The Rumour Thread

[zilberfrid]

7 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

Which is another completely bizarre decision. Why on earth would you allow a big game studio to make Warhammer Total War at the same time as you decided to kill the Old World. And then followed it up with Warhammer Total War 2. 
Why on earth would you not push the new Mortal Realms setting for these games?  

In reality, the games would be nearly identical, but with different maps, unit/character names etc.... functionally they'd play the same way. 

Obviously now in hindsight it's clear GW simply didn't have enough (or any) lore, maps, locations etc... created for AOS 1.0. At least not enough to make a TW game out of. But these days we have maps of the various realms, you could theme campaigns in each realm, theme and skin armies depending on location etc.... 
There could be cool fights in and around realmgates.   

Back then I assume they were doing it as a "well, we're getting rid of it, maybe we can at least still make some money out of a dying brand" 
It seems like that would be a big risk for the game studio too. I'd be pretty annoyed if I found out the setting/lore that I'm using for a new game is about to be discontinued by the owner/creator.  
That's almost like making a Han Solo game and during development finding out Disney has decided to retcon all of Han Solo out of existing and future Star Wars products. 

I'm happy there was enough interest to make it into the great game it is now, and to justify an even better sequel. But I also think Warhammer Total War 3 should be set in the mortal realms. 

The launch of AoS was haphazard. Isn't there a case to be made that licensing for WH:TW was already done by the time that department knew about AoS?

Not to mention building the game...

EDIT: Wikipedia states that in 2012 the announcement was made, probably after licencing was done (so that draft could be 2010). I suspect SEGA and maybe not even GW knew anything about AoS.

More edits:

Turin is starting AoS, and when listening to him casting I think he is quite respectful of other people. There are problems on ladder, but people spamming op single entities isn't worse than people spamming Keepers.

While I warm up to AoS, it's too weird of a setting for WH:TW. There is no empire building, resource management, and travel through realmgates (or space, or gnawholes) doesn't translate well to a TW style game.

A Warcraft style game would be much more fitting, or even something like Planescape: Torment.

Edited February 7, 2020 by zilberfrid

[Beastmaster]

Oh, and while we’re talking of beginner-friendly: I recently played their first round of Wfrp with my stepchildren. Explaining the Old World to them was done in 5 minutes, since so much is comparable to the real world (this is like Russia, here we have France with elves etc). I didn’t manage to understand how the Realms work even on the most basic level in 3 years now. And counting. 😬

[Aeryenn]

7 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

Which is another completely bizarre decision. Why on earth would you allow a big game studio to make Warhammer Total War at the same time as you decided to kill the Old World. And then followed it up with Warhammer Total War 2. 
Why on earth would you not push the new Mortal Realms setting for these games?  

In reality, the games would be nearly identical, but with different maps, unit/character names etc.... functionally they'd play the same way.

Well, I was greatly interested in Total War: Warhammer back then and can tell you this: it was "AoS hate era". Sadly I even remember when a guy from gaming news site asked some workers at Creative Assembly in an interview if their game will include some AoS elements. The answear was more or less something like: "hell no. we have several guys at the studio who play tabletop Warhammer and none of them even thinks of touching AoS!". Reporter concluded that this is fantastic news.

Later on after the game was released I joined a Total War: Warhammer forum. From time to time AoS case was mentioned and I was the only defender of AoS. Hatred was great even in those that never played tabletop Warhammer but were fans of Black Library f.e.

I guess we still need to wait for an AAA video game title. AoS brand needs to be settled in everybody mind as the True Warhammer. I'd guess that still majority of people that associate "Warhammer" still haven't heard of AoS. No big video developer will risk investing hundreds of millions $ into a risky brand.

If I were GW I'd delicately force each licensee to put at least one element of AoS in their Warhammer productions. Like a free DLC for Total War: Warhammer with Stormcast Eternals faction. It doesn't matter it's against the lore and setting. Just make them cool and playable. They need to broaden AoS awareness among consumers or we will wait like 10 years for AoS to become recognizable and attractive for video game devs.

[EMMachine]

I don't know, I don't see Total War fitting with AoS (because all Total War Games are basicly rank & file games, which is not the case for AoS).

Something like the Warhammer 40k Dawn of War Series would fit AoS more likely (there was even something like realmgates in some of the Dawn of War Campaigns.

[shinros]

An AOS rts game is being worked on by the devs of dawn of war 1 and 2.

[Gecktron]

1 minute ago, shinros said:

An AOS rts game is being worked on by the devs of dawn of war 1 and 2.

If anyone wants to know more: 


Developed by Gasket Games and published by Focus Home Interactive. 

[CJPT]

The attractiveness of WHFB to Creative Assembly is about more than the popularity of the setting. The Old World was a good fit for a Total War game: it's a well-defined, historical-feeling space with almost every corner of the map fleshed out and a clear sense of what can and can't happen. That puts it firmly within CA's wheelhouse, which had always been about adopting a particular moment in history and allowing players to move the pieces around. The irony is that this is also why it was becoming an increasingly burdensome IP to GW: the scope for new factions or changes to the status quo became more and more limited as the blank parts of the map got filled in. Over the years, WHFB effectively involved into a great worldbuilding foundation for a videogame (or roleplaying game)and a comparatively limited basis for an ever-expanding fantasy range, which is ultimately the business that GW is in. It made complete sense for them to build up Age of Sigmar as a tabletop game while allowing the Old World to live on in an environment that was much better suited to it.

[shinros]

35 minutes ago, CJPT said:

The attractiveness of WHFB to Creative Assembly is about more than the popularity of the setting. The Old World was a good fit for a Total War game: it's a well-defined, historical-feeling space with almost every corner of the map fleshed out and a clear sense of what can and can't happen. That puts it firmly within CA's wheelhouse, which had always been about adopting a particular moment in history and allowing players to move the pieces around. The irony is that this is also why it was becoming an increasingly burdensome IP to GW: the scope for new factions or changes to the status quo became more and more limited as the blank parts of the map got filled in. Over the years, WHFB effectively involved into a great worldbuilding foundation for a videogame (or roleplaying game)and a comparatively limited basis for an ever-expanding fantasy range, which is ultimately the business that GW is in. It made complete sense for them to build up Age of Sigmar as a tabletop game while allowing the Old World to live on in an environment that was much better suited to it.

Yup that's my view on it as well, WHFB is a great RPG/video game setting but as an expanding wargame? It just doesn't work, when they want to add new things it's normally arbitrary and weird. Aka varghiests, they went with they were always there! Line of storytelling 

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, shinros said:

Yup that's my view on it as well, WHFB is a great RPG/video game setting but as an expanding wargame? It just doesn't work, when they want to add new things it's normally arbitrary and weird. Aka varghiests, they went with they were always there! Line of storytelling 

I would also argue that AoS would be awful for a TW style game, but an RTS where you need to grab objectives on relatively short missions across the realms would be fun.

But then again, that is the core game already, with real people. Though they could object to you bringing a floodlight to a Hyish battle (and that's one of the more benevolent realms for the shop's insurance).

[Beliman]

An Age of Sigmar RTS game that had the same approach of warcraft IV could be 10/10 game.
Total war warhammer is a really good game (I bought the first one with all DLCs), but it's not my taste. 

[Overread]

30 minutes ago, Beliman said:

An Age of Sigmar RTS game that had the same approach of warcraft IV could be 10/10 game.
Total war warhammer is a really good game (I bought the first one with all DLCs), but it's not my taste. 

Sadly RTS is currently really unpopular. 4* Games (once really niche) are doing way better and are popular, whilst RTS is really in a bad place right now. I'd love a Dawn of War style AoS game, but at the same time I don't think there's a big RTS studio out there that would make it good right now. Blizzard are bumbling around with Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 remasters so they don't seem to be pushing new games; EA is remastering the old CnC games and we'll have to see how that goes. After that RTS really isn't that big. There's Planetary Anihillation and Ages of Singularity which have good long term support but I don't get the feeling either is working toward a new game (Ashes might); meanwhile everything else is mostly dead in the water. The closest might be Battlefleet Gothic 2 though their studio has a repeat habbit of launching games and then dropping them like a lead brick about 6 months or so later. 

 

 

Edit - personally I think once CA has done Warhammer 3 and released the last expansion the natural progression for them is AoS Total War. It's also the natural progression for GW to push the licence agreement; shift things into the new age. CA could then also do one of their SAGA games set in whatever setting GW chooses to use for their remake of the Old World - since CA could just use all their assets from the first games into that. 

I think the Anti AoS crowd would dwindle in face of a powerful well made AoS game. Heck lets not forget many of the CA TW fans will never have heard of Old World until the TW game. Plus the campaign that CA has made is leading up nicely to their own End Times event. They've already baiscally got a MASSIVE demonic invasion and demon army focus for the 3rd game; whilst things like the shutting down of the huge swirling anti-demon vortex is part of the second game. They've set their own stage for ending their own creation. 

[JackStreicher]

14 minutes ago, Overread said:

Sadly RTS is currently really unpopular. 4* Games (once really niche) are doing way better and are popular, whilst RTS is really in a bad place right now. 

As s.o. who is working in the games industry as developer and 3D Artist I can tell you why and it‘s not due to a lack of demand:

RTS games are harder to monetize via microtransactions, since you have to put more work into creating a dlc content than you’d have into creating Skins. Games nowadays are all about microtransactions and therefor investors are less willing to put money into RTS games.

 

Similar arguments have been made for single player role playing games, quote „not profitable“ - They‘ve been proven wrong by CD Project Red‘s incredible success of the witcher 3, which was beyond profitable without scammy cutouts of content or microtransactions.

Learnings: These Genres are profitable but you can‘t simply produce 0815 ****** games of the genre while getting a lot of revenue due to microtransactions. They‘re just not the easiest way to make money since you actually have to produce a high quality game in a age where buggy alpha builds of shooter XY have become the standard (thx EA for ruining everything).

Edited February 7, 2020 by JackStreicher

[novakai]

2 hours ago, Gecktron said:

If anyone wants to know more: 


Developed by Gasket Games and published by Focus Home Interactive. 

I am excited about what Gasket games might do with AoS but since they are a small developer that where created very recently, what they might produce something very small scale.

so maybe temper expectation I guess

[Beliman]

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

Sadly RTS is currently really unpopular. 4* Games (once really niche) are doing way better and are popular, whilst RTS is really in a bad place right now. I'd love a Dawn of War style AoS game, but at the same time I don't think there's a big RTS studio out there that would make it good right now. Blizzard are bumbling around with Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 remasters so they don't seem to be pushing new games; EA is remastering the old CnC games and we'll have to see how that goes. After that RTS really isn't that big. There's Planetary Anihillation and Ages of Singularity which have good long term support but I don't get the feeling either is working toward a new game (Ashes might); meanwhile everything else is mostly dead in the water. The closest might be Battlefleet Gothic 2 though their studio has a repeat habbit of launching games and then dropping them like a lead brick about 6 months or so later. 

Well, you never know when the next "Blizzard" will hit the market (umm that's not true, the next Blizzard is Riot, but whatever). But I was just talking about what I really would like to see.

Btw, it's not about being popular, it's all about cycles. We have some RTS being developed at this moment (AoE being the main star), so we don't know what will happen in the future.

Maybe Blizzard Activision will push a new Warcraft IV if Shadowlands/Overwatch 2 doesn't hit the mark (?)

[JackStreicher]

3 minutes ago, novakai said:

I am excited about what Gasket games might do with AoS but since they are a small developer that where created very recently, what they might produce something very small scale.

so maybe temper expectation I guess

You might be surprised what smaller studios can put out. Yet don‘t expect a AAA polish ^^

Edited February 7, 2020 by JackStreicher

[novakai]

Just now, JackStreicher said:

You might be surprised what smaller devs can put out. Yet don‘t expect a AAA polish ^^

I hope it something more polish then the Mordheim video game, it was a good game but not really polish and the developers stopped updating  it to do Necromunda.

maybe at the same level as the first Vermintide game would be my greatest hope

[Kirjava13]

I dream up AoS-as-Dawn of War when I'm struggling to get to sleep. Much better fit for AoS than Total War.

Also I forget who said it a page back or something but it's not elitist to suggest that self-identifying "gamer" communities are poisonous places. 

[Whitefang]

What about a Soul like aos game

settle in the end time of AOS, you are the last few of surviving SCE, scarred, withered but still be able to respawn. 
You will travel through different dying realms to see how far they have fallen from what they once were, and fight the remain of dead gods (heck just think about the ruin of fallen sky port of Kharadron or an echo of Nagash boss fight)

Different ends (chaos, annihilation, hope in the darkness)

Would be an auto-buy for me but I doubt GW will give licensing for such a theme haha

[Realmhead]

I may be the only one,  but I feel the 'Warriors' line of games(the Dynasty Warriors series, and more recently Hyrule Warriors, and Fire Emblem Warriors) would be a perfect fit for the heroic scale of AoS. 

[Walrustaco]

I want an Ogor dating sim

[Phasteon]

42 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

What about a Soul like aos game

settle in the end time of AOS, you are the last few of surviving SCE, scarred, withered but still be able to respawn. 
You will travel through different dying realms to see how far they have fallen from what they once were, and fight the remain of dead gods (heck just think about the ruin of fallen sky port of Kharadron or an echo of Nagash boss fight)

Different ends (chaos, annihilation, hope in the darkness)

Would be an auto-buy for me but I doubt GW will give licensing for such a theme haha

Very cool idea! 

 

I already made a playthrough with a very burly red-hair-bearded character, called him Fjul-Grimnir and just wore the loin-cloth and the greataxe (which I farmed at the first axe-wielding undead on lothric wall). It was my best run of Dark Souls 3 💪🏻

[Whitefang]

30 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Very cool idea! 

 

I already made a playthrough with a very burly red-hair-bearded character, called him Fjul-Grimnir and just wore the loin-cloth and the greataxe (which I farmed at the first axe-wielding undead on lothric wall). It was my best run of Dark Souls 3 💪🏻

Sounds fun!

 

 

i accidentally choose the wrong reaction and can not change it anymore so don’t worry about it.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

At the time of the first game's release the total war launcher had a banner saying "you've played the game, now collect the miniatures". Of course anyone clicking it was taken to a near -incomprehensible list of AOS subfactions with about  three model kits in each ¯\(°_o)/¯

Total Warhammer has bridged the gap a bit to a potential AOS version in terms of the battle mechanics adding in more heroic  fantasy stuff, but the campaign/map stuff isn't a good fit for aos at all imo

[DatHomieSilverSurfer]

6 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

 

Turin is starting AoS, and when listening to him casting I think he is quite respectful of other people. There are problems on ladder, but people spamming op single entities isn't worse than people spamming Keepers.

yea, some of the people complaining about 'tw pc streamers/gamers' obviously have no clue what they're talking about. Turin (arguably the face of TW: Warhammer) is like the nicest, most positive dude ever, and has even started a Cities of Sigmar army. You also have friendly, nice guys like Loremaster of Sotek/Italian Spartacus/etc... , all inviting and good potentially ambassadors for any community. I  got into AoS because of that game, and am grateful for it.

 

 

the Total War community forum is a cesspit of idiots and likely young children, but its no worse than most of the Warhammer themed forums like Dakka Dakka/etc...

Edited February 7, 2020 by DatHomieSilverSurfer

[Myrdin]

Its a sad state of affairs. Games used to be a medium for art. A new platform for creative minded individual to bring forth their worlds, characters, settings, and whatever fantastic adventure they wish to lay before the player. Putting a lot of effort and passion used to be a norm. And the audience repriciated those feelings by supporting the developers and showering them with love. There was a simbiotic relationship between the Creators and Players. It was a good era, heck the best era, only hampered by the limitations of the Hard/Software used.

These days though.... the 3A gaming industry is just another form of squeezing out money of the people by putting as little effort as possible while squeezing the maximum possible profit out of their "consumers"  (......).

While there are still some vestiges of creative flame burning, those are merely exceptions to the rule these days. Long is gone the passion, and love for the game=art. Long gone is the dear and strong bond between the creators and their player community.

 

As for Blizzard ACTIVISION.... well.... it would be a lot of words, and a wall of text, if I had to express what I feel about the whole Warcraft Refunded/Rejected situation. And I wish not to take the space for that here. But for those who are well versed in the Warcraft lore and have seen all the cinematic, know the characters and the lore even if just from playing WoW, I will say only this..... I now know, how Illidan felt.