The Rumour Thread

[Thiagoma]

8 minutes ago, Overread said:

I don't think stock had anything to do with it considering that many of the Skaven models kept ran out of stock more than once on the UK store and yet GW kept producing more. GW is also not holding great stocks of much anyway; heck look how fast the HE stuff vanished. A day and it was pretty much all gone. 

Since i had to purchase a lot of models from the High Elves range from GW website i can tell you that most of the stock didnt went to scalpers. Usually things would go without stock for nearly weeks, and sometimes they didnt have enough for your whole purchase (happened to me once trying to buy Dragon Blades, they only had 1 box), so it is no surprise it was over so quickly.

I think the worse part if that those models that looked "safe" were removed with nothing in its place.  Gitmob was removed but replaced with an entire range of new shiny stuff. Granted some units were squatted for good but if you are a goblin fan you would have a field day.  Elves on the other hand, arent even apearing in the rumor engine, unless you count Kurnothi, that are nowhere near that look and feel.

I really wish they had placed us in cities without having to resort to sloppy proxies.

 

[Forrix]

3 hours ago, Panzer said:

I wouldn't say you were lied to per se. The vast majority of models GW released are still useable and the communication is indeed worlds better than it used to be.

It's just that with AoS GW is still in the process of switching from an old game to a new game. They tried the hammer method before and realised it alienated people too much (I'm still surprised it surprised them...), so now they are trying a slow and barely noticeable approach. It's the age old debate of whether one prefers the bandaid to be ripped off in one go or not and there simply is no perfect answer.

I cannot imagine a gaming group recommending someone start a non-battletome army in AOS. Either they gave advice so bad they might as well be lying or the poster started several years back.

I'll also point out that the poster is complaining about an army being removed that is due a battletome in the next couple weeks. That is some serious extremely negative tinfoil hating.  I'm sure the Freeguild models will be removed someday as it is insanity to expect GW to continually produce every model forever but they're not going to dump them right after giving them a battletome. They've already cleaned house for this release. I'd also highly suggest waiting to see what the human models look like before rage quitting based on their looks.

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Since i had to purchase a lot of models from the High Elves range from GW website i can tell you that most of the stock didnt went to scalpers. Usually things would go without stock for nearly weeks, and sometimes they didnt have enough for your whole purchase (happened to me once trying to buy Dragon Blades, they only had 1 box), so it is no surprise it was over so quickly.

I think the worse part if that those models that looked "safe" were removed with nothing in its place.  Gitmob was removed but replaced with an entire range of new shiny stuff. Granted some units were squatted for good but if you are a goblin fan you would have a field day.  Elves on the other hand, arent even apearing in the rumor engine, unless you count Kurnothi, that are nowhere near that look and feel.

I really wish they had placed us in cities without having to resort to sloppy proxies.

 

I agree it was a very shocking series of removals; heck antoher was the removal of the dwarf artiliery after GW only put them in a mercenary faction weeks before. Yet again that's another removal where I'd expect replacement "one day". 

 

Kurnothi are a wildcard at present. Underworld warbands are quite different to the main game armies and I think that, rather like Dark Oath, we cannot expect each one to get its own full AoS army. If anything Underworld would allow GW to release these small warbands, attach them to existing armies in AoS iwth some rules, but by and large be able to explore niche groups within the realms without having to flesh them out to full armies. 

[madmac]

I said months before the Kurnothi were even revealed that there were multiple hints (and at least one rumor) pointing at Wanderers getting expanded into a real army, I'm still baffled by how many people are trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug like it's some kind of impossibility.  Even the just released Sylvaneth tome spends a decent chunk of page count hyping Kurnouth, and the Wild Hunt warband is carefully crafted to fit both older and more modern Wanderer design elements.

Oh well, I won't be modest when the Kurnothi battletome is announced, I'll say that much.

 

 

[Panzer]

24 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I cannot imagine a gaming group recommending someone start a non-battletome army in AOS. Either they gave advice so bad they might as well be lying or the poster started several years back.

Maybe I missed something but I don't remember him saying that his friends recommendet that army to him. Just that they told him that GW rarely 'deletes' armies and that their communication improved a lot. It sounded to me like the decision to start that army was his own.

Now I as friend would have warned him that future support for that kind of army is uncertain, but I'm one of those people who try to give others the complete picture, good and bad. Unfortunately this often gave people the impression that I'm overly negative because nine out of ten times it's the negatives that are missing for the complete picture which I then add.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, madmac said:

I said months before the Kurnothi were even revealed that there were multiple hints (and at least one rumor) pointing at Wanderers getting expanded into a real army, I'm still baffled by how many people are trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug like it's some kind of impossibility.  Even the just released Sylvaneth tome spends a decent chunk of page count hyping Kurnouth, and the Wild Hunt warband is carefully crafted to fit both older and more modern Wanderer design elements.

Oh well, I won't be modest when the Kurnothi battletome is announced, I'll say that much.

I think the thing is if GW were going to flesh out the Wanderers they'd not have put them into the Free Cities. If Kurnothi become their own force then it wouldn't be fleshing out the wanderers but replacing them.

Now I'm in no way saying that's a bad thing - in fact if GW give us a wild-beasts and aelfs army that's something I'd be very interested in indeed! But its not the same as wanderers being fleshed out. Indeed Kurnothi being its own thing would mean wanderer players would have to buy an entirely new force not just expand their own. 

[Thiagoma]

Just now, Overread said:

I think the thing is if GW were going to flesh out the Wanderers they'd not have put them into the Free Cities. If Kurnothi become their own force then it wouldn't be fleshing out the wanderers but replacing them.

Now I'm in no way saying that's a bad thing - in fact if GW give us a wild-beasts and aelfs army that's something I'd be very interested in indeed! But its not the same as wanderers being fleshed out. Indeed Kurnothi being its own thing would mean wanderer players would have to buy an entirely new force not just expand their own. 

I really hope they join the Kurnothi with Wanderers. Need some normal elves instead of fish elves, centaur elves,  murder elves, squirrel elves, ghost elves, monkey elves, disco elves...

[madmac]

Just now, Overread said:

I think the thing is if GW were going to flesh out the Wanderers they'd not have put them into the Free Cities. If Kurnothi become their own force then it wouldn't be fleshing out the wanderers but replacing them.

Now I'm in no way saying that's a bad thing - in fact if GW give us a wild-beasts and aelfs army that's something I'd be very interested in indeed! But its not the same as wanderers being fleshed out. Indeed Kurnothi being its own thing would mean wanderer players would have to buy an entirely new force not just expand their own. 

I just don't agree that Free Cities is a prison that no one can break out from. If the Wanderer models are doomed because they are included in Free Cities, that also means Phoenix Temple will never be a part of Hysh Aelves when they arrive, the entire Dark Aelf range vanishes when Malerion mobilizes, and no Dispossessed model will ever be folded into a new Dwarf update or even a combined dwarf book. After all, they were in Cities, and it's not like we have have multiple examples of different armybooks sharing unit selections. That's exactly why you can't play Tzaangors in BOC, exclusivity contracts are something GW takes very seriously.

I mean look, Cities of Sigmar is obviously as much of a band-aid book as Legions of Nagash was.  GW had to do something to clean up Order in the short to mid-term, but they had no compelling reason to keep around specific Aelf models just so they could be in Cities of Sigmar. The entire Wanderers line is just 4 kits now, if GW was planning to replace them in less than a year it wouldn't have been any harder to squat Wanderers entirely than it was to cancel High Aelves.

Besides, Wanderers have had GHB rules for years, which isn't something you could say about any of the just squatted subfactions. The Cities of Sigmar list is looking like pretty much the GHB allegiance ability list except with the surprise inclusion of Phoenix Temple and Corsairs.

 

[chord]

1 hour ago, Panzer said:

To be fair it's not 'just' his opinion. GW already told us themselves that they didn't handle it that as well as they could at first, that with the help of community feedback they made the improvements that brought us to where we are today and that they saw the positivity of those changes reflected in their sales numbers.

There was a loud vocal minority but I don't recall hard sales numbers being released.  

[Elmir]

48 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think the thing is if GW were going to flesh out the Wanderers they'd not have put them into the Free Cities. If Kurnothi become their own force then it wouldn't be fleshing out the wanderers but replacing them.

After LoN (the soup tome essentially) and then the MASSIVE expansion of both the malignant creature type(being nighthaunt)  and now, the  reanimant creature type (being the bonereapers), I really fail to see how you can jump to this conclusion. 

[chord]

1 hour ago, AthlorianStoners said:

No high elf army received any form of support, no Battletome, no new models, barely any lore representation outside of Phoenix temple.

Swifthawks were mentioned a lot throughout the lore.   

[Panzer]

4 minutes ago, chord said:

There was a loud vocal minority but I don't recall hard sales numbers being released.  

Not hard sales numbers but you can read it in their annual reports and they talked about it in interviews. It definitely wasn't a vocal minority. If anything the ones who liked AoS how it got released were the minority.

[Kyriakin]

I am in a weird position where I didn't like the original incarnation of AoS as it was too "loose" and freeform, with no points and barely any structure.

It probably hit a sweet-spot at some point during the pendulum swing. Maybe around the time that allies were introduced.

But now AoS is too risky in terms of current and future squattings, and, as a result, feels too railroaded in terms of faction options. In addition, the community feels more competitive and list-obsessed than before.

Basically, I feel it's gone from too open and unrestricted to too competitive and restrictive - if that makes any sense - and I sit firmly in the middle of that spectrum.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Overread]

I think it will steady itself somewhat. In theory once all factions are equipped with battletomes we should see the end of mass removals and hopefully an improvement in the games overall balance. Both in terms of army vs army; but also within battletomes so that different forces have more than one "trick" up their sleeve.

Some armies are already better than others in that regard. Forces like Slaanesh are clearly built around a single dominant mechanic and theme (Depravity generation) whilst others like Looncurse are a bit more freeform and varied. 

[JackStreicher]

23 hours ago, Mutton said:

Agreed. Age of Sigmar has long since been grounded in any kind of logic or reality. That's what the Old World was. But the Mortal Realms are a universe of bonkers magic and unpredictability. It's mythical fantasy where anything goes. If anyone expects otherwise, it might not be the setting for them (or at least accept that "realism" is not a thing here).

Not true, there‘s still gravity and cities don‘t suddenly start to drift towards the void for no reason after decades of perfectly fine physics—> there are logical concepts in place.  „eh that‘s magic duh!“ as an explanation to every fantasy-unlogical event is a bad and empty defence of a bad design choice that was implemented lazily.

just imagine the necroquake happened without us knowing why, by whom etc. And The only explanation we‘d have gotten was „magic, duh! It‘s the mortal magical realms“.

——-——

it is kind of interesting though that a lot of people are irritated by the latest squatting wave. Also (Dunno if this is due to the squatting or the strange release and news delays) I feel less and less hype about new releases. This one left me mostly cold. 

Btw is it only me or is anyone else surprised that there was no information follow up on the Ossiarchs whatsoever today? (That‘s how you kill hype, waiting too long for follow up infos). Also it‘s pretty clear that the only other new models they‘ll reveal will be a bone-fortress of some sort which makes this army feel really small and lackluster?

Edited August 30, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Overread]

If the release isn't until October then GW doesn't need to hype it up any more. Right now its their new plane game which is the focus of today's article and tomorrows pre-order release. Heck come Sunday we might be seeing cities and/or orruks getting a pre-order sneak peak. 

I think the recent removal of models caught people cold because it was a removal without any new content at the same time. Furthermore it brought back memories of when Brets and TK were removed. Dark times for many fans. It reinforces the fact that wargames are long term investments and products; that GW is unlikely to start retiring any other factions with battletomes now because all it does is send shockwaves. Heck squats are still talked about and they've been gone for AGES! 

 

As for the Realms they are all told quite stable; there are vast tracts of land with thousands of years of history. It's only on the Rim that things are bonkers nuts with formation and destruction of land masses. Otherwise the interior of most is quite stable and sane, if tinged with the properties of the specific realm. Some more than others - the realm of Metal is clearly quite strange with raw minerals aplenty; food likely more scarce and storms of iron rust dust. I think its also because GW has yet to give us maps with big major settlements so each lore story feels  a little disorientating. We are getting there though. 

Warcry, for example, is establishing the Geography of the Eightpoints very well, with set regions and land features and major settlements. I'm sure we'll see campaigns and systems and lore keep fleshign things out until we've major interior regions that are well mapped, complete iwth major key settlements and bastions of power and importance. REgions that if they fall in campaigns send shockwaves through the greater part of their owning Grand Alliance. 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

it is kind of interesting though that a lot of people are irritated by the latest squatting wave. Also (Dunno if this is due to the squatting or the strange release and news delays) I feel less and less hype about new releases. This one left me mostly cold. 

Same here. The ever increasing rate of faction and rules updates has left me behind a bit. I was still focused on trying out meeting engagements when Warcry dropped, now before I even ordered the starter the expansion is already announced. Apparently it works saleswise but I notice myself dropping off. If I can’t keep up, why bother?  And as a result i’m also feeling very little hype about the nova announcements. 

[Overread]

The expansion is only adding more models basically - so all the mechanics are the very same. It's just for things like the creatures of chaos instead of only furies and raptors now there's chimera and likely a few others. Meanwhile things like adding mercenaries is just increasing the character pools for various forces. From what I can tell its not actually changing any of the games core mechanics in any way; save for the addition of mercenaries which will likely be something like "Costs X points and can only have Y number of mercenaries per warband" or somesuch. 

 

 

I agree burnout can happen, but I think its important to pace yourself and not treat it like a computer game where you have to get everything "now". If you try that then unless you can pay pepole to build and paint for you; you will never keep up. It's ok to not jump on things on launch day and to focus on the building of your forces and collection. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Overread

[Forrix]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

Same here. The ever increasing rate of faction and rules updates has left me behind a bit. I was still focused on trying out meeting engagements when Warcry dropped, now before I even ordered the starter the expansion is already announced. Apparently it works saleswise but I notice myself dropping off. If I can’t keep up, why bother?  And as a result i’m also feeling very little hype about the nova announcements. 

I think the Warcry expansion announcement was premature and if you didn't like the new death army that was it for Nova. I think a lot of people, myself included, were hoping for more information on Cities of Sigmar and Orruk Warclans. The squatting wave was never going to go over positively but failing to follow it up with an preview of COS and an idea of how the affected factions will work in the new battletome was a mistake. I think the Slyvaneth shipping issue really screwed up their schedule; I suspect COS was already supposed to be out by now.

[DarkWingDuck]

4 hours ago, chord said:

Swifthawks were mentioned a lot throughout the lore.   

Eldritch Council also showed up regularly in Lore. The Loremaster was a character in Shadows over Hammerhal. The Eldritch Council is mentioned fairly regularly throughout Josh Reynolds books iirc. An Eldritch Council Tower was described as a semi-regular fixture in a Free City. They even get mentioned as the ones called in to remove the taint of Chaos when all else fails (High Elf Mages being particularly good at dispelling magic).

Comparatively, the Pheonix Temple actually barely shows up. Their only mention was alongside Phoenicium, but there's never been a Black Library story that's set there that I can recall. I can't remember a Black Library story that has Pheonix Guards in it. Other than the blurbs describing the Season of War, I can't think of a single significant mention.

[zilberfrid]

6 hours ago, Forrix said:

I cannot imagine a gaming group recommending someone start a non-battletome army in AOS. Either they gave advice so bad they might as well be lying or the poster started several years back.

I'll also point out that the poster is complaining about an army being removed that is due a battletome in the next couple weeks. That is some serious extremely negative tinfoil hating.  I'm sure the Freeguild models will be removed someday as it is insanity to expect GW to continually produce every model forever but they're not going to dump them right after giving them a battletome. They've already cleaned house for this release. I'd also highly suggest waiting to see what the human models look like before rage quitting based on their looks.

I was asking generally about removal of armies, and about communication from the company. This was before I chose a faction, just thinking about starting Warhammer at all.

I then chose a faction I like, one which I did know had no battletome. None of the other armies spoke to me at a similar level.

I was not saying they would drop them right after the battletome, it will take a few years, but if GW is not making a new mould, well, I am not confident in the faction staying.

If Freeguild current models get replaced by new ones, I would rejoice. Certainly the current general, guards and crossbowmen need replacing. If GW phases out the only human order faction (SCE are not human, despite their keyword), I have no interest in staying around. For the moment, this has not yet been done.

As we learned this summer, dumping entire factions needs not really be spoken about by GW before executing it, so we can't be sure when they stab which fans in their back.

[Icarion]

I really love the look of the models and the potential for the lore, but is anyone else disappointed by the name?

ossiarch has its roots in the word ossify and the Latin word  ‘os’ meaning bone. So their faction name is basically ‘Boney Bonereapers’

Would have been so much happier with Ossiarch legions, or simply the bone tithe instead.

[Kramer]

19 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

I really love the look of the models and the potential for the lore, but is anyone else disappointed by the name?

ossiarch has its roots in the word ossify and the Latin word  ‘os’ meaning bone. So their faction name is basically ‘Boney Bonereapers’

Would have been so much happier with Ossiarch legions, or simply the bone tithe instead.

Makes it better knowing that! Boney Bonereaper Bro’s ☠️

[zilberfrid]

20 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

I really love the look of the models and the potential for the lore, but is anyone else disappointed by the name?

ossiarch has its roots in the word ossify and the Latin word  ‘os’ meaning bone. So their faction name is basically ‘Boney Bonereapers’

Would have been so much happier with Ossiarch legions, or simply the bone tithe instead.

Well, they are bony, and they reap more bones.

[swarmofseals]

28 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

I really love the look of the models and the potential for the lore, but is anyone else disappointed by the name?

ossiarch has its roots in the word ossify and the Latin word  ‘os’ meaning bone. So their faction name is basically ‘Boney Bonereapers’

Would have been so much happier with Ossiarch legions, or simply the bone tithe instead.

Don't forget the -arch suffix! From wikipedia:

 

"From Late Latin -archa, from Latin -archēs, from Ancient Greek -άρχης (-árkhēs), from ἀρχή (arkhḗ, “rule, government”), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h₂ergʰ- (“to begin, rule, command”)."

So really it's more like "Bonelord Bonereapers" but that of course suffers from the same problem. It's a little better than Boney Bonereapers though XD

Personally I'd have just called them The Tithe. It's way scarier, way more evocative, and perfectly descriptive of what they do.