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@123lac I would rather see the existing sculpts and models remain viable and than in time see GW release new updated sculpts. I think scrapping them would be a wrong move. Also look at Daughters of Khaine - three kits from the original game expanded with a few new units and suddenly their whole flavour and appearance changes a lot. 

I'd rather see than than GW scrapping whole armies and races once more.

 

That said considering we've seen many of these minor factions appear in the BL fiction recently I don't think they are in any danger of going anywhere. I think GW realises that whilst they blew up the old world they basically have to keep a lot of it around. BEtter to steadily upgrade and replace models than strip them out. Heck it wouldn't surprise me if we saw Brets and Tomb Kings return! Whilst Tomb Kings would need a few new basic troops, much of their line was newer and would ideally fit AoS themes; whilst Brets I think would need new sculpts (and just imagine the awesome cavalry GW could do now - not static standing horses but charging beasts with those long mails of armour and cloth flowing in the wind! 

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32 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I heard, though I cannot remember where from, that the Khorne dragon was meant to be part of an End Times series. We had the big Nurgle dragon monster by FW, and the Khorne Dragon, but I think there was meant to be a Tzeentch and Slaanesh one too. I doubt we'll see them, but I would love for this rumour to be true and for the models to actually be released.  

Would you buy the Slaanesh one if they did it?

If they ever put an Orc onto the back of something similarly redonkulous, I'll be onto it like a shot!

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4 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Would you buy the Slaanesh one if they did it?

If they ever put an Orc onto the back of something similarly redonkulous, I'll be onto it like a shot!

Almost definitely! I'd love to see what they would do with it - some sort of 6 headed biblical serpent would be awesome.  

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2 hours ago, Overread said:

That said considering we've seen many of these minor factions appear in the BL fiction recently I don't think they are in any danger of going anywhere. I think GW realises that whilst they blew up the old world they basically have to keep a lot of it around. BEtter to steadily upgrade and replace models than strip them out. Heck it wouldn't surprise me if we saw Brets and Tomb Kings return! Whilst Tomb Kings would need a few new basic troops, much of their line was newer and would ideally fit AoS themes; whilst Brets I think would need new sculpts (and just imagine the awesome cavalry GW could do now - not static standing horses but charging beasts with those long mails of armour and cloth flowing in the wind! 

So how do the High Elves fit in to the lore of the mortal realms when there's meant to be Light Elves in Hysh? I assume the Light Elves are a totally separate army but I could be wrong.

Are we just going to end up with way too many 'Aelf' factions? Idoneth, DoK, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Shadow Elves, Light Elves etc.

I find it confusing.

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3 hours ago, 123lac said:

Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd rather see GW scrap the old high elves and dark elves so they can properly re-imagine them in the themes of Hysh and Ulgu.

Old model lines have to die at some point, right?

Kinda unpopular because no one should have their army squatted. My High Elves are all bought after AoS (Spire of Dawn as starter) and i now have the whole collection plus some vintage High Elves modelos no longer use.  I am fine, and i welcome the new Aelven units GW will eventually bring to the table, but i still want to have a viable way to use my miniatures that i bought in the last few years and are still beeing produced/sold to this day.

Even if you try to field High Elfs as Order, you are Stuck with Reavers as Battlelines.  Reavers are only aquired in Spire of Dawn, that is no longer avaiable.  So what i would like is for GW to release a book like legions of Nagash where you can combine at least pairs of old school sub factions, like they did on the Spire of Dawn box with the battlallion that combined Eldritch Council and Swifthawk Agents.

16 minutes ago, 123lac said:

So how do the High Elves fit in to the lore of the mortal realms when there's meant to be Light Elves in Hysh? I assume the Light Elves are a totally separate army but I could be wrong.

Are we just going to end up with way too many 'Aelf' factions? Idoneth, DoK, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Shadow Elves, Light Elves etc.

I find it confusing.

It is a bit confusing, but right now there is no distinction on Aelves. They are all the same race.  Like Fyreslayers/Karadron/Dispossesed are all Duardins.

Now the new creations like the Khinerai, Melusai, Idoneths and so on are technically new beeings created from aleven souls that were trapped inside Slaneesh.

 

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3 hours ago, Enoby said:

I heard, though I cannot remember where from, that the Khorne dragon was meant to be part of an End Times series. We had the big Nurgle dragon monster by FW, and the Khorne Dragon, but I think there was meant to be a Tzeentch and Slaanesh one too. I doubt we'll see them, but I would love for this rumour to be true and for the models to actually be released.  

Hmm, I think it more likely it was a concept seen during the End Times that was planned for AoS from the get go. They showed it's early build phase off in December 2016 which puts it's origin around 2014-2015 where as AoS was already underway with development teams in 2010 under the codename project Stanley. (Like the golden paladins for Brets and Archaon on a dragon ET rumors that were AoS leaks)

That said I wouldn't be surprised at every chaos faction getting their own FW monster to terrorize the Mortal Realms with.

(Maybe one day  even you too, Necoho. You mighty/non-existent and glorious/fake diety/contrived coincidences.)

3 hours ago, Overread said:

Heck it wouldn't surprise me if we saw Brets and Tomb Kings return!

Hmm, Brets I have 0% belief for a return. Stormcast already cover the role of holy paladins that slay evil, badass mythical cavalry, can be humble people that rise up and go on quests with both Errants and Questors. The latest tome even has the ones from Hysh accustomed to have squires.

 Likelier we'll see supplementary knight orders for the Free Guild that give them knights and Cavaliers from across the realms with different mounts and deities that play into their allegiances.

Like with the knight Orders in Ghyran.

(Q&A with Josh Reynolds)

"What makes The Knights of the Furrow. The Order of the Green. The Order of the Last Flower. The Knights Ghyrlion different from each other?

-The Knights of the Furrow are demigryph riders - one actually features in The Eight Lamentations: Spear of Shadows. I imagine the Order of the Green are an order devoted to tending a grove of soul pods, and the Order of the Last Flower are devoted to taking vengeance in the name of a fallen kingdom. The Knights Ghyrlion are a crusading order, devoted to spreading the glories of the Lady of Leaves to other realms."

Returning TK are more likely as Shyish is already filled with ancient kingdoms of sentient skeleton warriors. Settra just needs to make his way out of the realm of chaos first and start a rebellion.

3 hours ago, Overread said:

 I would rather see the existing sculpts and models remain viable and than in time see GW release new updated sculpts. I think scrapping them would be a wrong move. Also look at Daughters of Khaine - three kits from the original game expanded with a few new units and suddenly their whole flavour and appearance changes a lot.  

I'd rather see than than GW scrapping whole armies and races once more. 

100% Agreed here. A natural transition is much better.

Also is the fact that the factions are so diverse in the lore that such a simple culling wouldn't work to cover all the races in the cities and realms. It'd end up crippling the lore in several ways as we lose so much.

28 minutes ago, 123lac said:

So how do the High Elves fit in to the lore of the mortal realms when there's meant to be Light Elves in Hysh? I assume the Light Elves are a totally separate army but I could be wrong.

Are we just going to end up with way too many 'Aelf' factions? Idoneth, DoK, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Shadow Elves, Light Elves etc. 

I find it confusing. 

There's "high elves" already in Hysh as well as the other realms with the life realm city of Phoenicium being a major city controlled by the Phoenix Temple and eldritch council with more loyalty towards Sigmar and Alarielle  than Tyrion and Teclis. Meanwhile there's a human city full of Hyshites that worship Tyrion over Sigmar and are noted to have many light wizards and luminarks guarding the city. 

The Mortal Realms have diversity in spades and many Aelves owe allegiance to Sigmar and Azyr thus becoming crucial parts of the Free Cities.

We need to see these light aelves anyway to judge. Them being angelic and "perfect" in Teclis' eyes doesn't mean they'll be regular aelves or anything close. (In  Pantheon Teclis appeared ethereal so the light aelves might  possibly be aelf spirits of light more than flesh and blood which puts them in Sylvaneth territory)

And likely yes, we'll end up with a mass of Aelf factions. I imagine they'll eventually be: Light, Shadow, Deepkin, Wanderer and Free City Aelves with stuff like DoK and Swiftwings as sub-factions to them.

In time I suspect this huge variety to be commonplace (and hopefully well organized with proper tomes)

Edited by Baron Klatz
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4 hours ago, 123lac said:

Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd rather see GW scrap the old high elves and dark elves so they can properly re-imagine them in the themes of Hysh and Ulgu.

Old model lines have to die at some point, right?

I agree, but they could always just leave them in with their weird little factions and just make whole new armies for Hysh and Ulgu.

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1 hour ago, skeen77 said:

I agree, but they could always just leave them in with their weird little factions and just make whole new armies for Hysh and Ulgu.

Or make a mixed battle tome of free citie  Aelves, which would bring the old esthetics, everybody loved back in the old world, back.

(who cares about fish-things impostering the glory’s of the old times, Glory which ones was representing the dark/high/wood Aelves (how dare they take it)).

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6 hours ago, 123lac said:

Probably an unpopular opinion but I'd rather see GW scrap the old high elves and dark elves so they can properly re-imagine them in the themes of Hysh and Ulgu.

Old model lines have to die at some point, right?

Not saying I disagree with the conclusion that redone elves are better than rehashed ones, but I don't agree with the premise.

 

No, older lines do not have to die.

Edited by Sleboda
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I think when it  come to Aelves in AoS they are clearly divided into groups, but they are closer to human factions in so much as they are just regular aelves born to different societies. I'd also say that there is a lot more fluidity in faction interactions and cohabiting going on in AoS than in the Old World. OId World many factions kept to themselves and whilst that is true in AoS, there are also  a lot more references to factions trading and getting along with each other and living together. An Aelf in a human city isn't that abnormal - enough to be noticed, but not enough to really stand out. 

I think the only thing that unifies the Aelves today is the visual design of their models. For example many High Aelves having those tall pointy helmets. That's the kind of thing that GW can divide further if they want with new sculpts with a greater divide on visual design. However a lot of that depends on which Aelves they unify and which they leave standing on their own.

 

There's also potential that they could link up Dark, High and Wood Aelf units into a single force, though its less likely. I'd imagine that Wood will remain their own thing. We also don't know if the new Light and Dark Aelves will be amalgomations of existing forces or totally new armies like Idoneth.

 

Honestly I think the only real worry most of us have is that GW introduces 50 factions which results in them having no time to give any meaningful number updates over the years. I guess GW's view might be that with the Grand Alliance structure players can go sideways and bring in more allies for new models so it doesn't matter if their own single faction doesn't get attention for a while. And that might well work - I'd certainly be shocked if GW could keep every faction supported to the same number and variety as Stormcast

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Best thing GW can do is to give a fluffy twist allowing to play the old minis as count as the new game. 

 

for instance, if the light elves have some kind of non-flying cavalry, people could use the dragon blades as this cavalry ("in some old cities, the knights of hysh ride a pure breed of horses and not a luminescent beast").

 

To make a parallel, they could allowing the hold imperial gryph-knight to have the same warscroll as vanguard palladors, or as fulminators.

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Easier just to keep the same names. Lions of Charace are Lions - then GW just updates the sculpt at some point in the future just the same as they've done in the past. No need to change anything or start using "counts as" rules which only make sense for old-world players who are familiar with the old armies. 

 

Not need to complicate things, esp since many of those old sculpt will be the only sculpt for a specific model for some years yet. 

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14 hours ago, Enoby said:

I heard, though I cannot remember where from, that the Khorne dragon was meant to be part of an End Times series. We had the big Nurgle dragon monster by FW, and the Khorne Dragon, but I think there was meant to be a Tzeentch and Slaanesh one too. I doubt we'll see them, but I would love for this rumour to be true and for the models to actually be released.  

not quite. The original end times imagined by rick Priestley and Alan Bligh was to be focused around the four sons of the great Kurgan, each of which devoted themselves to one god, Tamurkhan being the first story told. We're going back easily over a decade now.

By the time Tamurkhan was written the end times idea was gaining momentum at the mothership. But the time it had blossomed into the roots of a  big campaign Priestley found that the whole end times thing was taken out of his hands and given to the others to run with, namely within the main GW side of the business.

At the time Warhammer forge had also made the giant chaos dragon model- which may be where the tzeentch rumour came from.  The irony was that Warhammer forge now would make oodles of cash as stuff is allowed in AoS games unlike back then when you couldn't even play FW stuff in warhammer world.

I hope that for beastclaw raiders FW bring back the rhinox riders - that would be absolutely epic.  I've still got mine and i'd definitely start a beastclaw army if that were to happen.

FW are in a state of flux at the mo, there's lots of stuff they want to do but can't due to resources - or rather lack of them.  I don't doubt that penciled somewhere there's a wonderful tamurkhan-esque campaign book including shartor, the dragon dude, and skaarac, but this side of time, massive cash and heresy slowing down -  like you,  I can't see stuff like that happening anytime soon, especially not since Fires of Cyraxus has been pushed back several times now.

I'd like to be pleasantly surprised by FW, but reality is that they've got some serious money spinners which they know are cash cows, and would be foolish to not to milk those for all they're worth.

I am surprised however that they weren't given the 9th edition fantasy battle to own as they were 7th ed 40k ruleset for heresy.  I think that it would have made the "legends" age players happy and maybe even allowed them to look at AoS seriously once their rage quitting subsided if the system they so adored had not been torn out from underneath them.

But going back to the original post, there were no definite concrete stories telling  of the other three brothers at the time of Tamurkhan, the idea was being formulated but it then got taken on wholesale by the main GW studio vs FW studio. :)

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regarding elves - I can see many of the old lines which are still popular just being re-written into new lores, much like the old vampire counts wet undead (vs dry undead and see through undead) were re-written as flesh eater courts with new backstory and lore, witch elves became daughters of khaine etc.

The handy thing for GW is that it makes economic sense as the bulk of the army core is already there, so only a few new models will be needed to refresh the faction - a-la beastmen. :)

 

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20 hours ago, The Golem said:

Personally I hope GW won't reunify the aelves, or at least that they won't re-do them the way they were in WHFB (high elves/dark elves/wood elves). I was getting tired of the classic warhammer elves and I like the way they shook those armies and made new sub-factions out of them.

I also prefer when my dark elves are a little less dark (especially the scourge privateers): I prefer them as morally dubious characters instead of the outright psychopaths and sadistic murderers they were in the World-that-was. Therefore I really hope that the Daughters of Khaine will be the closest faction to the original druchiis and that the other "dark elf" factions (privateers, shadowblade, serpentis) will become a bit lighter (or "grayer" if you will) compared to their previous incarnations.
The same goes for the high elves: I hope they will be updated to be a little less noble and haughty than they were in WHFB with their spotless white robes.

All in all, I don't mind a unified aelf battletome, as long as GW get innovative and don't write them to be the exact same type of elves as they were before. For example, a battletome that would mix a bit of both dark elves and high elves (like Order Draconix + Order Serpentis being various knighthood orders working in the same army) would be cooler in my opinion.

PS: sorry, I went a bit off-topic.

I loved the DE aesthetic and history but the utter oxymoronic nonsense of a society of psychopaths made it hard to really dig into them to any degree

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Honestly I think one thing that holds FW back is that they don't work with the core GW team. From what i gather they work separate and because of how GW compartmentalizes information and tries to prevent leaks, the FW team isn't alway aware of what the main GW team is going to do. That's fine when all the main team does is just roll out a new codex or edition, but it can throw FW out of hte loop if GW goes and does something BIG or changes things up 

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This is speculation but I think GW's plans with the Aelves release is relating to them slowly building their old world pantheon back up but with their resurrected counterparts like Morathi trying to be the new Khaine, Mathlann being slowly remembered into reality by Deepkin,  and Teclis, Tyrion, and Allarielle being the new Hoeth, Asuryan, and Isha.

Also I think if they ever expand Sylvaneth, they may actually add Kurnoth (probably Orion new form) since they mention him a couple of time as existing in lore.

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17 hours ago, Overread said:

. I'd also say that there is a lot more fluidity in faction interactions and cohabiting going on in AoS than in the Old World. OId World many factions kept to themselves and whilst that is true in AoS, there are also  a lot more references to factions trading and getting along with each other and living together. An Aelf in a human city isn't that abnormal - enough to be noticed, but not enough to really stand out.  

 

Very much this as one of the multitude of reasons I adore AoS and the Mortal Realms.

The diversity you see is crazy.

In "Hammerhal and other stories" you get a band of a witch hunter, Ironbreaker and lion ranger hunting down cultists in the city while even noting at the skydocks how Kharadron vessels are side by side with human airships and aelven skyships.

You get things like Sylvaneth who range from loners to having aquatic (and surprisingly peaceful) versions of themselves that ally with Deepkin, ones that maintain relationships with undead as seeing them as a natural life cycle and even the Ironbark Sylvaneth with metal weapons and iron veins  that have close ties to duardin with strongholds in Aqshy and Chamon.

Them going amongst city dwellers in Ghyran cities is a very inspiring image.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOQq6Ckn_jXue38iozdvV

Then you have stuff like in the "Sea Taketh" that has Order and Destruction mingling in Shyish.

3N7G7Rf.jpg

JUDK0IC.jpg

And THEN you have religious diversity like within the Crawling City.

"The city, once freed from the Skaven, is highly cosmoplition and as well as traders, priests of many religions for all faiths are welcomed, although only one is truly honoured - Sigmar who the inhabitants call Sahg’mahr, as is evident from the many wayshrines in the streets. A visitor could expect to see Nagashites, white-robed and golden-masked Hyshites and even covens of wild-haired forest-brides singing eerie hymns in praise of the Lady of Leaves, all in the same area."

(I like the detail that Nagashites hand out pamphlets extolling the glories of Nagash :D )

And it's awesome to see the city variety used from these in people's army projects.

AoP-Oct8-Content1f.jpg

DowUpohW0AcFadf?format=jpg

I'll stop here but I could easily go on(and on and on) why I'm in love with the lore.

 

 

Edited by Baron Klatz
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While we are not allowed to share leaked images, I can say that the rules for the fiends in 40k have been changed slightly in Chapter Approved (one extra wound each and a leader model, plus a points decrease).  May mean nothing, but I reckon we can expect a change in AoS too.  

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4 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Very much this as one of the multitude of reasons I adore AoS and the Mortal Realms.

I'll stop here but I could easily go on(and on and on) why I'm in love with the lore.

 

 

Enjoyed this post.

This sort of stuff is what makes army projects that much more fun.

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