Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I'm really curious about the use of mercenaries actually. GW has been rigorously obliterating any desire to take allies for quite some time now, and I rarely if ever see them in the 15-20 people in my play group. Moving the best rules into the allegiance abilities just means it's pointless to bother. I wonder why they went through the trouble of making a mercenary system if they were just going to toss even more restrictions on them. 

Edited by Grimrock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I'm really curious about the use of mercenaries actually. GW has been rigorously obliterating any desire to take allies for quite some time now, and I rarely if ever see them in the 15-20 people in my play group. Moving the best rules into the allegiance abilities just means it's pointless to bother. I wonder why they went through the trouble of making a mercenary system if they were just going to toss even more restrictions on them. 

Well, for those who like to create a thematic army or prefer a narrative element to their games, the idea of mercenaries can be quite appealing.  I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what GW have done in this latest iteration of mercenaries.  If any fit with one of my armies, then that gives me yet another way to play and add even more enjoyment to my hobbying.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Grimrock said:

I'm really curious about the use of mercenaries actually. GW has been rigorously obliterating any desire to take allies for quite some time now, and I rarely if ever see them in the 15-20 people in my play group. Moving the best rules into the allegiance abilities just means it's pointless to bother. I wonder why they went through the trouble of making a mercenary system if they were just going to toss even more restrictions on them. 

They have also been broadening the groups within those allegiances, to be fair. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Riavan said:

Guys. Why is nobody speaking about the extreme injustice of the birddog statues only being in the most expensive terrain kit!!!??!??????!!?!????!!!!

Guys, you have to know something also: most of  "modular" terrains kits that come into several boxes have ONE best price/quantity ratio. It is ALWAYS the biggest box. By a fair margin I must say. My main advice for those who are interested by this new terrain set: save a bit more money and go for the biggest box. You won't regret it.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Guys, you have to know something also: most of  "modular" terrains kits that come into several boxes have ONE best price/quantity ratio. It is ALWAYS the biggest box. By a fair margin I must say. My main advice for those who are interested by this new terrain set: save a bit more money and go for the biggest box. You won't regret it.

Thing is I feel it's kind of expensive even for gw terrain.

Kill team base set came with more than this and was cheaper.

Also have zero interest in buying a smaller box of endless spells for a similar price as the last one? What's with that.

Edited by Riavan
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is Kill-team was a total loss-leader product line with many of its boxed sets. It's purely aimed at shattering the "its expensive to get started" viewpoint and get new people into the game with a smaller format game with ultra cheap components. GW knows most who get hooked will join into the rest of the hobby in time - building up to whole armies. 

 

AoS isn't quite there yet in terms of that type of productline; though Warcry "could" bit it (its a bit too chaos focused in the marketing though in my view so I figure it might sort of do it and sort of not do it). Otherwise I'd expect a proper boxed Skirmish release say around Christmas or a bit after - when AoS has most arimes with battletomes and it makes sense to push forward a loss-leader type skirmish product to generate huge buzz and interest in new gamers. Right now if GW did that there would be a high risk that many would start "dead" armies with no battletome and no clear expansion pathway into the main game; or they'd start armies GW is going to significantly change or even retire. Ergo its just not the right time. 

  • Like 4
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Well, for those who like to create a thematic army or prefer a narrative element to their games, the idea of mercenaries can be quite appealing.  I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what GW have done in this latest iteration of mercenaries.  If any fit with one of my armies, then that gives me yet another way to play and add even more enjoyment to my hobbying.

For sure, it makes perfect sense for narrative and it'll add some great fun, but for matched play it just seems to add needless complication. They seem to be in this weird state of trying to keep allies a part of the game but continually eliminating anything that would make allies appealing for matched play. Why not keep mercenaries as Narrative only? There are 3 ways to play, it's not a sin to make rules specifically for one of those ways. 

10 hours ago, The World Tree said:

They have also been broadening the groups within those allegiances, to be fair. 

Yup, and I think it's awesome. Books like gloomspite that include a variety of different units and make all of them viable are fantastic. By far my favourite part of their rules work recently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Overread said:

Thing is Kill-team was a total loss-leader product line with many of its boxed sets. It's purely aimed at shattering the "its expensive to get started" viewpoint and get new people into the game with a smaller format game with ultra cheap components. GW knows most who get hooked will join into the rest of the hobby in time - building up to whole armies. 

 

AoS isn't quite there yet in terms of that type of productline; though Warcry "could" bit it (its a bit too chaos focused in the marketing though in my view so I figure it might sort of do it and sort of not do it). Otherwise I'd expect a proper boxed Skirmish release say around Christmas or a bit after - when AoS has most arimes with battletomes and it makes sense to push forward a loss-leader type skirmish product to generate huge buzz and interest in new gamers. Right now if GW did that there would be a high risk that many would start "dead" armies with no battletome and no clear expansion pathway into the main game; or they'd start armies GW is going to significantly change or even retire. Ergo its just not the right time. 

Um..  "loss leader" implies a loss. You are suggesting that the box of plastic sprues and paper that was the kill team starter costs more to produce than the GW wholesale price? Sorry, no.  Lower margins for sure, but not a loss.

Beyond that, most of the kill team branded products were small unit kits bundled with a little terrain at a pretty high price.  Not "Mangler Squig" margins (1 sprue for 80 usd...) But still pretty good. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

Um..  "loss leader" implies a loss. You are suggesting that the box of plastic sprues and paper that was the kill team starter costs more to produce than the GW wholesale price? Sorry, no.  Lower margins for sure, but not a loss.

Beyond that, most of the kill team branded products were small unit kits bundled with a little terrain at a pretty high price.  Not "Mangler Squig" margins (1 sprue for 80 usd...) But still pretty good. 

I think you're taking loss-leader too literally when the general idea is the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

For sure, it makes perfect sense for narrative and it'll add some great fun, but for matched play it just seems to add needless complication. They seem to be in this weird state of trying to keep allies a part of the game but continually eliminating anything that would make allies appealing for matched play. Why not keep mercenaries as Narrative only? There are 3 ways to play, it's not a sin to make rules specifically for one of those ways. 

Narrative and matched play are not so easily separated from each other - it's more of a sliding scale.  In many instances narrative gaming uses the points system as a way of creating roughly equal sides, then layering the narrative aspects on top.  It is easier and more helpful to give Mercenaries, and allies, a space within the matched play points system as this will lend legitimacy to, and encourage, their use within narrative gaming.  At the same time, they have to ensure that allies, and now mercenaries, do not unbalance the purely matched, tournament-style, play end of the scale.  The end result effectively is that allies, and mercenaries hopefully, are generally optional but not game-breaking, though  some older armies that lack particular types of unit may benefit more (which is fair enough).  I think, on the whole, that GW has kept the balance pretty well in this instance.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree that GW went out of hand on pricing yet again.  Add up the price in your region for the 4 new endless spells plus the enduring stormvault alone.  The enduring stormvault may be “big” but the design is extremely simple and repetitive for the cost. (Using the exact same statue as in the other terrain boxes then charging a premium, seriously GW?)  GW is outsourcing these things to be cheaply made from China with repetitive designs, yet charging that much? Very sorry to say, but if I ever try to obtain these I will “outsource” as well and get it somewhere else, if you know what I mean.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps pure loss leader isn't quite the correct term, but certainly they gave huge discounts on the killteam sets. 

 

Also interesting to note that it seems next week will be a slow release week. So far the only preview is a few models from Forgeworld and nothing form GW central - so it seems Bloodbowl is ruling the roost next week! Which is no bad thing at all; esp since Forbidden powers looks like its going to get a solid month of updated release ideas and themes through the community web pages. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is just me or is Teclis geting a lot of attention? It seems that is one of the leaderships for forbidden power lore, so as that down the lake... 

 I like a lot the narrative thing and the fiction but I need to know who is that misterious ancient evil, so as if Teclis is going to come with his aelves to fight. Please gw pm me and tell me everything I wont say a word

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm preordering the $40 time worn ruins set. I think it looks really cool. No interest in the large pieces though. I'd rather go for Azyrite or the new Warcry terrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Overread said:

Perhaps pure loss leader isn't quite the correct term, but certainly they gave huge discounts on the killteam sets. 

It's the correct term.  The other gentleman was being a bit too pedantic in his definition.

A loss leader frequently doesn't mean a literal loss of money.  Many times it simply means a loss of profits - meaning that a company deliberately undercharges something, making less money on one thing, so that they will make more money on supplementary things.  So even though money is being made on the original product, it's still considered a loss leader.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

That Shattered Dominion pre-order is a joke right? If you buy the kits seperately it amounts to $350. You're telling me 6 flat tiles are worth almost $300?

Edited by SleeperAgent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

That Shattered Dominion pre-order is a joke right? If you buy the kits seperately it amounts to $350. You're telling me 6 flat tiles are worth almost $300?

Yes actually.  Those board tiles are expensive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hoseman said:

Is just me or is Teclis geting a lot of attention? It seems that is one of the leaderships for forbidden power lore, so as that down the lake... 

 I like a lot the narrative thing and the fiction but I need to know who is that misterious ancient evil, so as if Teclis is going to come with his aelves to fight. Please gw pm me and tell me everything I wont say a word

I suspect Teclis is gona bring togheter the current high elf army (maybe a coupole new kits) and Tyrion is gona get a brand new one.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

I suspect Teclis is gona bring togheter the current high elf army (maybe a coupole new kits) and Tyrion is gona get a brand new one.

I agree with you, except that I can't see Teclis and Tyrion being different armies with the current fluff.

I think it'll be more like a two stage release, first Teclis will unite the High Elves and take action, and then Tyrion joining the fray with more new models will be basically the second wave release for Hysh Aelves.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

I suspect Teclis is gona bring togheter the current high elf army (maybe a coupole new kits) and Tyrion is gona get a brand new one.

 

I thought that Tyrion and Teclis are working together and would fight under the one united front army since they often do in the lore.  Would it be weird to have two seperate light elf armies ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, madmac said:

I agree with you, except that I can't see Teclis and Tyrion being different armies with the current fluff.

I think it'll be more like a two stage release, first Teclis will unite the High Elves and take action, and then Tyrion joining the fray with more new models will be basically the second wave release for Hysh Aelves.

Separating them like that seems unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I cant see Teclis and Tyrion on different army's too but I don't see how old high Aelfs could join a new Celestial army.

Maybe Phoenix could fit... I don't know. I thought all the old elves would have a battletome like BoC did were u can use them and change battalions into wanderers (wood elves), high and dark.

With this idea Malerion could bring his army too using order serpentis, shadowblades and the other stuff.. and then where all this leaves wanderers? The only elf  faction with no dragons... meh

Edited by Hoseman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Separating them like that seems unlikely.

I think he meant to say a second wave of models or something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Thiagoma said:

I think he meant to say a second wave of models or something like that.

Right, no I absolutely got that.  My reply was with that interpretation in mind.

I don't see GW making an army that is so huge, it requires multiple waves to get all the models out.  For AoS, they seem to prefer one huge release, with additional rando models following in later months.

The only exception to this would be Stormcast, of course.  But I think it's wishfull thinking to assume that any new Aelves will follow a Stormcast release schedule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...