The Rumour Thread

[Tiger]

1 minute ago, GeneralZero said:

The problem of ID is "blind elves on flying fishs" (caricature here). It is really too far from the collective unthinking. It is why heroic fatasy is always in a medieval world (exception maybe Harry potter).

Can you elaborate further, I'm intrigued by your hypothesis. 

[prochuvi]

Hnnn i have bougth full new from gw in this last year 1400 points of dispossesed and 600 of fyreslayers. So i hope they are working on my dwarfs! Also i would like more models for fyreslayers,i have them as ally because one unit of vulkites and one magmadroth give me all the aestetical rangue allready

[JPjr]

hmmm, ok assuming any of this has any basis in reality... completely unsubstantiated idea here but IDK, good models (especially the big ones), interesting lore behind them and certain lists seem popular with competitive players but... (without wanting to ignite another endless argument between player types) they're a tricky one if you're really, really into narrative games and campaigns.

not impossible of course but give me 5 minutes and I can come up with an interesting scenario for why any (well nearly any) two armies might be fighting, give me 10 and I'll have at least the bare bones skeleton of a campaign (not saying it'll be good!).

But IDK along with Scourge Privateersare a bit of an odd one to fit in, sure you can make it work somehow but unless you've gone all out to create some specific beach line, seashore (or similar) game boards to play on they feel a little out of place.

Of course if you had the time to create that (and some actual rules for them emerging from the sea for example) it could be great but it's certainly not an obvious addition if that's how your brain thinks.  

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by JPjr

[Aeryenn]

All of a sudden everyone is a specialist why Idoneth are rumoured to sell poor. I'm pretty sure that if the rumour told Idoneth Deepkin sell well, the very same persons would find arguments to justify it as well. 

Personally I don't believe in that particular rumour seeing how live is Idoneth topic on tga, how much I see them being played on YouTube and how often I see them in top 10 at various tournaments. 

[Kirjava13]

I think there's something to be said for the idea that people find it easier to get onboard with something they can find a way to anchor themselves in somehow. That's why a lot of people were clamouring for more of an idea about how life in the Mortal Realms functions, how people live, etc- it makes it easier to live the fantasy, and that's what we're playing, at the end of the day: a way to live a fantasy. One knows where one is with the Old World. In Vermintide, you're dropped into Ubersreik and the automatic response is, ok, early modern stylings, plus some good rat bois. A grounding in something familiar makes it easier to accept the weird fantasy aspects of the world.

All that said, I have plenty of eels. 

So, so many eels.

[Gecktron]

9 minutes ago, Aryann said:

All of a sudden everyone is a specialist why Idoneth are rumoured to sell poor. I'm pretty sure that if the rumour told Idoneth Deepkin sell well, the very same persons would find arguments to justify it as well. 

Personally I don't believe in that particular rumour seeing how live is Idoneth topic on tga, how much I see them being played on YouTube and how often I see them in top 10 at various tournaments. 

It could also be that GWs expectations were just very high. I got the idea during release that GW thought of the Idoneth as a huge hit on a similar scale to other big sellers like Tzeentch or Khorne or the Kharadrons. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Gecktron

[Memnoch]

It's impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions from vague statements like those.

For all we know IDK selling below expectations could be outselling Dispossessed selling above expectations by a massive margin.

It should be safe to assume the expectations are not the same for those two factions.

[Kurrilino]

What makes everyone thinking IDK selling poorly ?

[Melcavuk]

11 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

What makes everyone thinking IDK selling poorly ?

Some guy said so in a throw away comment on a thread buried in a different forum.

 

on the rumour front the fact he said Dispossessed were being worked on might correlate with the rumours/wishlisting of Golems as we know the models are designed (started) up to a year before the rules writers get started on the project.

[HollowHills]

12 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

What makes everyone thinking IDK selling poorly ?

This is all based on a guy on 4chan claiming to be an Italian contractor who worked on GW finances. 

Tbh we have no idea. 

That said given GW broke records with regard to profits in 2018 I doubt Idoneth were a flop. 

[Overread]

Also its not poorly so much as "not as well as forecast" which can be very different things. 

Might be GW just over-estimated and that sales are in-line with other ranges; might be they overproduced might be that they just need to get a getting started box and more lore out there etc..... All sorts of things oculd be coming into play. 

[Nos]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

I'm not surprised at all that ID didn't sale as expected. I kinda predicted it when it was out. This is for the very same reason that Mortal Engines did a mega flop at the end of last year.

The problem of ID is "blind elves on flying fishs" (caricature here). It is really too far from the collective unthinking. It is why heroic fatasy is always in a medieval world (exception maybe Harry potter).

The sculpts and the army look great but hey, flying shark 'n turtles?

 

Think there’s a lot in this. People know where they’re at with archetypes. Especially in a hobby which requires a steep financial investment, something original or novel often equates to being intimidating.

Warhammer doubled down on this because even their fantasy was an archetype of something else-Holy Roman Empire circa 17th Century  for Empire , Medieval France for Bretonnia, Egypt for Tomb Kings, Vikings for Dwarves and so on. They weren’t just those things but they were heavily inspired by them. 

Idoneth have their own archetypes as well but they’re much more niche culturally speaking. They’re sort of some stuff but they’re also not. They’re not Cthulhu Elves. They’re not Atlanteans. They’re not Sea Elves. They’re not a classical maritime civilization. They’re not Dark Eldar. They’re a mix of all the above and more without ever being any of them specifically.

You like them for what they are or you probably don’t like them at all, as there’s nothing else for them to be to you, nothing to hang onto or find a way in.  If you like them because elves, there’s only about 4 models who are actually elves. If you like the Thrall concept you only get 2 units of them , no heroes,  rest are Aelves. And so on. 

I love them because their essence is very strong and defined, but people will dislike them for the same reason. I would like for them to get more options but I think ala KO they will be left as a curate’s egg.  For all that AOS is going somewhere new, I think the Idoneth are maybe too much at the deep end (lol) just now. An example of designers feeling too uninhibited by tradition.

Me, I love that direction, but fantasy is, ironically, not a genre which welcomes too much of a departure from classic archetypes, more often than not. If you look for example at the reception of the Gloomspite Gitz, the consensus is that they “got” Night Goblins, and then some. A Better version of what we know, that seems to be the key.  Sacrosanct Chamber fit that same description. They are recognisably what they are, with the addition of strongly communicated wizard goodness. Stop and think about it and most of AOS most popular IP fits the same description. A better version of what we already know. Whereas Deep Kin are just way over there somewhere. They’re definitely the least orthodox in their trad fantasy aspects.

Just to add, I’m not saying for a second I believe there’s anything in that 4Chan thing at all. I’m not saying IDK sold poorly because X. I’m not even saying they sold poorly. It’s just my opinion on the issues surrounding GW selling a very novel IP, and what I would assume the pitfalls around that might be.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Nos

[robinlvalentine]

I really hope there isn't any truth to the idea that people are put off by factions that are too 'weird' - the thing I really like about AOS is how different it is. So much stuff in the fantasy genre is so rote and stale, in miniatures, TV shows, films, videogames, comics...whatever. AOS' flying fish are a breath of fresh air. 

[Skreech Verminking]

12 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

I really hope there isn't any truth to the idea that people are put off by factions that are too 'weird' - the thing I really like about AOS is how different it is. So much stuff in the fantasy genre is so rote and stale, in miniatures, TV shows, films, videogames, comics...whatever. AOS' flying fish are a breath of fresh air. 

Well for one person the ID might look weird, and doesn’t want to collect it.

Another guy may see it as one of the most interesting and best looking armie that has a great fluff, and wants to start the game with them immediately.

It’s something that always differs from player to player.

Its also what makes us human and gives our armies flavor.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[TheWilddog]

 

6 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

I really hope there isn't any truth to the idea that people are put off by factions that are too 'weird' - the thing I really like about AOS is how different it is. So much stuff in the fantasy genre is so rote and stale, in miniatures, TV shows, films, videogames, comics...whatever. AOS' flying fish are a breath of fresh air. 

This is my sentiment exactly.  I love the move away from a historical/Toliken based IP.  The the boardgame and tabletop market is swimming with generic fantasy products. I know in the boardgame market many of the most successful games of the past few years have been those that have pushed more original non-generic fantasy IPs, like Gloomhaven for example.  I think there is a big thirst for new IP in the wider market.  I think AOS is in a good place to tap into this trend.    

[RexHavoc]

4 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

I really hope there isn't any truth to the idea that people are put off by factions that are too 'weird' - the thing I really like about AOS is how different it is. So much stuff in the fantasy genre is so rote and stale, in miniatures, TV shows, films, videogames, comics...whatever. AOS' flying fish are a breath of fresh air. 

I like weird more than most but I do dislike most of the deepkin range. I just dislike the whole 'takes the water every where they go' aesthetic they have. It just feels goofy. I wouldn't have minded the sea theme but I'd imagine them like the crew of Davey Jones ship (from Pirates of the Caribbean) and how they leave wet footprints, seem wet but are not floating about or swimming. I servilely dislike the water cloak, but that's becasue I find it over done, not the idea of a water spell itself. 

Some lovely models in the range as well but as a skirmish only player, very few models fit in with my own narrative and many of them would look out of place fighting in the terrain I have (wizards tower/grounds, nighthaunt ruins, freeguild city and soon grot caves) even though the malign portents story where high elves find the town plundered by the deepkin was super cool and a great bit of horror.  But brightly coloured swimming eels and turtles would look odd in my gloomy set up.

I'm likely to pick up a start collecting when it arrives, as I can plunder parts for other projects and I would like to paint up at least one of those eels.

[chord]

7 minutes ago, RexHavoc said:

I like weird more than most but I do dislike most of the deepkin range. I just dislike the whole 'takes the water every where they go' aesthetic they have. 

I agree that turned me off from them as well.  Really dislike how it translated into gameplay as well

[Thiagoma]

10 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

 

This is my sentiment exactly.  I love the move away from a historical/Toliken based IP.  The the boardgame and tabletop market is swimming with generic fantasy products. I know in the boardgame market many of the most successful games of the past few years have been those that have pushed more original non-generic fantasy IPs, like Gloomhaven for example.  I think there is a big thirst for new IP in the wider market.  I think AOS is in a good place to tap into this trend.    

I think there is room for both, Gloospite is a good example of a traditional army redone. I for one love the Elven aestethics, and even tho i have a lot of models you can bet i will buy new ones, or even modern version os units i like.

[stato]

2 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

I think there is room for both, Gloospite is a good example of a traditional army redone. I for one love the Elven aestethics, and even tho i have a lot of models you can bet i will buy new ones, or even modern version os units i like.

I think this is definitely the case.  They need models/ranges to drive interest as well as 'sell' and thats why they develop Stormcast so much, other ranges draw on popular themes like Goblins or Ghosts, a fish theme army might not sell a lot directly but being so different can draw in other buyers and maybe not compete for existing fans cash which will be spent on GW stuff anyway.

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, eciu said:

So it is now ok to say some people find them funny while some find them amazing ?

I don’t understand this comment at all.  Was it ever not ok to say that some people like some things and dislike others?

[stato]

1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

I don’t understand this comment at all.  Was it ever not ok to say that some people like some things and dislike others?

Ignore it, he is just getting worked up about being told to play nice and not be rude by the moderators.

[JPjr]

damn, it's for 40k but this is a stunning new model, you could do a great pirate conversion with her. Seeing models like this and the recent Rogue Trader and BSF ones definitely makes me want them to come out with something new for free people (or a similar new faction) as they could absolutely nail it..

Edited January 23, 2019 by JPjr

[Skabnoze]

Stupid phone double post

Edited January 23, 2019 by Skabnoze

[eciu]

7 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I don’t understand this comment at all.  Was it ever not ok to say that some people like some things and dislike others?

The whole point it's fine. 

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, bsharitt said:

It seems like GW hit a weird design spot with the Idoneth Deepkin. The most common sentiment I hear about them is along the lines of "they look cool, but I don't personally want an army of them". While they're technically elves, they're not 'elfy' enough so people with emotional attachment to elves don't seem immediately drawn to them. It's like GW overshot the mark on uniqueness with them, where as Kharadon Overlords still have a enough 'dwarfiness' to them that Dwarf fans were immediately drawn in. Or at least that's my general observation on my admittedly small sample size of players.

My issue was the opposite - not fishy enough!