The Rumour Thread

[suedester]

What time is today's studio preview?

[Melcavuk]

2am GMT from what I can see.

[Skabnoze]

9 hours ago, Aryann said:

I'm not sure we can speak of evolution of some kind. Latest factions/battletomes were combo ones but now they might return to release small factions again. And in some way they do that - Flesh-Eater Courts second battletome. They could have just implement them in the next Legions of Nagash book instead of releasing their own "small" battletome again.

Then again latest battletomes might be combo style by people demand. Battletomes created of left-overs (no aversion meant) that were not intended to receive new models (LoN, BoC, Spiderfang, Skaven). Spiderfang could have been adapted into Gloomspite battletome or left abandonded. GW decided former. There are not to many "left-over" factions left - Aelves? with Free People? Dispossessed with Ironweld in addition? That's one battletome. Now we will probably receive Slaves to Darkness + Archaon + new Darkoath. That's second combo battletome. MAYBE Ogors if that counts. After that I'm pretty sure GW will return to mono-faction battletomes with Malerion aelves, Tyrion Aelves, Slaanesh and so on.

I apologize, but I am not really certain what point you are trying to express here.

Are you saying that you think combo-books are temporary and they won't ever come back to those combo battletomes in the future?  History tells me that GW will rewrite every army book at least one time before potentially dropping them from the game (and army removal is quite infrequent).  But the combo battletomes and mono battletomes are still following the same basic format - with some differences to account for handling sub-allegiances.  But each book still seems to contain allegiance abilities, spell lores, relics, command traits, and battalions.  Usually you can also include conditional battleline as well.  Not all current books have these things and you can definitely see an evolution over time.  They iterated to that format, but it seems pretty set in stone at this point.  

Sure, not everything should be a combo book and probably won't be.  I would expect that for the most part combo books are a tool to consolidate things - most of which is left overs from Warhammer Fantasy.  That said, I expect combo books will be with us for quite a while and I would not rule out GW making another combo faction out of the blue.  These are just tools in a toolbox and you never know what ideas the design team will come up with down the road.

But with the current state of factions right now there are a lot of books that do not fit the current format for what an army book is (ignore combo or mono).  Any book prior to Sylvaneth are missing a whole lot of what are now standard parts.  The GHB filled in some of that, for some factions, but not everything.  These are the things I was mentioning should be addressed to put the game in a better state.

[prochuvi]

2 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

Are you trying to tell me that we have a rumour in the rumour thread? Since you're mentioning that, are there any other rewrites or releases you know of? 

I'm also curious about what you mean by virtually no representation. Are they not still played at tournaments? Did a list with KO not finish 2nd at CanCon as was mentioned?

Nop.kharadrom played the final and could have winned the cancon. But lost and finished the cancon at the 11th

 

Btw it isnt a rumour but a bive,i think in lvo the new darkoath army gonna be shown

Edited February 7, 2019 by prochuvi
Dont double post

[Nightcast Eternal]

On 1/24/2019 at 11:06 PM, The_Yellow_Sign said:

It's mostly wishful thinking on my part because Dragon Ogres used to be part of the same faction as Warriors of Chaos back in WHFB.  I just really want a plastic Shaggoth...

I agree, the Shaggoth is and alright sculpt, but the other Dragon Ogres really have not aged well.

[Nightcast Eternal]

On 1/24/2019 at 10:45 PM, Yoshiya said:

Yea, id actually say that Hysh is the least expanded upon of all the realms. They haven't really said which chaos god is dominant there (assume Tzeentch but he's Chamon too) and all we know is that a bunch of yet unreleased 'light' aelves are there.

The core book stuff was brief too and I think we only have a very limited about of art for the realm. I expect there building up something in the background that gradually lead to a major campaign there which I assume will be related to Slaanesh and the aelves.

 

For the record, I believe the following expand each realm:

- Azyr - stormcast, small section in beasts of chaos

- Ashqy - fyreslayers, khorne, anything about hammerhal, large section in core book, seems to commonly show up in other stories and battletomes and is likely most fleshed out realm

- shyish - legions of Nagash, flesh eater courts, nighthaunt, large section in core book

- ghyran - Slyvaneth, nurgle, large section in core book

- Chamon - Tzeentch, khahadron overlords, gloomspite gitz

- Ghur - bonesplitterz, beastclaw raiders, ironjawz

- Ulgu - daughters of Khaine

- Hysh - small section in Deepkin

(Deepkin kind of touches on a lot of realms but only really the seas for obvious reasons. Focus on ghyran and shyish from what I remember)

 

Don't forget some of the Black Library books. 'Nagash, Undying King' really fleshed out Shyish

[Nightcast Eternal]

On 1/24/2019 at 10:45 PM, Yoshiya said:

Yea, id actually say that Hysh is the least expanded upon of all the realms. They haven't really said which chaos god is dominant there (assume Tzeentch but he's Chamon too) and all we know is that a bunch of yet unreleased 'light' aelves are there.

The core book stuff was brief too and I think we only have a very limited about of art for the realm. I expect there building up something in the background that gradually lead to a major campaign there which I assume will be related to Slaanesh and the aelves.

 

For the record, I believe the following expand each realm:

- Azyr - stormcast, small section in beasts of chaos

- Ashqy - fyreslayers, khorne, anything about hammerhal, large section in core book, seems to commonly show up in other stories and battletomes and is likely most fleshed out realm

- shyish - legions of Nagash, flesh eater courts, nighthaunt, large section in core book

- ghyran - Slyvaneth, nurgle, large section in core book

- Chamon - Tzeentch, khahadron overlords, gloomspite gitz

- Ghur - bonesplitterz, beastclaw raiders, ironjawz

- Ulgu - daughters of Khaine

- Hysh - small section in Deepkin

(Deepkin kind of touches on a lot of realms but only really the seas for obvious reasons. Focus on ghyran and shyish from what I remember)

 

Don't forget some of the Black Library books. 'Nagash, Undying King' really fleshed out Shyish

[Skabnoze]

17 minutes ago, Nightcast Eternal said:

I agree, the Shaggoth is and alright sculpt, but the other Dragon Ogres really have not aged well.

That is weird, because they are honestly pretty new sculpts in regards to stuff carried over from Warhammer Fantasy.  You should have seen the Dragon Ogre sculpts prior to the current plastic ones.

[Nightcast Eternal]

Just now, Skabnoze said:

That is weird, because they are honestly pretty new sculpts in regards to stuff carried over from Warhammer Fantasy.  You should have seen the Dragon Ogre sculpts prior to the current plastic ones.

I'm glad I didn't yikes

 

[Skabnoze]

Just now, Nightcast Eternal said:

I'm glad I didn't yikes

 

I really like the current Dragon Ogres.  Why do you say they have not aged well?  I cannot see anything poor about the sculpt.  They are Ogre/Dragon centaur guys and the sculpt seems pretty appropriate for that.  I get that aesthetics are personal and not everyone will like every concept, but I don't see what about them has not aged well.  There is nothing technically wrong with the sculpts that I can see.  They are not lacking detail for what they are and the proportions & anatomy does not seem wrong.  The GW plastic Minotaurs on the other hand have muscles that simply do not make any anatomical sense.  I would say that those have aged poorly - but to each their own.

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

But the combo battletomes and mono battletomes are still following the same basic format - with some differences to account for handling sub-allegiances.  But each book still seems to contain allegiance abilities, spell lores, relics, command traits, and battalions.

That is obvious.

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

Are you saying that you think combo-books are temporary and they won't ever come back to those combo battletomes in the future?  History tells me that GW will rewrite every army book at least one time before potentially dropping them from the game (and army removal is quite infrequent).

That's what the whole discussion was about - assumption that GW is moving from mono-faction battletomes to LoN and GSG combo battletomes. And I made my post disagreeing with it. I believe it's temporary. Now, we might see 1-2 more combo battletomes and sure there will be rewrites especially for fan-favourite Legions of Nagash but I believe that GW will mostly focus on mono faction battletomes in their future releases. At least that's what I want to believe as this seperation of WHFB factions was one of the things that attracted me into AoS (and wargaming). I understand that there is no room for each and every little subfaction to receive its own battletome but I won't accept pulling back as f.e. if they decided there is no need for Fyreslayers as a faction and they will be pulled into DWARF BATTLETOME - hell no. If I see they are going that direction it might be the very moment they loose a customer. I'm really, really, tired of classic dwarfs, orks, elfs, humans generic factions and AoS is a leader for me in doing exactly the opposite- creating great, original factions with a strong unique theme.

EDIT: to be hinest, there might be more left-overs + brand new models battletomes which I hate to even think about - Malerion Elves and Tyrion Elves. In my opinion AoS era minis look waaay better and each time they use old models to fill the gaps in new battletomes make me sad (grots and spiderfang in GSG, almost all demons for Khorne, Tzeentzch and Nurgle, witch elves in DoK).

Edited February 7, 2019 by Aryann

[Ironbreaker]

1 minute ago, Aryann said:

That is obvious.

That's what the whole discussion was about - assumption that GW is moving from mono-faction battletomes to LoN and GSG combo battletomes. And I made my post disagreeing with it. I believe it's temporary. Now, we might see 1-2 more combo battletomes and sure there will be rewrites especially for fan-favourite Legions of Nagash but I believe that GW will mostly focus on mono faction battletomes in their future releases. At least that's what I want to believe as this seperation of WHFB factions was one of the things that attracted me into AoS (and wargaming). I understand that there is no room for each and every little subfaction to receive its own battletome but I won't accept pulling back as f.e. if they decided there is no need for Fyreslayers as a faction and they will be pulled into DWARF BATTLETOME - hell no. If I see they are going that direction it might be the very moment they loose a customer. I'm really, really, tired of classic dwarfs, orks, elfs, humans generic factions and AoS is a leader for me in doing exactly the opposite- creating great, original factions with a strong unique theme.

Well, if they get rid of classic dwarfs then they will lose a customer with me. I doubt Fyreslayers will be grouped with Dispossessed unless they do something with Gotrek. It would take some twisting to do so since as far as I know, Gotrek has no dealings with Dispossessed besides being originally from a similar culture. 

[prochuvi]

I guess tastes are very personal,i love old dwarfs elfs etc and HATE the steampunk dwarfs,vampire water elfs etc

Also if gw ignore the old armys they gonna loose me as client.

Im new and i havent played to phantasy but i have bougth a 100% new dispossesed army and some high elfs,i hope gw dont be ****** and continue releasing those battletomes for old armys.

 

So people can choose betwen old aestetics armys or new only due to what they like more and not due to who have the more broken battletome

[Aeryenn]

Just now, Ironbreaker said:

Well, if they get rid of classic dwarfs then they will lose a customer with me. I doubt Fyreslayers will be grouped with Dispossessed unless they do something with Gotrek. It would take some twisting to do so since as far as I know, Gotrek has no dealings with Dispossessed besides being originally from a similar culture. 

I fully understand people who own pre-AoS factions that they want and need a battletome. I just don't want to make all-in-one factions that in my opinion no longer fit. Even Fyreslayers and Dispossessed although  being dwarf are now very different and don't much. Not to mention Fyreslayers and Kharadron Overlords combo. That would be a monstrosity, not a combo-faction.

[novakai]

5 minutes ago, Aryann said:

I fully understand people who own pre-AoS factions that they want and need a battletome. I just don't want to make all-in-one factions that in my opinion no longer fit. Even Fyreslayers and Dispossessed although  being dwarf are now very different and don't much. Not to mention Fyreslayers and Kharadron Overlords combo. That would be a monstrosity, not a combo-faction.

I think GW plans is kind of laid out on the AoS website about how they going to organize the army in the future with maybe the exception of lumping all the Aelf forces together. So far it been  accurate minus the fact that Gitmob got axed from the grots.

I think they still keep Fyreslayer and KO separately, along BCR and Gutbusters, and Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

5 hours ago, prochuvi said:

Sure he did great but the result was no kharadron at the top 10

 

Also maths and stats dont work as you have said,if one people did good then everyone can do it?the whats the point in win rates?

Kharadron,fyreslayers and ironjawz are very weak and need huge buffs.

 

One kharadron doing great at one tournament(that finished 11th so  isnt so great) meaning nothing in a global context where one dude do good with them and then 30 more do it bad with them

KO finished 11th out of 200, and only because he lost to the champion in the final game. Also, the difference between 2nd and 11th was miniscule since they were all on 5/6. The only player who went 6/6 was the champ.

[Klamm]

27 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

That is weird, because they are honestly pretty new sculpts in regards to stuff carried over from Warhammer Fantasy.  You should have seen the Dragon Ogre sculpts prior to the current plastic ones.

I  like them somewhat, but I can see why people have issues. I think it's the splayed posing which is supposed to be dynamic but looks rigid and unnatural (and the feet: the only reason I'm not planning to get Thunderscorn allies is I that CBA to resculpt them).

But, as you say, in terms of detail and overall aesthetic they are quite good. I think the gold standard for older sculpt are regular Ogors: they've got a great amount of detail and their languid posing suits a lumbering gait. 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

33 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

That is weird, because they are honestly pretty new sculpts in regards to stuff carried over from Warhammer Fantasy.  You should have seen the Dragon Ogre sculpts prior to the current plastic ones.

Yeah the Dragon Ogres (barring Shaggoth) are beautiful sculpts, and look even more awesome if you do a bit of basing work to repose them.

[Nightcast Eternal]

50 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I really like the current Dragon Ogres.  Why do you say they have not aged well?  I cannot see anything poor about the sculpt.  They are Ogre/Dragon centaur guys and the sculpt seems pretty appropriate for that.  I get that aesthetics are personal and not everyone will like every concept, but I don't see what about them has not aged well.  There is nothing technically wrong with the sculpts that I can see.  They are not lacking detail for what they are and the proportions & anatomy does not seem wrong.  The GW plastic Minotaurs on the other hand have muscles that simply do not make any anatomical sense.  I would say that those have aged poorly - but to each their own.

They aren't awful, just not my favorite. I don't know, something about their poses. Also I sort of find the paint scheme GW uses for them (on th website) isn't terribly interesting. Idk... just personal taste I guess

[The_Yellow_Sign]

5 minutes ago, Nightcast Eternal said:

They aren't awful, just not my favorite. I don't know, something about their poses. Also I sort of find the paint scheme GW uses for them (on th website) isn't terribly interesting. Idk... just personal taste I guess

Their poses are actually pretty dynamic: you just have to use terrain on your base to make them look like they're climbing over rocks. For example, here's one that I'm working on (just skin and scales have received paint so far):

Edited February 7, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[firebat]

54 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I really like the current Dragon Ogres.  Why do you say they have not aged well?  I cannot see anything poor about the sculpt.  They are Ogre/Dragon centaur guys and the sculpt seems pretty appropriate for that.  I get that aesthetics are personal and not everyone will like every concept, but I don't see what about them has not aged well.  There is nothing technically wrong with the sculpts that I can see.  They are not lacking detail for what they are and the proportions & anatomy does not seem wrong.  The GW plastic Minotaurs on the other hand have muscles that simply do not make any anatomical sense.  I would say that those have aged poorly - but to each their own.

See I love the minotaurs precisely because they're so over the top. If it's the muscles over the shins you think look weird, those do make sense, it's just because every muscle has been made so bulky they stand out more than they ever do on anything realistic. In fact I like the minotaurs so much i'm making dragon ogres out of them.

[Skabnoze]

35 minutes ago, Nightcast Eternal said:

They aren't awful, just not my favorite. I don't know, something about their poses. Also I sort of find the paint scheme GW uses for them (on th website) isn't terribly interesting. Idk... just personal taste I guess

That is fair.  I can understand when people don't care for pose issues for models that came from Warhammer Fantasy.  There were definitely pose limitations for units in that game since it played on square bases and functionally they had to rank up in base to base.  That requirement led most individual models to be more static than you see in games where models operate in a skirmish unit formation (like 40k, AoS, etc).  I personally think their poses are fine, but I can't fault anyone for that opinion and I expect if the current design team were to sculpt this unit for AoS then they would be more dynamic models.

[Skabnoze]

35 minutes ago, firebat said:

See I love the minotaurs precisely because they're so over the top. If it's the muscles over the shins you think look weird, those do make sense, it's just because every muscle has been made so bulky they stand out more than they ever do on anything realistic. In fact I like the minotaurs so much i'm making dragon ogres out of them.

To each their own and aesthetics are a personal thing as I said before.  They are definitely over the top and I can't fault someone if that is what they like about them.  For me personally, I think there are a whole lot of really good minotaur models on the market and I just don't think GW's really stack up next to a number of them (such as the ones from Mierce).  But again, that is just my personal opinion.  And since there are plenty of minotaurs of similar size on the market I feel no desire to ask GW to sculpt new ones as I would be just as happy to buy those other ones.

I can't fault anyone for liking something for being over the top.  The crazier a goblin sculpt is the more I like them.  So I get it.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Skabnoze

[RuneBrush]

+++MOD HAT+++

Bit of a nudge back onto rumours & related please folks - if you want to talk about the Dragon Ogre sculpts can you take it to another thread please.

[Shankelton]

The long wait for LVO continues.

Anyone have an exact time for the panel from now?