The Rumour Thread

[Nos]

No strong feelings on it but I wonder if some of the more recent potential AOS rumour engines relate to a new Warhammer quest

[Zeblasky]

12 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

What about an army of Giant Crows?

I've read this as "Giant Cows" and was on my way to say "But we already have those".

And now I'm stuck thinking that AoS has gone so deep in fantasy that an army of Giant Crows would still not feel out of place in the setting.

 

[LuminethMage]

2 hours ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

What if Malerion did exist but Morathi has since disposed of him in order to assume control of Ulgu?

As someone else mentioned in the thread, shadow daemons were first referenced as being discovered ‘in the company’ of Morathi.

Some time between the Age of Myth / whenever we last know of Malerion’s actions in the timeline and now, she could have replaced him without anyone else knowing, using his influence and status to further her own goals and ambitions (in exactly the same way that she is already using Khaine — she has form!).

His employ of the same shadow daemons we knew Morathi associated herself with and the article about there being no Malerion could be pieces of the puzzle... 

 ... It’s not like she hasn’t tried to challenge him before! 

This really seems rather unlikely. Malerion is mentioned as the shadowy puppet master behind the scenes in the Soulbound RPG (which is developed together with GW to make it "lore conform"), and in the Lumineth BT, the newest BT we have, it straight out says that the Shadow Demons are his, and the Lumineth ambassador is sent to him, not to Morathi. Morathi, Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion also still seem to meet and discuss matters - I think someone would have noticed if Malerion is disposed or something like that. The other gods managed to see her real form through her illusions, so it's not like she has the power to easily deceive them with her magic. It's also not like the two Ms are in full control of Ulgu or even close to that. 

GW just doesn't have an army for Malerion yet, so we do not get a lot of information on him. Same is true for Tyrion. The blurb about Tyrion in the community article was also more of a joke. We know where he is - in Hysh defending the Lumineth nations from Chaos. That, or what GW wrote in the Lumineth BT and several previous products is wrong.

Of course it's always kind of pointless to discuss these things because in the end, GW can do what they want, without having to adhere to any kind of logic, inner coherency or what ever. If they can't come up with a good model, and think there are enough aelf factions around, they could do something like that, and basically show a finger to all the people who waited for Malerion for 7+ years. 

 

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

3 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

This really seems rather unlikely. Malerion is mentioned as the shadowy puppet master behind the scenes in the Soulbound RPG (which is developed together with GW to make it "lore conform"), and in the Lumineth BT, the newest BT we have, it straight out says that the Shadow Demons are his, and the Lumineth ambassador is sent to him, not to Morathi. Morathi, Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion also still seem to meet and discuss matters - I think someone would have noticed if Malerion is disposed or something like that. The other gods managed to see her real form through her illusions, so it's not like she has the power to easily deceive them with her magic. It's also not like the two Ms are in full control of Ulgu or even close to that. 

GW just doesn't have an army for Malerion yet, so we do not get a lot of information on him. Same is true for Tyrion. The blurb about Tyrion in the community article was also more of a joke. We know where he is - in Hysh defending the Lumineth nations from Chaos. That, or what GW wrote in the Lumineth BT and several previous products is wrong.

Of course it's always kind of pointless to discuss these things because in the end, GW can do what they want, without having to adhere to any kind of logic, inner coherency or what ever. If they can't come up with a good model, and think there are enough aelf factions around, they could do something like that, and basically show a finger to all the people who waited for Malerion for 7+ years. 

 

This all makes much more sense, you’re right. I haven’t got around to reading Soulbound yet and didn’t know Malerion featured so prominently, so that’s my bad. I also should have said ‘more’ control over Ulgu. I just got excited for a moment wondering at it all but you’re right, it’s rather pointless chatting about these things until we hear from GW itself. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by The Brotherhood of Necros

[Lord of the Isle]

Their control over Ulgu seems fairly decent given that Malerion kept his forces back defensively and defeated Archaon? Lots of Slaanesh Hedonites and daemons raiding drawn to daddy tho of course

[LuminethMage]

55 minutes ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said:

This all makes much more sense, you’re right. I haven’t got around to reading Soulbound yet and didn’t know Malerion featured so prominently, so that’s my bad. I also should have said ‘more’ control over Ulgu. I just got excited for a moment wondering at it all but you’re right, it’s rather pointless chatting about these things until we hear from GW itself. 

Nothing to say sorry! And speculation is  what this forum is for : )

Re-reading my post it sounds harsher than I intended (probably subconsciously still pissed about Endtimes lol). I just think it would disappoint many people  if GW would just make Malerion irrelevant after teasing him in several of their publications. It's not impossible, but I hope they are not going to do that. 

Malerion doesn't really appear prominently in Soulbound. He has the same treatment as most the other gods (a two page entry. Tyrion and Kurnoth just have smaller entries along Teclis and Alarielle). But it's made clear that he is still the overall boss in Ulgu (if there is something like that at all in Ulgu). Morathi is described as a "growing nuisance" to him. If you find the time, read through the various Realm and god entries there, it's really good for a look into what's up with everything right now. 

Ulgu seems super interesting, I hope we get more information on it, either in a new DoK BT or Malerion related. 

[Lord of the Isle]

Yeah SB makes Malerion seem at least more active / known about / powerful than Tyrion!

[silverstu]

3 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

. Tyrion and Kurnoth just have smaller entries along Teclis and Alarielle)

There is mentions of Kurnoth? I was kind of hoping he would get a mention in that Aelven Patheon article, even just the he is only mostly dead .. his forces are the only Aelf-type faction I'm holding out for. 

On the dwarf side of things I'd hope they would have Grungni out on his own- he seems to have been working under Sigmar too much for my liking. I'd love some hints on the return of Valaya and maybe the lesser dwarf pantheon - Grombindal and Bugman..

In terms of releases Warcry really only holds any hope of something new to catch my eye - really interested to see how they expand the war bands available. I'd love to see Kurnothi but a dwarf one could be interesting - something like a dwarf ranger war band would fit or a Kharadron exploration/scouting force. The kits are a nice size so buying just for a single box without fully adopting the faction looks tempting. 

[Beliman]

15 minutes ago, silverstu said:

There is mentions of Kurnoth? I was kind of hoping he would get a mention in that Aelven Patheon article, even just the he is only mostly dead .. his forces are the only Aelf-type faction I'm holding out for. 

On the dwarf side of things I'd hope they would have Grungni out on his own- he seems to have been working under Sigmar too much for my liking. I'd love some hints on the return of Valaya and maybe the lesser dwarf pantheon - Grombindal and Bugman..

In terms of releases Warcry really only holds any hope of something new to catch my eye - really interested to see how they expand the war bands available. I'd love to see Kurnothi but a dwarf one could be interesting - something like a dwarf ranger war band would fit or a Kharadron exploration/scouting force. The kits are a nice size so buying just for a single box without fully adopting the faction looks tempting. 

I like that post!!

Is there any hint for wave 2 kits for AoS armies?

I mean, if your army can take any Fantasy models (or SCE), then your army probably has a lot of unique and diferent units to play with.

But if your army was 100% created in AoS, it probably has an small roster. And the only thing that I saw in the lasts years are the called  "soap battletomes" to create new "Big Armies" but this can only work in some armies like Orruks Warclans or even Malerion and Morathi Aelfs, but not sure if it will work for Fyrelsayers and KOs.

[PJetski]

On 7/28/2020 at 8:05 AM, JPjr said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/28/the-rumour-engine-july-28th-2020/

GOTHIC SOULBLIGHT VIBES

Is that a raven or a crow?

I wonder if this has anything to do with Lethis? They are also called the Raven City and Forbidden Power goes into some detail about how they worship a death god that uses raven symbolism.

[EccentricCircle]

13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Is that a raven or a crow?

I wonder if this has anything to do with Lethis? They are also called the Raven City and Forbidden Power goes into some detail about how they worship a death god that uses raven symbolism.

Probably a crow, although the distinction is not nearly as clear cut as most assume. Crows are any birds of the Corvus genus, which includes various species called "crow x" or "raven y" among others. So all ravens are crows, but not all crows are ravens. Ravens are typically the larger species. Being a photograph of a little plastic model, I don't think a precise taxonomic classification is possible form the available evidence.

[MaatithoftheBrand]

15 hours ago, Kramer said:

can I just say for an alternative option. All males in DoK society are killed, enslaved or become weird sightless and mounted wizards. But the fluff for the executioners says they might worship Khaine. 
‘Skull- masked warriors wielding two- handed blades known as draichs, these aelves have devoted themselves entirely to the art of slaughter. Some say that they worship the aelf god Khaine, Lord of Murder, but the Executioners do not speak of their faith – indeed, they seldom speak
at all – to those outside their order.’

so that would mean they would worship Morathi. So these might be from that or a similar order from the free cities that worship Khaine/Morathi. 

I would guess that Morathi's spies and assassins, and indeed the Executioner regiments, can include male aelves in the same way in the medieval Church women could be Christians - the Temples and the Daughters of Khaine represent the "clergy" and the religious communes and communities built around Morathi and her supporters - here the males "born of the Cauldron" are remade into the wretched labour classes, some of which then "rise" to become Doomfire Warlocks. However, presumably there are - both in the Free Cities and in the Temple-Cities of the Daughters themselves - "lay" communities that work in more skilled civilian positions supporting the wretched male aelves and making sure that the Daughters can devote themselves to improving their devoted acts of slaughter without needing to become architects or bakers or trade pioneers. Most of these populations are probably either devoted Khainites or unfocused, venerating Khaine or the wider pantheon of Order passively. The males here are not under Morathi's /direct/ control, but also cannot rise to become a threat to her, and so probably aren't bound by the same rules or treated with the same hostility, and indeed many could swear oaths of silence and become Executioners dedicated to their sorceress, or else be recruited by Morathi and her inner circle to serve as shades/assassins/spies/all the other old World-that-Was Khainite roles that males could perform - the criteria is almost certainly utter devotion to the High Oracle above all others, and much like the Bloodwrack Medusae represent Queens who rose too high and threatened Morathi, I have no doubt that there are some cruel "honours" for a male assassin who Morathi decides might be a threat.

[Kramer]

25 minutes ago, MaatithoftheBrand said:

I would guess that Morathi's spies and assassins, and indeed the Executioner regiments, can include male aelves in the same way in the medieval Church women could be Christians - the Temples and the Daughters of Khaine represent the "clergy" and the religious communes and communities built around Morathi and her supporters - here the males "born of the Cauldron" are remade into the wretched labour classes, some of which then "rise" to become Doomfire Warlocks. However, presumably there are - both in the Free Cities and in the Temple-Cities of the Daughters themselves - "lay" communities that work in more skilled civilian positions supporting the wretched male aelves and making sure that the Daughters can devote themselves to improving their devoted acts of slaughter without needing to become architects or bakers or trade pioneers. Most of these populations are probably either devoted Khainites or unfocused, venerating Khaine or the wider pantheon of Order passively. The males here are not under Morathi's /direct/ control, but also cannot rise to become a threat to her, and so probably aren't bound by the same rules or treated with the same hostility, and indeed many could swear oaths of silence and become Executioners dedicated to their sorceress, or else be recruited by Morathi and her inner circle to serve as shades/assassins/spies/all the other old World-that-Was Khainite roles that males could perform - the criteria is almost certainly utter devotion to the High Oracle above all others, and much like the Bloodwrack Medusae represent Queens who rose too high and threatened Morathi, I have no doubt that there are some cruel "honours" for a male assassin who Morathi decides might be a threat.

Sounds logical, the only 'trouble' with GW is that they leave little hooks like this all over the place that they never built from. But that's such a good problem to have imo  

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, silverstu said:

There is mentions of Kurnoth? I was kind of hoping he would get a mention in that Aelven Patheon article, even just the he is only mostly dead .. his forces are the only Aelf-type faction I'm holding out for. 

On the dwarf side of things I'd hope they would have Grungni out on his own- he seems to have been working under Sigmar too much for my liking. I'd love some hints on the return of Valaya and maybe the lesser dwarf pantheon - Grombindal and Bugman..

In terms of releases Warcry really only holds any hope of something new to catch my eye - really interested to see how they expand the war bands available. I'd love to see Kurnothi but a dwarf one could be interesting - something like a dwarf ranger war band would fit or a Kharadron exploration/scouting force. The kits are a nice size so buying just for a single box without fully adopting the faction looks tempting. 

Yes there is. He is revered to as one of the lesser gods that the Sylvaneth worship. And also some others like humans and aelves when they go on hunts. His worship is confined mostly to Ghyran. The rest of the information is almost all about the Kurnothi Hunters and the Wild Hunt. 

That’s one of the good “problems” of AoS, there are so many interesting directions they can go, extend and update existing armies, Kurnothi, Malerion’s forces, Tyrion’s Lumineth, Grungni duradin, all kinds of vampires, stuff no one has on their minds like the insect faction we might see in Underworlds and whatnot.

I’m just happy that finally after 5 years I got “my” army, and no pretty much can relax and see what comes next. 

[Lucentia]

As someone with 4k points of DoK I'd obviously be pretty into Morathi being/becoming the main deific figure in Ulgu, I could see a scenario where Malerion is out of the picture (maybe dead, more likely become something more shadow than elf, surpassed care for mortal concerns etc etc) and she is pulling a similar con with Malerion's followers as she does already with the Khainites.  But I do not think that is very likely and, indeed, would be kinda rude to Malerion fans.

I only bring it up because looking at the aelf books right now there's a bit if a (coincidental) pattern.  Most obviously the Lumineth tome is almost half a book, with scope to expand the range with a Tyrion themed release down the line, similarly a Malerion faction could be slotted alongside DoK, and a Kurnothi release rolled in with Sylvaneth, potentially a format similar to the space marine supplements seen in 40k?  Not really a rumour, granted, just idle speculation.

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Yes there is. He is revered to as one of the lesser gods that the Sylvaneth worship. And also some others like humans and aelves when they go on hunts. His worship is confined mostly to Ghyran. The rest of the information is almost all about the Kurnothi Hunters and the Wild Hunt. 

That’s one of the good “problems” of AoS, there are so many interesting directions they can go, extend and update existing armies, Kurnothi, Malerion’s forces, Tyrion’s Lumineth, Grungni duradin, all kinds of vampires, stuff no one has on their minds like the insect faction we might see in Underworlds and whatnot.

I’m just happy that finally after 5 years I got “my” army, and no pretty much can relax and see what comes next. 

I completely agree mate. The direction they can take AOS is phenomenal with the amount of foundations they have laid. 

Also having my army finally coming out after all this time is such a momentous moment and leaves me more than satisfied just watching the Mortal Realms expand into ever greatness.

[Raviv]

Maybe Malerion's army will be composed of a few giant deamonic aelf models. Something like SoB. A small army with models that can be allied into other aelf armies.

[Popisdead]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:47 PM, Quasistellar said:

My issue with meeting engagements is that it creates extra steps and complications, when generally in a smaller match I’m looking for less complexity. 
 

I am hoping the small 40k missions are actually good and that can maybe be a template for small format AoS missions in the future.

I see the way 40k going is creating more extra steps and complications.  I'm not sure how that is a better template for AoS missions which seemed more straightforward.  I haven't seen any small missions but these quickly lead to BRB missions pretty fast.  AoS had the original simple starter missions.  They weren't great but they got people started.  

There are loads of missions in Skirmish, PtG, campaign books, Battletomes, supplemental support such as WD and in general I've always found them pretty simple and clear for playing.  

On 7/23/2020 at 5:34 PM, Infernalslayer said:

I think the problem with most monsters, like a Ghorgon, is not that they can't hold an objective, but that they can't clear horde units (or chaff) either to make way for your troops to go for the objective.

So most (non-hero) monsters are not good for either role other than be cool looking pieces on the table.

They aren't suppose to hold an objective.  Ghorgons are swingy but they do more than be cool looking pieces on the table.  Perhaps the issue isn't troops vs Monsters here.   Generally breakthrough isn't take and hold purposes.   

[Sleboda]

20 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

They aren't suppose to hold an objective.  

I think that's a good point.

Some folks want monsters and heroes to hold objectives and troops to kill stuff. In essence, (not to ascribe views to those who may not hold them) they want all units in the game to do all things. This would allow for some very unbalanced "non-army" armies.

 

I like having different types of units doing different things well. It promotes taking balanced armies instead of 10 Bloodthirster "armies."

Edited July 29, 2020 by Sleboda
Typo

[Popisdead]

1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

I think that's a good point.

Some folks want monsters and heroes to hold objectives and troops to kill stuff. In essence, (not to ascribe views to those who may not hold them) they want all units in the game to do all things. The would allow for some very unbalanced "non-army" armies.

 

I like having different types of units doing different things well. It promotes taking balanced armies instead of 10 Bloodthirster "armies."

This man,.. speaks the truth.

There is a big argument in the Sylvaneth thread about the book being bad vs the player base not knowing how to use it.  Granted,.. both are right but the rules of the game supersede an OP unit.  Know what you are trying to accomplish.  The playerbase who is generally tactically better at the game (not me any more, kids ruined my brain) can make an army work.  The playerbase who fleets from OP new alpha strike then leaves the army when they're OP trick is FAQed will call an army garbage.  

I've had a Ghorgon kill 20 KO troopers (no clue what they were called).  Does that mean the Ghorgon should hold that objective?  no, he should go off and eat more dwarfs.  

I wonder if 9th ed 40k is going to make this more prevalent in our zeitgeist.  That game really changed from 8th to 9th and how to deal with objectives, scoring and  taking them back will happen.  Can you melee off a unit from an objective or shoot it off?  If you do either will you score that objective when you need to?

[Thiagoma]

42 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I think that's a good point.

Some folks want monsters and heroes to hold objectives and troops to kill stuff. In essence, (not to ascribe views to those who may not hold them) they want all units in the game to do all things. This would allow for some very unbalanced "non-army" armies.

 

I like having different types of units doing different things well. It promotes taking balanced armies instead of 10 Bloodthirster "armies."

The problema for the most part is that it makes taking behemoths more of a liability.  Most of the times you are better off taking another battleline/unit, there is no real incentive to take a monster over a block of 20 guys (of course there are exceptions).

[Baron Klatz]

 

3 hours ago, Lucentia said:

I only bring it up because looking at the aelf books right now there's a bit if a (coincidental) pattern.  Most obviously the Lumineth tome is almost half a book, with scope to expand the range with a Tyrion themed release down the line, similarly a Malerion faction could be slotted alongside DoK, and a Kurnothi release rolled in with Sylvaneth, potentially a format similar to the space marine supplements seen in 40k?  Not really a rumour, granted, just idle speculation.

That's how I see it happening.

They'll probably release the factions as stand-alone tomes with ally options so they can delve (and hype) further into the new armies that a few years down the line they'll combine those certain factions into one tome to either play together, play separately or interesting mix-and-match themes for their empires or forces in other realms.

Similar to the Orruk Warclans or Mawtribes. Fun too to see how the tome combining also builds on the advancing storyline like how Beastclaws couldn't be with their footslogger brethren in the past because of the Everwinter but now after centuries it's shown how the Beastclaws have mastered using the curse with some control over it which justifies the armies being able to work together.

Seeing stuff like that for why Shadowkin would suddenly work with Melusai because of Morathi's Varanspire intel or why tribes of Kurnothi are closing ranks with the Sylvaneth groves as Alarielle is spreading her power in the realms would make great twists to the ongoing narrative.

[Lord of the Isle]

Surely daelve

[Chumphammer]

We also technically have a complete DOK temple untouched from the book, Khelt Nar

"Khelt Nar has become the fastest growing of the sects established by Morathi. It began as Ironshard, a single Khainite shrine founded by the High Oracle atop a flat-topped mountain of iron known as the Rothtor. Seeing the potential in that bounteous natural resource, Morathi used powerful sorcery to mould an imposing stronghold from the enormous ferrous precipice, as well as the lands surrounding it.

Despite the layers of shadow magic that obscure the temple-fortress of Khelt Nar, the forces of the Ruinous Powers have located and invaded it  no fewer than six times. Each attack has thus far been thwarted but it  has meant that the war covens of Khelt Nar have developed a hatred of Chaos that far transcends even that of their rival sects. The Khelt Nar have established over two dozen lesser temples all across Ulgu."

[Ganigumo]

35 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

The problema for the most part is that it makes taking behemoths more of a liability.  Most of the times you are better off taking another battleline/unit, there is no real incentive to take a monster over a block of 20 guys (of course there are exceptions).

The solution is to have the monster be able to threaten those 20 dudes to the point where they need to avoid combat with it. if your monster is going to kill 10-15 models, and the 20 dudes are only going to put a handful of wounds into the monster, there becomes an incentive to take the monster.

Just imagine what the aleguzzler would look like if his club was 2 damage, his headbutt 6, and his kick 3, it would raise his average damage to ~9 against a 4+ save from ~4 damage, plus he has the grab attack. sure he's not going to be holding points, but blobs of infantry will get smashed by it, and even bravery 10 stuff would need inspiring presence to stick together.