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9 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

They could just open a pre order window say of one weekend or even one day.

 

They technically have it when they do the made to order. It could be a similar situation. Problem is these boxes have surely a much smaller margin and is not in their interest produce too many.

But the idea to limit one for address mentioned above is interesting.

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Just note but whilst GW produces the plastic in their HQ their cardstock is pretty much all from China. So a pre-order would have to be around 2 months or more. The Inferno reprints are like that and leave something like 50 working days between you ordering and GW expecting to ship them. That's a long time to tie up a lot of money and orders for people and you can bet many would say "eh its not worth it I'll wait till retail". 

I have heard hints that GW might have looked at buying their own card printing machine at some stage; which would give them a lot more internal flexibility with releases if they could afford one and if it was economical to run. 

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29 minutes ago, Chikout said:

The reason gw produces limited releases of products is much simpler- they are terrified of over supplying a product.

Recent history is full of examples of companies making too many of a product that didn't sell and resulted in the bankruptcy of the company. Thq's udraw tablet is a good example. 

The story goes that Gorkamorka nearly killed gw. Gw took a big bet on it but it didn't sell. 

You don't even have to go that far back, you can look at how badly Dreadfleet flopped in 2011. Almost all of GW's business practices for non-core games (Underworlds, Warcry, Blackstone Fortress, etc) can be traced back to a desperate concern not to repeat that. Same applies for their army boxes.

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23 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

Why do people think Hysh and say Aelves? Possible but I don’t think Hysh is populated only by light Aelves and true enough there’s not many unsolved rumour engines but it could be something else and the reiteration of the word huge mixed with giant must have something to do with it. And Aelves are not notoriously giant...

Well it just speculation and guessing of what it could be. Also Giants of Hysh is a bit an out of this world concept so not many people would except such a thing to happen.  hints of anything coming from Hysh has always been heavily related to the Twins and Aelves, though there are stuff like Order of knights, the Cypher lords, and  Grots who worship the sun, so anything is possible.

 

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11 minutes ago, xking said:

Why did Dreadfleet  fail? I was not around.

A combination of a high price, models that could not be used in other games/systems at all (hence the emphasis on more recent boxed games having rules or being suitable for AoS/40k), and inflated stock buoyed up on the success of the new Space Hulk released the previous year. SH did sell out rapidly and Dreadfleet numbers unwisely took that into account. It didn't sell out and eventually all unsold copies in GW stores were recalled and its memory more or less buried. 

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20 minutes ago, xking said:

Why did Dreadfleet  fail? I was not around.

Dreadfleet was a one-time game box release by GW. They were upfront that there wouldn't be any expansions; any new fleets or new ships or any developing of the range. It was a one time all in one box game. They then produced way too much of it and it just didn't sell out like it should have. 

GW wanted a fast selling game, but because they were just throwing it out there without any further support many wargamer customers weren't interested. They didn't want 1 ship for their faction (if they were represented) and then nothing; they wanted Man O War - an actual wargame with their own factions fleet of ships. 

So it sold but nothing like the volume that GW were hoping for. This was also back in the days when GW wasn't doing any of their current advertising online nor building things up well. So they also likely made some mistakes there as well which stalled sales. 

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Maybe we could get a new Man O War/Dreadfleet game set in the Age of Sigmar with sky-ships and sea ships. That would be cool, and it would flesh  out the lore on navy and sky-fleets.

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I know that waiting a week for your preorder is preferable to waiting a couple of months, but since people wait for years for Kickstarter projects I can't see it being a deal breaker. The whole idea of something selling out in preorder is bizzare, the point of a preorder should be to estimate demand.

I also think they should limit sets tk one per person. That would cut out resellers, but also allow for more even distribution amongst legitimate customers. You often see posts from people who missed out interspersed with those from people who bought five copies of a limited set to start an army. 

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7 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

I know that waiting a week for your preorder is preferable to waiting a couple of months, but since people wait for years for Kickstarter projects I can't see it being a deal breaker. The whole idea of something selling out in preorder is bizzare, the point of a preorder should be to estimate demand.

I also think they should limit sets tk one per person. That would cut out resellers, but also allow for more even distribution amongst legitimate customers. You often see posts from people who missed out interspersed with those from people who bought five copies of a limited set to start an army. 

The Sisters box was 1 per person. 

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23 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

That's good to hear, even if it clearly hasn't worked as well as hoped!

That depends. From a business point of view, it might have.

Some may have suspected sets would not sell out if a one box per person wasn't implemented, and that bubble has popped.

This makes it more likely for GW to do it again.

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9 hours ago, Chikout said:

The story goes that Gorkamorka nearly killed gw. Gw took a big bet on it but it didn't sell. 

 

Why am I in doubt about that? It seems you extreamly overestimate production costs. GW hasn‘t been in any danger for 15 years? And they did better and better with hardly any setback after the old world exploded. (And they did worse before not due to overproduction while WHF existed but due to greedy and stupid pricing and release policies).

if they produce 10,000 copies of Gorkamorka for 140€ then their retailer price would be 70€ which means the actual production costs per unit would be around (Max) 30€ if they stick to the old rule of selling for 2.5x the production costs. Realistically the prod. Costs per unit would be somewhere around 15-20€.

selling half of it would therefor cover all their costs with ease. After that the revenue would explode. And that is not accounting for their online shop sales of which every sold box covers the prod. Costs of ~4.5 boxes.

Edited by JackStreicher

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8 hours ago, novakai said:

Well it just speculation and guessing of what it could be. Also Giants of Hysh is a bit an out of this world concept so not many people would except such a thing to happen.  hints of anything coming from Hysh has always been heavily related to the Twins and Aelves, though there are stuff like Order of knights, the Cypher lords, and  Grots who worship the sun, so anything is possible.

 

Yeah, not suggesting light giants but maybe some monster or giant construct in the realm of light. Aren’t the Sky Grots from Hysh for example?

A giant ship would fit the bill no?

Today they should announce the preorder of the battleforces right? Or I’m a week too early?

Edited by alghero81

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9 hours ago, alghero81 said:

They technically have it when they do the made to order. It could be a similar situation. Problem is these boxes have surely a much smaller margin and is not in their interest produce too many.

But the idea to limit one for address mentioned above is interesting.

They did this when end times came in fantasy.

each book was a maximum order quantity of one.

its all doable.  I wonder if this will have a counter effect (unlikely) and  put off potential sisters players from buying up the normal release models due to the fact they feel that not only have they missed out on the great bargain intro box but are now paying through the nose by comparison. Time will tell.

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34 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

They did this when end times came in fantasy.

each book was a maximum order quantity of one.

its all doable.  I wonder if this will have a counter effect (unlikely) and  put off potential sisters players from buying up the normal release models due to the fact they feel that not only have they missed out on the great bargain intro box but are now paying through the nose by comparison. Time will tell.

My AoS group is small, most players do 40k but now out of 6 players 3 are starting Ossiarch Bonereapers, fair enough we all got the starting box but we also paid hundreds more for the other bits. Not much significative but I think if you want something you are going for it deal or no deal... not all start collecting boxes are good value, this does not mean no one starts the armies without them or with poor start collecting...

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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

Why am I in doubt about that? It seems you extreamly overestimate production costs. GW hasn‘t been in any danger for 15 years? And they did better and better with hardly any setback after the old world exploded. (And they did worse before not due to overproduction while WHF existed but due to greedy and stupid pricing and release policies).

if they produce 10,000 copies of Gorkamorka for 140€ then their retailer price would be 70€ which means the actual production costs per unit would be around (Max) 30€ if they stick to the old rule of selling for 2.5x the production costs. Realistically the prod. Costs per unit would be somewhere around 15-20€.

selling half of it would therefor cover all their costs with ease. After that the revenue would explode. And that is not accounting for their online shop sales of which every sold box covers the prod. Costs of ~4.5 boxes.

The 50% number was just to give an easy mathematical example, which I said in my previous post.  I know production costs are much less than that, but when you have unsold goods you start to get inventory costs which build over time. The point stands that over production involves that financial risks that under production does not. 

The gorkamorka thing is a story that I've read on Dakka, warseer and Portent a number of times. It is possible it is not true. The only evidence I could find with a quick Google is that gw was not doing well at the end of the 90s.

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48 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

My AoS group is small, most players do 40k but now out of 6 players 3 are starting Ossiarch Bonereapers, fair enough we all got the starting box but we also paid hundreds more for the other bits. Not much significative but I think if you want something you are going for it deal or no deal... not all start collecting boxes are good value, this does not mean no one starts the armies without them or with poor start collecting...

indeed, but a box like that is a catalyst.  It's there to stoke enthusiasm and get you to buy into the faction, and if you've been given lots of sweets for free which seem value aside, very special, then you'll buy into whatever else is coming.

@Chikout there's a lot of tools available now which were'nt available then. You can register interest to gauge volume demands, and take pre-orders paid for like the made to order.

The injection mould tooling for those sprues works out at roughly 100k per sprue, but you're talking a volume of several hundred thousand units before the thing needs to be changed.  The cost relative to the material works out at about 50 pence per sprue.  You're looking at a cost of about three to five pounds for each of the average boxes at raw bill of material cost once overheads, costs and D&D time have beem taken into account.

The full hardback book printing and the dice and extras will enhance costs, but again, for a large box such as soul wars or the sisters box you're looking at ten to fifteen pounds max, twenty at an absolute push.  it's not unrealistic to look at this sort of product being at 500-1000% markup.  it's the nature of such production models and anyone that makes stuff in volume in plastic does the same thing.

In reality the question that was probably asked was "if we bring back sisters will it recoupe the cost of  around 1 million invest in the tooling (once the units have been established to call it a proper army.  So you'd be looking to recover that cost at 2.5 times over to make it viable.

 

But anyway... an army of really big giants :) - if they're bone grindergiant size that would be amazeballs.

And they must include a Johan ... we must be firm about the running away Johan.

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37 minutes ago, Chikout said:

The 50% number was just to give an easy mathematical example, which I said in my previous post.  I know production costs are much less than that, but when you have unsold goods you start to get inventory costs which build over time. The point stands that over production involves that financial risks that under production does not. 

The gorkamorka thing is a story that I've read on Dakka, warseer and Portent a number of times. It is possible it is not true. The only evidence I could find with a quick Google is that gw was not doing well at the end of the 90s.

I agree with you I just see it a bit differently since GW actually announced around the AoS 1.0 (could've been a bit earlier or later) that they'd go for limited boxes since those would be more lucrative (well they also spoke about how new armies could only be viable for a few years and then would be stopped alltogether since new armies sell better - which is not what you want to hear). 
They use "limited" products as any other company does: Dial up the price since the demand outweights the supply. It's a nice side-effect that there won't be any inventory costs but I am rather certain that that was not the reason why they switchted to it.

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4 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

And they must include a Johan ... we must be firm about the running away Johan.

I wanted to say "give him a break" but then... yeah, without Johann it doesn't count.

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Okay guys, Papa needs sugar! Do we have any Leaks for StD? Or can we at least make some? Is here noone related to a chief designer at GW? Or has accidentialy access to their site to make some potato pictures? Facility Manager? AAAARRGHGHH!!!! I want more input about them, and I want it noooooowww

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We already had our allocated Slaves to Darkness leak with the massive spreadsheet of releases. We know they are being pre-ordered on the 7th and released on the 14th. There's also Endless Spells confirmed by the overseas shipping company website, though they appear to be coming next year (if I recall right but I could be wrong on that date).

 

We know there's the new getting started set with new warriors and knights and leader on a massive monster mount and that they are all push-fit models (with a likely release of multi-part warriors/knights possibly coming out next year). 

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13 minutes ago, Overread said:

We already had our allocated Slaves to Darkness leak with the massive spreadsheet of releases. We know they are being pre-ordered on the 7th and released on the 14th. There's also Endless Spells confirmed by the overseas shipping company website, though they appear to be coming next year (if I recall right but I could be wrong on that date).

The endless spells were on the spreadsheet as well, so they are coming on the 14th along with the Battletome and the Start Collecting box.

 

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47 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Okay guys, Papa needs sugar! Do we have any Leaks for StD? Or can we at least make some? Is here noone related to a chief designer at GW? Or has accidentialy access to their site to make some potato pictures? Facility Manager? AAAARRGHGHH!!!! I want more input about them, and I want it noooooowww

We can expect official rules previews from the 2nd of December which is just over two weeks away. 

Regarding the giants, I hope they’re not too big. If they are going to do imperial knights in AOS they should copy the scale variety that range has now. Battleline, elite and hero giants in three distinct sizes would be cool. 

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4 hours ago, Chikout said:

We can expect official rules previews from the 2nd of December which is just over two weeks away. 

Regarding the giants, I hope they’re not too big. If they are going to do imperial knights in AOS they should copy the scale variety that range has now. Battleline, elite and hero giants in three distinct sizes would be cool. 

You talk about "the Giants" like they were happening - are you basing that on something else than @Kaleb Daark cryptic messages ?! ;) 

I still think they would have said "gargantuan" instead of "giant news" if they were talking about a new races / kit, instead of some HUGE news in the form of a whole new race, with new gods Tyrion & Teclis, and a new Realm (Hysh) for the first time truly explored... (But ofc I would love to be wrong here !)

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