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I have two main thoughts about the Fyreslayers release. 

1) it is awesome that GW is updating non chaos, non Stormcast battletomes. That is a really good sign for the future. 

2) this release, along with Skaven and FEC, shows that although NuGW is clearly in full control sometimes the old bad GW still makes the decisions. It’s about the models. End of story.  People like options in models. It would solve all the problems if GW would just say “hey we know you want new models and we are planning on it but we just don’t have the production” or whatever. Communicate it.  Otherwise we really are looking at the TK and bretonnians all over again. Factions need support or they don’t sell. 

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4 hours ago, novakai said:

yeah sadly, when I post the Battletome news it only grew about a quarter of a page, not exactly what I call hype

My army was 1200 points of dispossesed 160 ironweld and then 640 fyreslayers.

I dont want build 90 vulkites because it is a pain to glue the thowing axes and keys( i builded 20 and was a pain) and i was waiting for a new release with as 2 new units or more. So i could build a full fyreslayer army.

Now after see this joke i wont buy anithing of this release and gonna continue having fyreslayers as my ally and nothing more.

I guess gw can release 12 new kits for 40k khaos,9999999 new kits for stormcast or more daemons(if we join every daemon faction daemons have the bigger number of units of aos)but release a new kit for a 3 years old army that have two!!! Boxes of units is too much.

 

And btw skavens and fec were fantasy models that got a batletome for aos.so it is logical that they dont get new units(but even then they got a new hero) but fyreslayers are a 100% new aos army and it is a joke that they only have heroes boxes and two units

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57 minutes ago, Austin said:

I have two main thoughts about the Fyreslayers release. 

1) it is awesome that GW is updating non chaos, non Stormcast battletomes. That is a really good sign for the future. 

2) this release, along with Skaven and FEC, shows that although NuGW is clearly in full control sometimes the old bad GW still makes the decisions. It’s about the models. End of story.  People like options in models. It would solve all the problems if GW would just say “hey we know you want new models and we are planning on it but we just don’t have the production” or whatever. Communicate it.  Otherwise we really are looking at the TK and bretonnians all over again. Factions need support or they don’t sell. 

The Fyreslayer, FEC and Skaven situations are all slightly different, though.

(a) FEC are a fringe faction, which is even on the periphery of their own Grand Alliance and is formed from a small part of a single WHFB army. While the continued lack of specific courtier models and not replacing the crappy Vargulf sculpt is a shame, FEC players are probably happy to just get a book. See also: Beasts of Chaos.

(b) Skaven represent the entirety of a complete WHFB army, and are an iconic GW concept. However, their range is an absolute mess, and needs revolution rather than evolution. Clearly, GW didn't feel now was the right time for such a huge undertaking, and released a book to keep players with existing Skaven collections happy until GW can pump huge resources into turning the Skaven model range around (Year of the Rat?). I don't think the book is aimed at encouraging people to start new Skaven armies from scratch. Seraphon will likely follow the same path for the time being.

(c) Fyreslayers are a wholly new range, but one that, by most available evidence, was not a good seller. I think they have gas in the engine if they expanded the range to lean more into the "Fyre" gimmick (e.g. plastic Kdaai Fireborn), but maybe GW feel this is Throwing Good Money After Bad.

Edited by Kyriakin
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3 hours ago, Mutton said:

right now we're in the "Elevator Arc." Gotta get everyone on the same level before we start doing anything truly crazy with them.

 

Yeah. Time and resources are not infinite. I think GW is doing the best thing right now for the health of the game, which is giving everyone updated rules.

If you're really sore about the lack of Fyreslayer models then maybe start a second army or something for the time being.

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3 hours ago, EddieWouldGo said:

So much for the "year for destruction" i guess.

lol, remember "Orktober" for 40k and how it turned out to be a spin off game and a few vehicles that, as I understand it, aren't even very good on the tabletop.

To be fair though the Gloomspite Gitz release for AoS was pretty phenomenal. But I can see why Ogor and Orruk players would be feeling left out so far.

Edited by 123lac
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1 hour ago, Austin said:

Otherwise we really are looking at the TK and bretonnians all over again. Factions need support or they don’t sell. 

TK had fantastic model support. A great range of new kits, and even a piece of FW scenery.

They were done by one of the worst rules sets ever written by GW. Yes, people love the models. It's why they bought many initially. Then word got out that the rules were utter trash, and new players opted to start with better armies despite the models - thus a quick death.

Sometimes, rules can kill. That's why I think GW appears to be in a rush to update older AoS books even without much in terms of models. It keeps their rules interesting until they can get a proper redo.

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12 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

TK had fantastic model support. A great range of new kits, and even a piece of FW scenery.

They were done by one of the worst rules sets ever written by GW. Yes, people love the models. It's why they bought many initially. Then word got out that the rules were utter trash, and new players opted to start with better armies despite the models - thus a quick death.

Sometimes, rules can kill. That's why I think GW appears to be in a rush to update older AoS books even without much in terms of models. It keeps their rules interesting until they can get a proper redo.

I will say even when Fyreslayer had good rules people still didn't gravitate to them as much either

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6 hours ago, Mutton said:

I think it was silly for people to expect whole new units for the Fyreslayers update.
 

Nobody wants new Stormcasts yet they get new chamber opened every year! 

To be honest I didn't expect FEC to be updated at all and GW kinda impressed me with hero, spells and terrain. It was my fault to consider them pre-AoS temporary faction soon to be forgotten. Wonder if they will update Bonesplitterz as well. 

With BoC and now Fyreslayers GW messed it up. It would have taken them really little effort to bring some new life into those lines just by introducing 1-2 new non-hero units.

Is there a single person that was on the fence with Fyreslayers and after latest announcements wants to start a 2k points army with them? I was and spells, book, scenery don't change a thing for me. I still don't want to glue and paint 90 naked clones to be competetive. It sounds like a torture and I'm mostly a painter rather than gamer with AoS. 

Edited by Aryann
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19 minutes ago, Still-young said:

When did they call it ‘year of destruction’?

They never did. In a seminar last year they said we would see cool new stuff for destruction in 2019. Presumably they meant the gloomspite. 

If we assume the lvo info about new battletomes for each grand alliance meant in 2019, then that promise is already fulfilled with the fyreslayers announcement.  If we assume it means post Lvo, then we have another destruction battletome and interestingly another death battletome this year.

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22 minutes ago, Chikout said:

They never did. In a seminar last year they said we would see cool new stuff for destruction in 2019. Presumably they meant the gloomspite. 

If we assume the lvo info about new battletomes for each grand alliance meant in 2019, then that promise is already fulfilled with the fyreslayers announcement.  If we assume it means post Lvo, then we have another destruction battletome and interestingly another death battletome this year.

Yeah, that’s what I suspected. It’s like when the community a year or so ago decided it was ‘year of the xenos’ and then got annoyed at GW who had never made such a claim. 

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4 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Yeah, that’s what I suspected. It’s like when the community a year or so ago decided it was ‘year of the xenos’ and then got annoyed at GW who had never made such a claim. 

still going to be angry about it! The nerd rage is high on the hype train here ;) 

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2 hours ago, Mutton said:

It's only March. There's more time for the year to happen.

So much this!!!  We're only just a quarter of the way through the year and the amount of AoS releases we've had is already huge - let's not write this year off as being rubbish folks 😄

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I'm pretty sure there are still  some battletomes planned for this year. Ironjawz from Destruction is a sure thing as they are as old as Fyreslayers. Sylvaneth due to vs Gloomspite box. Seraphon probably and maybe Kharadron Overlords with Tzeentch. And also it's high time for Darkoath to emerge. 

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3 hours ago, Aryann said:

Nobody wants new Stormcasts yet they get new chamber opened every year! 

To be honest I didn't expect FEC to be updated at all and GW kinda impressed me with hero, spells and terrain. It was my fault to consider them pre-AoS temporary faction soon to be forgotten. Wonder if they will update Bonesplitterz as well. 

With BoC and now Fyreslayers GW messed it up. It would have taken them really little effort to bring some new life into those lines just by introducing 1-2 new non-hero units.

Is there a single person that was on the fence with Fyreslayers and after latest announcements wants to start a 2k points army with them? I was and spells, book, scenery don't change a thing for me. I still don't want to glue and paint 90 naked clones to be competetive. It sounds like a torture and I'm mostly a painter rather than gamer with AoS. 

Plenty people want new Stormcast. They wouldn’t sell and GW wouldn’t make them otherwise.

That doesn’t mean from your wider point re Fyreslayers is wrong but you weaken your argument by referencing an erroneous point.

The real issue with Fyreslayers is the price point I think. Just don’t get enough bang for your buck. There’s already plenty arguments against collecting them but the fact they’re so expensive hardly helps.

Edited by Nos
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6 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

The Fyreslayer, FEC and Skaven situations are all slightly different, though.

(a) FEC are a fringe faction, which is even on the periphery of their own Grand Alliance and is formed from a small part of a single WHFB army. While the continued lack of specific courtier models and not replacing the crappy Vargulf sculpt is a shame, FEC players are probably happy to just get a book. See also: Beasts of Chaos.

(b) Skaven represent the entirety of a complete WHFB army, and are an iconic GW concept. However, their range is an absolute mess, and needs revolution rather than evolution. Clearly, GW didn't feel now was the right time for such a huge undertaking, and released a book to keep players with existing Skaven collections happy until GW can pump huge resources into turning the Skaven model range around (Year of the Rat?). I don't think the book is aimed at encouraging people to start new Skaven armies from scratch. Seraphon will likely follow the same path for the time being.

(c) Fyreslayers are a wholly new range, but one that, by most available evidence, was not a good seller. I think they have gas in the engine if they expanded the range to lean more into the "Fyre" gimmick (e.g. plastic Kdaai Fireborn), but maybe GW feel this is Throwing Good Money After Bad.

The good money after bad thing is exactly my point.  GW creates that situation.  If the army isn't selling, it is either rules or models.  In the case of Fyreslayers its possible I suppose it was both, but don't you think that a horde army with only two/three variations that you need 90 of and costs a ton might have selling problems?

I guess the overall point I am making about old bad GW is that they are clearly still terrified about the Chapterhouse court case and refuse to create new units in battletomes without models.  This is really the problem especially when they (allegedly) have production issues, so they are likely trying to do fans a favor with these interim battletomes (and make money).  What GW is missing though is that not creating new units isn't stopping third parties from doing resculpts or from creating their own units.

If GW said, hey- in four/five/seven months we are releasing a Seraphon battletome and along with that there will be X models.  Ok awesome.  Guess what I won't be doing, buying the not Seraphon alternatives because I know GW will make amazing models.  The people who do buy those alts early, would have done it anyway.  But because  some part of GW is still so secretive about releases, they are totally missing the opportunity to allow customers to show loyalty to the brand (and most of us are rather loyal/devoted/obsessed).

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5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

TK had fantastic model support. A great range of new kits, and even a piece of FW scenery.

They were done by one of the worst rules sets ever written by GW. Yes, people love the models. It's why they bought many initially. Then word got out that the rules were utter trash, and new players opted to start with better armies despite the models - thus a quick death.

Sometimes, rules can kill. That's why I think GW appears to be in a rush to update older AoS books even without much in terms of models. It keeps their rules interesting until they can get a proper redo.

Rules definitely kill. Not necessarily the strength, but the feel (although both certainly help). Having a distinct rules identity that actively manifests in the gameplay makes the game and the army better. Skaven play EXACTLY as they are described in the lore. Daughters too. Problems arise with one-dimensional army lists that force you to play in an odd way. Stormcast in AOS1 are a great example of this - Vanguard Wing was the only way to play competitively but was a dumb exploit.

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7 minutes ago, Nos said:

Plenty people want new Stormcast. They wouldn’t sell and GW wouldn’t make them otherwise.

I am just referring to community feedback and exaggerate intentionally.

It's a viciouc circle with Stormcasts. They sel well because they have great, constant support with models and books and they receive new models because they sell well. I am absolutely sure that the same case would be with pretty any other army if it received same support, name it Ironajwz or Idoneth. If they got original and cool new minis every year they would have been as popular as Stormcasts.

When they leave Fyreslayers unsopported with minis they will be unsupported by clients' purchases.  The message I received from GW about Fyreslayers from Adepticon: No new minis until maybe AoS v.3.0. Maybe never if they remain unpopular.

13 minutes ago, Nos said:

The real issue with Fyreslayers is the price point I think. Just don’t get enough bang for your buck. There’s already plenty arguments against collecting them but the fact they’re so expensive hardly helps.

I'm not really convinced with the price argument. We all know how costly this hobby is. Whenever I start a new army I am aware it will take 1100-1300 PLN for me to gather 2k army. It makes really no difference for me to spend additional 200-300 PLN for a more expensive Fyreslayer models to reach 2k points. I spend like 2500-3000 PLN a year on AoS so 5-15% more spendings is not the case. As for me it's the monotony of Fyreslayers and the neccesity to paint multiple multiple *same* models. It's just boring.

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21 minutes ago, Aryann said:

The message I received from GW about Fyreslayers from Adepticon: No new minis until maybe AoS v.3.0

I would always take anything like this with a large pinch of salt, I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or been told "no idea" for it to appear within the next year.  GW staff are super careful about admitting anything coming out before it's been released.

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