sandlemad Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/12/12th-sept-beasts-of-chaos-preview-old-beasts-new-tricksgw-homepage-post-2/ New BoC preview up. A nice background update (I think it's new ?) is that the dragon ogres/thunderscorn were some of the original inhabitants of Azyr before being driven out by Sigmar. Keeps them primordial, fits their faint air of tragedy, digs into the lightning thing . Arguably they now make sense as weird reptile/mammal hybrids like dracolines. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klamm Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 That Thunderscorn origin tweak was on my wishlist for ages. After all, they're all about the storm, so why not lean into the animosity with Sigmar? It's funny, I made a for-my-eyes-only wishlist of pretty much exactly this last month (well, with new models too). Didn't expect them to actually make most of it! What I hope is the case is that they're setting up three different faction "focuses" to keep them distinct: Brayherds are the despoilers, hating civilization above all. Warherds are the bloodthirsty, seeking slaughter to glut themselves on. Thunderscorn are the betrayed, the proud ancient natives of Azyr in exile, and seek to reconquer it. If there's one thing that's a missed opportunity, it's not having the Herdstone be a multipart kit that can better reflect one of the three aspects (a bloodied altar for Bullgors, a storm-conduit obelisk for Dragon Ogors). Oh, and I'm a little sad there was no Stardrake sized Shaggoth ancient model, but oh well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 BoC preview looks great! Said it before and saying it again, its pretty ridiculous that some sculpts aren't being updated when SE get 3-4 available sculpts for one hero... All in all looks tempting but this would become a highly converted army if I jumped on board. (Many boxes of blood bowl Gors would be bought, heh. ) Im sure many long time players are excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swooper Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Been watching the Twitch stream with one eye for a couple of hours. They did explain the summoning mechanic for the Beasts: You get one summoning point each turn. In addition, you can choose to inflict d3 mortal wounds on a unit close to the herdstone (I didn't catch the range, but presumably it's the same expanding range as the rest of the herdstone abilities?), and get a summoning point for each MW. In addition, the Allherd greatfray has a command ability that can give you more points. Then we have this preview of the costs of summoning units in the first preview: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiyuren Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Klamm said: Oh, and I'm a little sad there was no Stardrake sized Shaggoth ancient model, but oh well. I know it's not exactly what you wanted, but I've seen a conversion out there in the wild using a stardrake and ghorgon kit. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I'd personally use the Fyreslayers lizard instead for the body. I think it echos the existing thunderscorn design a little better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmaster Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Quote Dragon Ogors have some of the coolest new lore in the Beasts of Chaos battletome, having once inhabited Azyr before Sigmar purged it for Order. Down with the tyrant, death to Sigmar! That dude calls himself leader of Order and made refugees of gentle beasts! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I haven't had a chance to process all of the changes yet, but assuming the rest of the Bestigor warscroll stays the same they are going to be absolutely insane. Their defensive efficiency is solid enough (not great, but not bad either), but their offensive efficiency will nutty. The only warscroll that I can think of with better raw offensive efficiency is Witch Aelves. The summoning bit is fluffy but doesn't seem all that useful to me. It'll depend a lot on what the cheapest things cost. Given what we can see on the chart, one summoning point appears to be worth approximately 20 points. If you get one point per turn and d3 for sacrificing, then even if you are in position to sacrifice every turn you only get 3 points per turn on average, meaning you won't be summoning anything impactful until turn 3 or so, and thus you'll only get 2 turns of use out of your summoned unit (3 if you get lucky). Even in the best case scenario of sacrificing ungors, you are only "gaining" 14 points per mortal wound dealt. You should really pro-rate the value of the summoned unit too, so summoning a 200 point model on turn 3 is really only "worth" 100 points, arguably less. So all in all the summoning ability seems to be a very small edge, not something that is likely to drive top tier tournament lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: I haven't had a chance to process all of the changes yet, but assuming the rest of the Bestigor warscroll stays the same they are going to be absolutely insane. Their defensive efficiency is solid enough (not great, but not bad either), but their offensive efficiency will nutty. The only warscroll that I can think of with better raw offensive efficiency is Witch Aelves. The summoning bit is fluffy but doesn't seem all that useful to me. It'll depend a lot on what the cheapest things cost. Given what we can see on the chart, one summoning point appears to be worth approximately 20 points. If you get one point per turn and d3 for sacrificing, then even if you are in position to sacrifice every turn you only get 3 points per turn on average, meaning you won't be summoning anything impactful until turn 3 or so, and thus you'll only get 2 turns of use out of your summoned unit (3 if you get lucky). Even in the best case scenario of sacrificing ungors, you are only "gaining" 14 points per mortal wound dealt. You should really pro-rate the value of the summoned unit too, so summoning a 200 point model on turn 3 is really only "worth" 100 points, arguably less. So all in all the summoning ability seems to be a very small edge, not something that is likely to drive top tier tournament lists. Well I’m not sure how you already know how the summoning works fully, but even if it isn’t that great, the allegiance ability, the great frays, the magic lore, the new unit buff and updates as well as the totem thingie will probably be a great thing on their on. to be absolutely true with ya, i believe that the summoning isn’t that much needed, it’s great for the fluff, and I do like it (I’m not trying to say that summonimg shouldn’t be at all included) but from the first few looks at them they seem to be even great without it. so don’t be pessimistic right now, we haven’t heard all the great news yet. theres still one tomorrow and maybe the day after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swooper Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Well I’m not sure how you already know how the summoning works fully They've shown it in action on the Twitch stream today. See my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 On 9/7/2018 at 10:26 AM, Nos said: Dark Eldar models are glorious. Easily some of the best going just now. Jes Goodwin sculpts. On 9/9/2018 at 4:29 AM, Yokai said: There's a Tyrion and Teclis omnibus scheduled for release in november. Might coincide with something bigger, mayhaps? It is a good story, contains N'Kari and a fast pace. I recommend it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaepic Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Heard warhammer underworlds nightvault aka shadespire season 2 is comming soon. Between beasts of chaos and Orktober;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said: Well I’m not sure how you already know how the summoning works fully, but even if it isn’t that great, the allegiance ability, the great frays, the magic lore, the new unit buff and updates as well as the totem thingie will probably be a great thing on their on. to be absolutely true with ya, i believe that the summoning isn’t that much needed, it’s great for the fluff, and I do like it (I’m not trying to say that summonimg shouldn’t be at all included) but from the first few looks at them they seem to be even great without it. so don’t be pessimistic right now, we haven’t heard all the great news yet. theres still one tomorrow and maybe the day after. Gosh, I don't know why you'd think I'm being pessimistic -- I'm only narrowly commenting on the summoning, and that was alongside comments suggesting that Bestigors are poised to become one of the best units in the game. You're absolutely right that the other bonuses range from relatively narrow to very good. Beastmen don't need summoning to be good, I think. I suspect that they will be at the very least tier 2 if not tier 1 competitive based only on the information we have now, and that's with the summoning being mediocre at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 They will be t1 based on the twitch stream. Everyone moving 14”+run +charge. Power creep continues 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Gosh, I don't know why you'd think I'm being pessimistic -- I'm only narrowly commenting on the summoning, and that was alongside comments suggesting that Bestigors are poised to become one of the best units in the game. You're absolutely right that the other bonuses range from relatively narrow to very good. Beastmen don't need summoning to be good, I think. I suspect that they will be at the very least tier 2 if not tier 1 competitive based only on the information we have now, and that's with the summoning being mediocre at best. I have the same fear about Bestigors, especially if the whole army can still run and charge. ATM they seem absurdly good on paper if they haven‘tchanged the stats (hitting on 3s/2s, reroling 1s, 3 Attacks, super mobile, good save, battleline + herdstone) well we‘ll see Edited September 12, 2018 by JackStreicher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Ghorgons chomping heroes, yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Charles said: They will be t1 based on the twitch stream. Everyone moving 14”+run +charge. Power creep continues The movement was always there... No changes to pre Battletome, if they no get some punch besides movements, they can become good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Charles said: They will be t1 based on the twitch stream. Everyone moving 14”+run +charge. Power creep continues Beastmen are not over powered at the moment. If they get better that is not "power creep" that's just them getting better. Aaaegh forget it Edited September 12, 2018 by Carnelian Shouldn't have taken the bait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Has there ever been a faction to not get better from a Battletome? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123lac Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Carnelian said: Beastmen are not over powered at the moment. If they get better that is not "power creep" that's just them getting better. Aaaegh forget it But if they get better compared to other factions with older battletomes then it is power creep, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirbeau Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Charles said: They will be t1 based on the twitch stream. Everyone moving 14”+run +charge. Power creep continues Sorry, I really don't think the sky is falling this time. My Legion of Blood in particular are going to (on paper) murder these. I have equally good board control with skellies (2 blocks of 40 properly buffed are a match for anything in the game too), I'm fast enough to engage support units/the things I need dead before the herdstone bubble kicks in and most armies have the sort of flying threats they don't. They also have awful bravery and I can debuff that by 3 or even 4-5 pretty easily -from the stream a lot of their units were bravery 4, so good luck to them dealing with that. Not to mention their awful saves and lack of rend outside of their most elite units. Edited September 13, 2018 by Mirbeau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 +++MOD HAT+++ Just a nudge back to the straight and narrow - let's not judge Beasts of Chaos until we have the book in hand, have played a few games and then in the correct forum thread folks 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbelly Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Enoby said: Has there ever been a faction to not get better from a Battletome? Bretonnia. Dogs of War *sniff* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Enoby said: Has there ever been a faction to not get better from a Battletome? Pestilence, sniff One of the first armys who got a battletome and with it only lore. thankfully the ghb 2017 had some allegiance ability for them afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 hours ago, Mirbeau said: Sorry, I really don't think the sky is falling this time. My Legion of Blood in particular are going to (on paper) murder these. I have equally good board control with skellies (2 blocks of 40 properly buffed are a match for anything in the game too), I'm fast enough to engage support units/the things I need dead before the herdstone bubble kicks in and most armies have the sort of flying threats they don't. They also have awful bravery and I can debuff that by 3 or even 4-5 pretty easily -from the stream a lot of their units were bravery 4, so good luck to them dealing with that. Not to mention their awful saves and lack of rend outside of their most elite units. FYI heardstone makes them immune to battleshock, so bravery won’t be an issue for them. This was also confirmed on the twitch stream. Also please show where I said the Sky was falling? All I did is point out that they will be T1 based on the game I watched on the twitch stream. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.