The Rumour Thread

[RuneBrush]

6 hours ago, madmac said:

The heavy Black Library focus on Neferata continues to be interesting given the current state of Vampires. I would normally be all over the novellas but recent experience has taught me to wait for the inevitable compilation books.

I've really enjoyed all of the Neferata stories so far, because they aren't too "game" focused.  Lots of political intrigue and machinations that don't come across well in anything other than a tabletop RPG session.  100% agree on the novella's although this is a full size novel 🙂

[Whitefang]

Well to me latter novels Neferata seems a bit too naive and childish for an old vampire like her

Curious to see how is it in this one

Edited October 7, 2019 by Whitefang

[Dirtnaps]

7 hours ago, madmac said:

Also the focus on Dryads as protagonists felt weird given that they're not a thing in any of the Underworlds games

To be fair the Shadespire novel also did this by having a Freeguild deserter as one of it's protagonists alongside Isengrim who was a bloodbound that wasn't apart of Garrek's Reavers or Magore's Fiends, that said the novel did feature or at least mention a few of the in game warbands. I haven't read Beastgrave myself yet but it's possible the same thing might have been done there.

[Dirtnaps]

4 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Do you have the source of the information about the Deepkin novel?

 

Probably in this episode.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Dirtnaps

[Kramer]

10 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Well to me latter novels Neferata seems a bit too naive and childish for an old vampire like her

Curious to see how is it in this one

Yeah feel the same... on the other hand she's always been written that way. Towering arrogance and quite childish responses to frustration. Starting to feel it's on purpose as the dead don't change, she doesn't develop/change her character.  But I might be reading too much into that. 

[Overread]

47 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah feel the same... on the other hand she's always been written that way. Towering arrogance and quite childish responses to frustration. Starting to feel it's on purpose as the dead don't change, she doesn't develop/change her character.  But I might be reading too much into that. 

It's a commonly displayed theme with many vampire novels and lore that they remain stuck at the state they were in when turned. So younger vampires are often far more emotional and impulsive and childish even when they've had millennia of experience. At their core they are still that person who was turned however many thousands of years ago. 

Also I'd wager that after a while time and maturity no longer link together, especially once you've outlived your natural body life by many many times over. 

 

You see the same thing in the way Ulrika is displayed in her stories and in the Gotrek and Felix tales, if anything her vampiric state actually knocks her back a bit with the way they have their covens. You also see it mirrored in several of the other (older) vampires around her as well. 

 

I figure for Warhammer this retreat into a bit of childhood for many of them is not just a means to reflect their unchanging state over the millennia, but also a means by which they are kept in check from simply taking over everything because they can outlive any competition. In theory a very mature, very smart vampire has no need of armies - they can sneak, hide and worm their way into society and play the long game taking everything over from the shadows. Yet in practice we see them getting childishly and emotionally impulsive, withdrawn, cattish infighting etc... 

[EMMachine]

1 hour ago, Whitefang said:

Well to me latter novels Neferata seems a bit too naive and childish for an old vampire like her

Curious to see how is it in this one

 

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Yeah feel the same... on the other hand she's always been written that way. Towering arrogance and quite childish responses to frustration. Starting to feel it's on purpose as the dead don't change, she doesn't develop/change her character.  But I might be reading too much into that. 

 

18 minutes ago, Overread said:

It's a commonly displayed theme with many vampire novels and lore that they remain stuck at the state they were in when turned. So younger vampires are often far more emotional and impulsive and childish even when they've had millennia of experience. At their core they are still that person who was turned however many thousands of years ago. 

Also I'd wager that after a while time and maturity no longer link together, especially once you've outlived your natural body life by many many times over. 

 

You see the same thing in the way Ulrika is displayed in her stories and in the Gotrek and Felix tales, if anything her vampiric state actually knocks her back a bit with the way they have their covens. You also see it mirrored in several of the other (older) vampires around her as well. 

 

I figure for Warhammer this retreat into a bit of childhood for many of them is not just a means to reflect their unchanging state over the millennia, but also a means by which they are kept in check from simply taking over everything because they can outlive any competition. In theory a very mature, very smart vampire has no need of armies - they can sneak, hide and worm their way into society and play the long game taking everything over from the shadows. Yet in practice we see them getting childishly and emotionally impulsive, withdrawn, cattish infighting etc... 

The only stories of Neferata I had so read/listen to so far were "The Dance of the Skulls" and Black Atonement (+ here presence in Spear of Shadows and Soulwars).

Listening to Black Atonement I had partly the feeling that she also has "One Bat short of a Belfry" like they named the rule for Konrad von Carstein in the Compendium. 

[Whitefang]

10 hours ago, Overread said:

I figure for Warhammer this retreat into a bit of childhood for many of them is not just a means to reflect their unchanging state over the millennia, but also a means by which they are kept in check from simply taking over everything because they can outlive any competition. In theory a very mature, very smart vampire has no need of armies - they can sneak, hide and worm their way into society and play the long game taking everything over from the shadows. Yet in practice we see them getting childishly and emotionally impulsive, withdrawn, cattish infighting etc... 

But, but good sir, in my mind  as one of 3 (well, 5 now) mortarchs, one of the  few creatures (?)  who is just less powerful than a god, master manipulator and the oldest spymaster in the mortal realms,  Neferata should just be like the "really smart vampire" that you described, not some arrogant  cartoonish bad girl who grant happiness  and superiority from tricking young boy and his ancestors...

[Aeryenn]

I think we are through all or almost all models for OBR and apart from catapult I see no range units? I'm pretty sure @Thomas Lyonstold a rumour they were supposed to be a ranged army. 

[sandlemad]

So how about that new Ossiarch hero? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/07/lords-of-the-ossiarch-bonereapers-revealedgw-homepage-post-2/

Good to see a generic fighty hero too, the Liege-Kavalos, I was getting concerned that there wouldn't be one. Looks cool too, it's very much the same silhouette as the Lord-Celestant on Dracoth but he's also got a pretty close pose to that of Volturnos. I like the continuity between Mannfred & Co.'s dread abyssals and the mount, looks slightly more pronounced than on the regular cavalrymen.

The special character version isn't bad - check out that Egyptian-style bone beard! - but the generic one wins out, I think.

[Whitefang]

I like the mount of SC far more than the normal one, but think the face of generic one is better, looks more like a proper skull

Also their pose just looks like mirroring IDK Akelian Kings

[Vasshpit]

I want to like them, I really do..the  concept is really cool but the models are just so cheesy in my eyes. Maybe after the drop and different paint jobs start popping up I may see them differently but doubtful. 

The four- armed walking throne character looks interesting so actually looking forward to see better pics but overall this fan was just disappointed with this new faction, more so with each new reveal. 😕😔

[Dirtnaps]

24 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Also their pose just looks like mirroring IDK Akelian Kings

Yeah that seems to be a bit of a problem with their mounted on horse-equivalent heroes, they all have very similar poses. But to be fair how many heroic poses on a horse can there be really? That said I wouldn't mind an action pose every now and then similar to what they did with the new Loonboss on Giant Squig.

[Rogue Explorator]

I think the thing about using the rather limited palette of commanding poses they use on the mounted leader types is that they don't look out of place whether they are placed is combat or not.

Use a more fighty pose and it looks awkward just deployed. Use a more at ease pose and it doesn't really don't look the part in melee.

Now, all in all, I don't think GW is too fussed if a pose doesn't really fit every situation. They go for a rather wild mix of combat action, at ease, doing something non-combat and pure posing with unit kits and less central heroes. But I think it's different for these kind of miniatures.

Along with some others, Aekelian Kings, Lord Celestants or now the Liege-Kavalos are intendet to be the go-to Generals of their factions and quite often the first centerpiece a player will get for a new army. That makes them quite important to the appeal of the faction as a whole. So those really need to look good in every marketing shot (so, placed in and out of combat), as well as drawing more attention from their owners.

It propably also really helps that they are also the poses people learn to expect to see in paintings and monuments of various generals, immediatly calling them out as army leaders to even casual onlookers.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Rogue Explorator

[Shearl]

Others have touched upon it, but I don't think I'd say the pose is simply copied from SC or other heroes. 

GW has chosen similar poses for for many of their mounted heroes for a reason, take a look at artistic depictions of historical figures (horses seem to rarely have all four hooves on the ground)

 

[Drib]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Shearl said:

Others have touched upon it, but I don't think I'd say the pose is simply copied from SC or other heroes. 

GW has chosen similar poses for for many of their mounted heroes for a reason, take a look at artistic depictions of historical figures (horses seem to rarely have all four hooves on the ground)

 

 

Never recognized where Archaons pose came from!

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Shearl said:

Others have touched upon it, but I don't think I'd say the pose is simply copied from SC or other heroes. 

GW has chosen similar poses for for many of their mounted heroes for a reason, take a look at artistic depictions of historical figures (horses seem to rarely have all four hooves on the ground)

 

Some views maintain that a horse statue with one leg raised is associated with a rider who was injured but did not die in battle.

A horse with all four feet on the ground is said to represent a rider that was neither killed nor injured in battle but who died away from the battlefield of something unrelated to war or battle.

A horse with both the legs in air is said to represent a rider who died in the battlefield, during a war.

[Souleater]

What's a horse standing on three tacticool rocks represent? 

[Austin]

14 minutes ago, Souleater said:

What's a horse standing on three tacticool rocks represent? 

Roboute Guilliman. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Austin

[pseudonyme]

2 hours ago, Shearl said:

Others have touched upon it, but I don't think I'd say the pose is simply copied from SC or other heroes. 

GW has chosen similar poses for for many of their mounted heroes for a reason, take a look at artistic depictions of historical figures (horses seem to rarely have all four hooves on the ground)

 

Knight of shroud on steed !

[zilberfrid]

41 minutes ago, pseudonyme said:

Knight of shroud on steed !

It's the Freeguild General on horse. He died in the vanguard of the Great Culling of august 2019.

Two legs in the air is correct, the mold is probably worn out, considering the flash on my newest General on Horse, so he went down fighting.

[Kramer]

8 hours ago, Dirtnaps said:

Yeah that seems to be a bit of a problem with their mounted on horse-equivalent heroes, they all have very similar poses. But to be fair how many heroic poses on a horse can there be really? That said I wouldn't mind an action pose every now and then similar to what they did with the new Loonboss on Giant Squig.

Standing on the mount, leaning forward extremely like there charging, running besides the mount, already lancing a enemy, hanging on the side of the mount while slashing a weapon, actively shouting orders, while drawing a weapon, mount pouncing while the hero hangs on for dear life, mount cuddling the rider*, etc. I honestly think their more  options than foot heroes as you can play with the interaction between mount and rider. 

*imagine kurghos khul’s hellhound licking the face of mister khul when his doggie jumps up to slobber his face 😂

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

Some views maintain that a horse statue with one leg raised is associated with a rider who was injured but did not die in battle.

A horse with all four feet on the ground is said to represent a rider that was neither killed nor injured in battle but who died away from the battlefield of something unrelated to war or battle.

A horse with both the legs in air is said to represent a rider who died in the battlefield, during a war.

Ill try to find the source but I’m pretty sure this has been disproved. Something about one statue maker that did do this and people shouting ‘see it’s true’ when it accidentally matches. and kind of ignored when it doesn’t. 

[zilberfrid]

8 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Ill try to find the source but I’m pretty sure this has been disproved. Something about one statue maker that did do this and people shouting ‘see it’s true’ when it accidentally matches. and kind of ignored when it doesn’t. 

Yeah, it is not a universal truth at all, but since it was believed for a time, there is correlation for some statues after the fact.

My statement was deliberately non-authoritive for that reason.

I choose to take this representation when I can, because it helps create a narrative.

Edited October 8, 2019 by zilberfrid

[michu]

@zilberfrid You forgot something: "three legs in the air indicates that the rider got lost on the way to the battle; and four legs in the air means that the sculptor was very, very clever. Five legs in the air means that there's probably at least one other horse standing behind the horse you're looking at; and the rider lying on the ground with his horse lying on top of him with all four legs in the air means that the rider was either a very incompetent horseman or owned a very bad-tempered horse.”

Good old Discworld.