The Rumour Thread

[Kitsumy]

why are some guys hating soup??? and even orc ones! when it was the best book i have seen in 20 years!!

1 tome for every faction inside, and another one for soup version. all that on same book.... what have to hate about it?????

 

bonesplitters being bad? who cares , they could have been as bad with a tome for themselves.

 

i only can dream about my poor idoneths getting souped sometime with doks( same pirate/ dark elves theme) or with lumineths since teclis created both. i would ***** love it. and it would better than dont see anything for 4 years and only being the punching bag on lore 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Kitsumy

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

Is that a new KO ship!? Or do my eyes deceive me?

Duardin soup has pros and cons but I do feel for those who do not wish it to happen. Lore wise I wonder how this will be resolved and if Fyreslayers will ever take centre stage in a conflict. I hope it pans out well for all parties.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/26/what-is-mhurghast-as-the-darkness-creeps-closer-we-delve-into-this-new-warhammer-horror-series/

On another topic it's been confirmed that Gothgul Hollow is the first in a four part Warhammer Horror series!! Even more excited for it now!! And @HorticulusTGA they even have a map to show where the book takes place in Shyish!! 

I've got this tickling in the back of my brain that says "Mhurghast curse has something to do with Mhorgur!!" Nicknamed the Shadowgave, apparently unkillable, and it's alluded Morghur is more of a spirit than an individual beastlord. I could see him coalescing into Ulgu. 

Though we'll have to see when the book releases, since this idea would clash heavily with a 4-book family study that Gothgul will be.

[pnkdth]

4 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

why are some guys hating soup??? snd even irc ones! when it was the best book i have seen in 20 years!!

1 tome for every faction inside, and another one for soup version. all that on same book.... what have to hate about it?????

 

bonesplitters being bad? who cares , they could have been as bad with a tome for themselves.

 

i only can dream about my poor idoneths getting souped sometime with doks( same pirate/ dark elves theme) or with lumineths since teclis created both. i would ***** love it. and it would better than dont see anything for 4 years and only being the punching bag on lore 

In short, watered down rules and compartmentalization (within each soup element) leads to a one-trick-pony army which is incompatible with the rest of the army. Create the illusion of choice yet severely limits builds and options. It is great for GW though since the players have to effectively buy a new army for each soup faction.

However, the design could be following the design philosophy of SBGL which effectively means it becomes a super-tome where all units from the duardin factions are simply put together. Then divided in focus based on choice of general and conditional battleline.

I'm hoping for the latter.

[Black_Templar_Lad]

Looks like one of the previews Thursday will be the new Eldar Avatar of Khaine. 

Bit disappointed, because it's not really a preview of new stuff. We already know new Eldar are coming. We'd be seeing Khaine through a Monday reveal anyway. 

I'm being picky, will still be amazing to see. Just wish previews were a bit more of a glimpse into the future than the next imminent release, ahwell. Here's hoping AoS isn't just IDK and FS BT's. 

[Baron Klatz]

32 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

1 tome for every faction inside, and another one for soup version. all that on same book.... what have to hate about it?????

Because that’s really doesn’t compare at all to a full tome.

Full fledged independent battletomes with new units and now both allies & coalitions means armies can expand bigger than ever.

Like a Deepkin battletome can have DoK, Lumineth and Cities of Sigmar aelves in it’s Coalitions and pull off that pirate theme you want handily while also giving the faction full support with new sea beasts, warriors, elementals and even the chance for Endless Spells.

Soup is unfortunately backburner support in comparison and those updates for it can go to other armies in the book instead of your sub-faction because you’re sharing room with others and when a update comes and goes to only give the others a bonus you just count by proxy without actually getting anything. Thus the worry.

But means must, they know the statistics far better than we and if it’s the only way to save on resources and balances to continue building more exciting and unique new Mortal Realms armies down the road then so be it.   
(but still, please please please don’t soup! I’ve been burning for a big shiny Fyreslayer release!)
 

27 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I've got this tickling in the back of my brain that says "Mhurghast curse has something to do with Mhorgur!!" Nicknamed the Shadowgave, apparently unkillable, and it's alluded Morghur is more of a spirit than an individual beastlord. I could see him coalescing into Ulgu. 

Oh that’s an interesting theory. The Beasts of Chaos tome even puts him as a god entity of pure chaos worshipped by the Gavespawn. It could be an aspect they’re dealing with as some sort of manifested avatar split off by the Necroquake.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Doko]

As dispossesed and fyreslayer player i cant be happier id we get soup with kharadrons so i can get some unit of ko and habe all the options and fun of soup.

I only hope my dispossesed dont get the same destroyed new scrolls that fyreslayers got.

Also i have some hope for 4+ new kits with new grugnir units and grombindal to lead these new united dwarfs

 

Edit:hnnn i posted a coment in facebook warhammer tv saying this of grugnir army coming with new kits and united dwarf and warhammertv answered me saying maybe....... 

Who knows its a random answer or we are getting grugnir new army?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Doko

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Kitsumy said:

why are some guys hating soup??? snd even irc ones! when it was the best book i have seen in 20 years!!

1 tome for every faction inside, and another one for soup version. all that on same book.... what have to hate about it?????

 

bonesplitters being bad? who cares , they could have been as bad with a tome for themselves.

 

i only can dream about my poor idoneths getting souped sometime with doks( same pirate/ dark elves theme) or with lumineths since teclis created both. i would ***** love it. and it would better than dont see anything for 4 years and only being the punching bag on lore 

I can't speak for other people, but I don't care about how good or bad are our rules. Just a simple FAQ in less than one month can change our favorite unit (remember that the first AoS warscroll changed in an errata/faq was our Grundstock Thunderers). Or even GHB can turn one army to a Tournament Destroyer Machine (again, remember pur One-Drop Zilfin Vortex after GW lowered our points). 

Imho, I expect a more simplified rules because we are on 3d editon, but how good or bad we are, can be changed in less than a year. But everything else, and I mean 70 pages of stories, concept arts, illustrations, new characters than only have an story of 4 lines, etc... are going to be less than 33% of the book.

Btw, what other things did Orruk warclans have in this soup'd battletome? Kruleboyz! Yes, they are amazing, but just look at Ironjawz and Bonnesplitterz. They had exactly 0 new kits (unless you subscribe warhammer+ for a year for an alternative model). That's not a good omen...

In other words, I don't want to have 6 or 10 good pages of rules that can and will change in a matter of time. I want a good battletome about my precious, awesome and sexy army.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Beliman

[Still-young]

34 minutes ago, Black_Templar_Lad said:

Looks like one of the previews Thursday will be the new Eldar Avatar of Khaine. 

Bit disappointed, because it's not really a preview of new stuff. We already know new Eldar are coming. We'd be seeing Khaine through a Monday reveal anyway. 

I'm being picky, will still be amazing to see. Just wish previews were a bit more of a glimpse into the future than the next imminent release, ahwell. Here's hoping AoS isn't just IDK and FS BT's. 

I mean Eldar were always extremely likely to feature heavily in this preview, seeing as they seem to be the next release and there’s stuff we haven’t seen for them. They don’t tend to preview much past the next release, especially not if they’ve not previewed everything for said next release. 

[madmac]

Warclans style soup just means my preferred soup element is bad individually, and also has a harder time than ever mixing in other soup elements, because my bad subfaction is entirely reliant on their subfaction rules to function and I can't even take allies without using the bland "mix army" allegiance instead. You also get to look forward to years and years of the parts of the soup you don't own and play getting all the updates, literally gaining nothing from all the awesome "support" you are getting through additions to other subfactions you can't even take as allies. It is the worst of all worlds.

Now, in theory, sure, it's possible for GW to suddenly make a good soup tome, and it's possible to still support an older subfaction with new models, etc. But there's no reason to expect that they will, it's not as if they made a soup tome because they were just so excited and invested in supporting all these former stand-alone armies.

As others have said, it also means you get a third the page count devoted to your army, whether that be lore, art, or even rules.

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah, 2.0 had some of the good soups. 3.0 feels like food trays where instead of actually “mixed” they’re just different tomes crammed in one book with their pages taken out and that don’t actually benefit eachother besides adding a Waaagh option they get forced together with.

Now hopefully they buck the trend and start making good ones but I’m honestly more hopeful they’ll just do something that’s heavy on Coalitions instead and leave a duardin soup for future editions after both factions get more fleshed out to where it won’t matter much.(the Kharadron lore cram will still suck but by then Soulbound and the Dawncrusades will probably have enough Steampunk sky empires across the realms goodness to cover it)

Edited January 26, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Kitsumy said:

why are some guys hating soup??? snd even irc ones! when it was the best book i have seen in 20 years!!

1 tome for every faction inside, and another one for soup version. all that on same book.... what have to hate about it?????

bonesplitters being bad? who cares , they could have been as bad with a tome for themselves.

i only can dream about my poor idoneths getting souped sometime with doks( same pirate/ dark elves theme) or with lumineths since teclis created both. i would ***** love it. and it would better than dont see anything for 4 years and only being the punching bag on lore 

For one, it will probably spray a god all over Kharadron, which is the only godless faction in all the Mortal Realms.

Second, the amount of new models souped factions get is negligable, some heroes and maybe an Underworlds set (and they are hardly integrated in the rules).

Third, depth of rules in Skyports or Lodges is probably significantly reduced.

[JackStreicher]

4 hours ago, Svalack said:

I'm excited about what rules it would bring, but how exactly will it work form a lore perspective? I know in broken realms they were setting up the return of grungni to unite the dwarves but that never got concluded afaik, is he not just making armour for stormcast and showed up to help save a city?

Aren't fyreslayers still just mercenary's with no responsibility other than getting ur-gold, are KO going to employ them full-time? 

SPOILER: Gotrek put a reunification in process with the help of one Kharadron faction.

[Ganigumo]

@madmac  you can be relegated to backburner support even if you are a separate army, BoC have been like that for ages, and other GW armies have been put in similar scenarios in the past, its the status quo. 40k orks were using a codex from 4th edition in 6th edition as an example.
Something else to keep in mind is their release schedule, they tend to have 3 year cycles for editions (too short imo unless the editions rules are bad). AoS currently has 24 armies (after souping warclans), which means fitting 24 battletomes into 36 months if they want them all to get a release in an edition which barely leaves space for narrative campaigns, supplements and new armies.
The way they can keep up with the battletomes without doing something drastic like going all digital is by souping armies where it makes sense.

In terms of warclans, it was souped in 2e, and was generally well received with both halves being reasonably competitive and interesting, I'd argue the 2e warclans book was a good soup book, but the 3e one dropped the ball entirely.

@zilberfrid To be fair MOST factions in the game don't get many new models. Lumineth and stormcast are the only ones to have gotten second waves and there are a bunch of armies that haven't gotten much of anything since fantasy.

Something to keep in mind about AoS's design direction is that they make small, highly focused forces, as opposed to more broad concepts like in 40k or WFB, constantly expanding the rosters of the armies generally isn't the priority and as I alluded to before this means souping armies to an extent to keep up with their release schedule.

[Ogregut]

The more I think about a combined book the more I hope you can take Fyreslayers and Kharadron in one army. 

I want airships with a massive slayer figurehead on the front ready to ram or Kharadron warriors with metal mohawks or Fyreslayers with jetpacks. 

And finally will be able to take gyrocopers! 

[madmac]

21 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

@madmac  you can be relegated to backburner support even if you are a separate army, BoC have been like that for ages, and other GW armies have been put in similar scenarios in the past, its the status quo. 40k orks were using a codex from 4th edition in 6th edition as an example.
Something else to keep in mind is their release schedule, they tend to have 3 year cycles for editions (too short imo unless the editions rules are bad). AoS currently has 24 armies (after souping warclans), which means fitting 24 battletomes into 36 months if they want them all to get a release in an edition which barely leaves space for narrative campaigns, supplements and new armies.
The way they can keep up with the battletomes without doing something drastic like going all digital is by souping armies where it makes sense.

In terms of warclans, it was souped in 2e, and was generally well received with both halves being reasonably competitive and interesting, I'd argue the 2e warclans book was a good soup book, but the 3e one dropped the ball entirely.

@zilberfrid To be fair MOST factions in the game don't get many new models. Lumineth and stormcast are the only ones to have gotten second waves and there are a bunch of armies that haven't gotten much of anything since fantasy.

Something to keep in mind about AoS's design direction is that they make small, highly focused forces, as opposed to more broad concepts like in 40k or WFB, constantly expanding the rosters of the armies generally isn't the priority and as I alluded to before this means souping armies to an extent to keep up with their release schedule.

I agree that souping armies is a fantastic way for GW to neglect multiple factions with one book, that's kind of the reason they're unpopular?

Of course, they have their release schedule, and of course not every army gets updated every edition cycle, but I don't see any realistic chance of an army ever coming back from being souped. Once a soup tome, always a soup tome.  And once you're permanently designated as the least popular segment of a broader alliance, the squat button is right there, you know?

Like, if BoC actually were souped with STD, I would honestly expect them to never get a new model again going forward. Already, they've never gotten anything out of AoS except the Herdstone and Endless spells, but just psychologically speaking, that's the exact moment I would lose all hope for the army. Now, notice I don't say the same thing about STD, because STD is just automatically assumed to be the dominant ingredient in that soup. They'll be fiiiiiine, and that I think is the important difference. It's easy to be blase about getting souped when you're not playing the underdog in that book. The perspective from underneath is much bleaker, IMO.

[Clan's Cynic]

All this said, I am going to laugh if the Kharadron airship is just on there because it's a parcel delivered by them and has absolutely nothing to do with the reveals. 

 

[KingBrodd]

11 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

All this said, I am going to laugh if the Kharadron airship is just on there because it's a parcel delivered by them and has absolutely nothing to do with the reveals. 

 

I'm starting to think the same honestly. We'll get all hot and bothered and then in a couple of days theyll reveal the Fyreslayer Tome.

[CommissarRotke]

15 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

All this said, I am going to laugh if the Kharadron airship is just on there because it's a parcel delivered by them and has absolutely nothing to do with the reveals. 

 

They've done a KO christmas ship the past couple Christmases haven't they? 

[CDM]

All this talk of to soup or not to soup is making me hungry 😋

Seriously I was against soup as for me it leaves some factions even less chance of having a model expansion.

Saying that though what I dislike more is the idea of battletomes fullstop. It takes too long in a cycle of the edition to get all armies updated. Just soup everything in a grand alliance book and be done with it. They can keep the quality of battletomes for each faction in its own space in the GA book and have an allied matrix within it. Jobs a good un, all armies updated at the start of an edition with more space for model releases in the future and faq and points adjustments done when needed.

New factions can be introduced still and new models for existing factions would have rules on their box. This slow edition burn puts me off jumping in again. I could choose a new army and not see it updated for 5 years and get one new model. No ta!

[Kronos]

Regarding Dwarf Soup. I yearn for those days. It’s something I loved about warhammer, It was various factions of race/country/civilisation mustered for war. Gyrocopters, Flying over ranks for Clan Warriors and elite groups of Berserk Slayers. oooooh.
 

Now what they really need is a God, or Goddess…or Both. 

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Kronos said:

Now what they really need is a God, or Goddess…or Both. 

Kharadron do not.

[Tomplex]

I thought I liked soup tomes based off of the previous warclans book which let you play either orruk faction which you could season to taste with allies from the other, or big waaagh which combined with good command traits and battalions let you enjoy a lot of the benefits of both forces across your whole army with a few significant but not overly punishing sacrifices. 

 

The new warclans book has almost no interplay among the 3 factions, with conditional battleline exclusively tied to subfactions. You can't ally or coalition other orruks at all which feels weird and bad. And the big waaagh makes you sacrifice too many allegiance and subfaction abilities in exchange for a chart with buffs that might take effect 2 turns after you're tabled.

 

The new warclans book is less of a soup and more of a 3 course meal where you have to choose one course to eat and throw out the other two, or you can throw it all on the ground and eat off the floor with big waaagh. 

 

That's my worry with future soup tomes. If the dwarfs get souped I hope it's more like the previous warclans book or cities of sigmar than the new warclans book. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Tomplex

[Lowki]

Maybe someone already mentioned this before (have a backlog reading the thread), but anticipating on at least  a reveal of the BT for FS and IDK....I am wondering, with the BT not being released alongside the  "Fury of the Deep" box, could this meann that one or both of the armies in the box will see a more considerable model release, like what happened with Slaanesh after "Wrath and Rapture"?

Not saying it will happen, but guess at least the chance increased. Another reason could be ofcourse that they will be souped?

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Lowki

[Greasygeek]

What if the Ironclad shadow just means that Fyreslayers in their new tome might be able to add in a few units of Kharadron? Similar to the Stormcast Eternal, stormkeepers. 
🤔

[Rachmani]

I don't think we can tell how soup's gonna be, by looking at the warclans book. 
Maggotkin just got a measly hero and what's rumored about Deepkin doesn't make it seem like they'd be getting a lot either. So Fyreslayer soup instead of Fyreslayer solo without new stuff ends up being the same.

The real discussion, I think, isn't about soup, it's about meaningless updates vs. big updates. That just somehow get's watered down to a soup argument, as if the soup would come and steal our goodies & preventing the soup would somehow summon an expansive update.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Rachmani