys bitter. 

Maybe there's a better reason for it and Chosen will get an upgrade and become more integrable into mono-god lists, y'know as in chosen by their patron. Still, a trickling release for STD units that won't have overlap (as in monopose and new multi-part warriors) is a weird decision. Unless the new Chosen would be so much cooler nobody would ever buy regular Warriors again. 

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5 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

Depending on your point of view, that either makes those kits cheaper because they sell higher quantities, or more expensive because your paying for more bits/value. 

Two other factors as well.

1. Some folks place extra value on models that require less work to be put in prior to painting & gaming. Count me among those. I would actually pay more to return to a time when models had 2 or 3 parts - the model, the base, and maybe a shield. 

1a. Side note. I actually like all models in my regiments to be identical.

2. Plastic. Metal. Monopose. Multi-part. No matter what material or how many parts, a hangunner is still a hangunner. That's what I'm being sold - a model that serves a role on the table, in the game. It should cost me $X regardless.

Edited by Sleboda
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2 hours ago, michu said:

SC! sets are not limited releases. They are going to stay.

I am very sorry to tell you this is not the case in this instance this box will only be available for probably an hour max this weekend once the pre orders go live. This is not the same as a normal start collecting 

You will see come Saturday this will sell out very quickly and won't be restocked for a very long while. Ala archregent, archrevenanvt, ogre tyrant, skaven bomber, goblin squig rider etc.. 

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25 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Two other factors as well.

1. Some folks place extra value on models that require less work to be put in prior to painting & gaming. Count me among those. I would actually pay more to return to a time when models had 2 or 3 parts - the model, the base, and maybe a shield. 

1a. Side note. I actually like all models in my regiments to be identical.

2. Plastic. Metal. Monopose. Multi-part. No matter what material or how many parts, a hangunner is still a hangunner. That's what I'm being sold - a model that serves a role on the table, in the game. It should cost me $X regardless.

Each to their own but I'm the exact opposite. The hobby, building and high quality of the miniatures is far more important to me than the game. The miniatures need personality. 

If I just wanted identical game pieces on a board or tabletop then I'd just use cardboard tokens or something like boardgames do. 

Side note: I don't believe the game is anywhere near good enough to carry itself regardless of the quality of the miniatures. 

 

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