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@Arkiham
AoS armies are 1/3 the size and the special rules for each army are typically straightforward (and no stratagems). There are already armies for these races so they are simply getting updated, meaning what we already know about these armies are simply changing. The scrolls are all free so its not hard to take a peek and see all the things that are going on when an army gets updated. As far as the core rules, at least 1/4 of the pages are useless to most players, they could simply clean it up. Adding a note about B2B measurement and making a shooting rule like "units engaged in the shooting phase may only target units within 3" of them" would add more strategy to the game without making things overly complex.

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18 hours ago, Thostos said:

40k has Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines..could AoS be heading in a similar direction,,possibly with Death instead of Chaos?

Dear gawd please no.

A real strength of AoS has been it's creative spins on things.  Copying the 40k path would be lame.

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26 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Dear gawd please no.

A real strength of AoS has been it's creative spins on things.  Copying the 40k path would be lame.

Deathcast Eternals... on the one hand I'd really prefer something more original. On the other hand something aesthetically in that mould would be a good way to update Tomb Kings for the more pulpy over the top aesthetic of Age of Sigmar.

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2 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

For 40k, things are much different. To start, armies have about 3 times the units on average than AoS armies, so there is a lot more variety and things to understand. Next, you need to understand the special rules of all the armies. With 2+ books coming out a month this is insane to keep up with. Then there are the stratagems. Hundreds and hundreds of stratagems you have to read, understand, and be aware of how your enemy is going to use them to stop you from doing what you want to do, pull off their own combos and sucker punch you.

Add on top of all this complexity the fact that 40k players are about 3x more likely to show up for a game with zero painted models. So you take your beautiful models you spent eons painting,  and get blown out hard by some silly netlist of gray plastic models. AoS players tend to take more pride in their painting. Sure there are gray models abound but often there is at least a few fully painted units and monsters, compared to completely barren gray plastic i see with most 40k armies. Maybe this culture is changing with the new simplified ruleset appealing to more hobby-focused gamers, but right now I see mostly the same as usual. 

I got the Death Guard starter because it was dirt cheap, and a few supplemental boxes, but at this point some of them are unopened and I have little interest in getting more. 

Sure AoS has its problems, but most of them stem from inattention compared to 40k that got two new armies, a new ruleset and 10 new army books in the last 6 months. If they start to give this kind of love to AoS, and support their incomplete armies like Elves, Death, Free Peoples, Grots, etc, then most of the problems with AoS will be gone. After xmass we are very likely getting Deathrattle, combined Nurgle, and maybe even High Elves. Next year we might get a core rule update where they cut out the fat and write some new clarity like B2B measurement and more complex rules for shooting.
 

40K and AoS are about the same in terms of army composition options, where the mix actually gets better rewarded in Age of Sigmar as it does in 40K. There are more units per faction in 40K because they do not have the same composition freedom as Age of Sigmar has. Age of Sigmar player seems to want their Battletomes and the speed this comes out with has nothing to do with keeping up. The only way you will keep up is by playing. So far no 40K  armies has acces to hundreds of stratagems.

Showing up with no painted models is also not the regular route for 40K as this completely depends per tournament.
GW's choice to prefer painted armies at least at Warhammer World applies to both 40K as AoS. What applies to you locally is unknown to me.

What Age of Sigmar players, including you, seem to ask for is more models and more Battletomes. This is exactly what the 40K community asked for and got. As @Arkiham stated, if GW wants to awnser this AoS question you end up with similar 40K effects. 40K gives the clearities and more complex rules for shooting and magic. 

1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said:

AoS armies are 1/3 the size and the special rules for each army are typically straightforward (and no stratagems). There are already armies for these races so they are simply getting updated, meaning what we already know about these armies are simply changing. The scrolls are all free so its not hard to take a peek and see all the things that are going on when an army gets updated. 

This again is not true.. Battalion Warscrolls are not free, so it is actually hard to take a peek and see where armies can potentially go into. The only thing AoS works with now is that the mayority of Battalions doesn't have a cost that remotely correlates with their power.
I can't say I like the fact that 80% of the Battalions doesn't have a relevant use in Matched play. It's wasted design if you cannot play with it. 

Edited by Killax
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5 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

40k is vastly more complex than AoS and honestly, its turning me off.

In order to win any game of warhammer you have to understand how to win, how to get the objectives. You have to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your army and how your units are likely to perform in various situations. Lastly - perhaps most importantly - you have to know your enemy. You have to understand what your opponent wants to do with their army, and you have to know how to stop them from doing it.

In AoS its not hard to learn the armies and what they do, what they are likely to do. You need a screen unit vs Khorne to force them into a bad combat when they fly across the table turn 1. For Kunnin Rukk, you need a plan to kill their Orruk Warboss asap and end their double shooting. For Tzeentch you need a way to mitigate their Skyfires asap before they can do too much harm. For Skyre you need to beat down on the Stormfiends before they can freely do 18D3 mortal wounds to you. Etc, etc.

For 40k, things are much different. To start, armies have about 3 times the units on average than AoS armies, so there is a lot more variety and things to understand. Next, you need to understand the special rules of all the armies. With 2+ books coming out a month this is insane to keep up with. Then there are the stratagems. Hundreds and hundreds of stratagems you have to read, understand, and be aware of how your enemy is going to use them to stop you from doing what you want to do, pull off their own combos and sucker punch you.

Add on top of all this complexity the fact that 40k players are about 3x more likely to show up for a game with zero painted models. So you take your beautiful models you spent eons painting,  and get blown out hard by some silly netlist of gray plastic models. AoS players tend to take more pride in their painting. Sure there are gray models abound but often there is at least a few fully painted units and monsters, compared to completely barren gray plastic i see with most 40k armies. Maybe this culture is changing with the new simplified ruleset appealing to more hobby-focused gamers, but right now I see mostly the same as usual. 

I got the Death Guard starter because it was dirt cheap, and a few supplemental boxes, but at this point some of them are unopened and I have little interest in getting more. 

Sure AoS has its problems, but most of them stem from inattention compared to 40k that got two new armies, a new ruleset and 10 new army books in the last 6 months. If they start to give this kind of love to AoS, and support their incomplete armies like Elves, Death, Free Peoples, Grots, etc, then most of the problems with AoS will be gone. After xmass we are very likely getting Deathrattle, combined Nurgle, and maybe even High Elves. Next year we might get a core rule update where they cut out the fat and write some new clarity like B2B measurement and more complex rules for shooting.
 

I have in my head the basics of every single 40k army, I know what's good when people put models on the board and I know generally the way a game will go before set up ends. I am playing AoS right now because I don't have that game solved for lack of a better term. 40k is not hard to keep in your head at all.

 

The only thing that makes AoS less strategic really is priority. It's fruitless to plan around a double turn since you never know if you're going to get it and if you assume your opponent will get it, you have to play far to conservatively to win a game. Otherwise, they're roughly equally difficult. Indeed, for AoS I see more unit diversity than I do for 40k, as lists are easier to build out of mono allegiance in sigmar and list building is radically less strict.

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9 hours ago, Uveron said:

I think it cannot be understated about the size of production problems facing GW. I have had a number of sources tell me that retail teams have been brifed on it and to expect a slow down in the release schedule for new plastics.   Major work has to be completed in the factory. As such we basically can expect one thing, More products being made in China.  So Books and Scenery Kits.  Which is basically what we have been getting the last 6 months. And the fact retail teams have been brifed makes me think we could have another 6 months of wait before the work is finished! 

Still what we get now is a avalanche of products compared to 2000.. 

Stuff happens! They should just be open and say so if that's the case. Get out ahead of rumors

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Very interesting to see those bits from the weekend - roughly the quantity that I was expecting (this wasn't a GW event afterall).  My own "crystal ball" prediction is we're going to see a new age go live next March and the new logo will tie into that.  March is when we're likely getting the AoS Open Day (40k is next weekend, you've then the New Year one in January and HH Weekender in February).  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll see more scenery released alongside the new age.

New Darkoath model is lovely, really pushes that classic Conan barbarian style, but keeping with a Chaos Undivided theme.  Can see what people are saying about the armour, though my own thoughts is that it really works (having the correct balance of form and function).

New Skaven warband was quite a nice reveal, we knew it was coming so got more of a reveal than a hint.

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What we might get and fingers crossed expect is a Warhammer TV video with this years summary and "glimpse into the future" in between Xmas-New Year period. Just like they did last year.

First of all, it will be right after Xmas, so what was suppose to be sold, got sold already.

Second thing, we will cleanse your wallet right after new year with you buying these forthcoming models.

 

Remember those stills of Disciples of Tzeentch and all those posts here and on twitter? That was the hype!!

Edited by Malin
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42 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll see more scenery released alongside the new age.

I couldn’t agree more with this. I loved building and painting all my AoS scenery but would much rather have a few new sets than go the double archway route.

I’ve had my eye on the hellfort but his new version is just to excessive for me. 

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I require more ironjawz units.

One of those shield carts u push to stop arrows would be great.

Maybe some kind of wonky ranged units like tiny wyvern lobbers or waarghint crazy weirdnob beserkers would be cool.

I'm ok if death needs some units and army structure first though. No more godamn order or chaos though for a bit.

Edited by Riavan
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10 hours ago, Uveron said:

By telling the retail staff they basicly have! any more open they risk the stock price. 

In the short term maybe, long term they risk more damage to their brand by not being open and transparent.  Regardless when the financial reports come out (since they are public) the truth will come out.  

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3 hours ago, chord said:

In the short term maybe, long term they risk more damage to their brand by not being open and transparent.  Regardless when the financial reports come out (since they are public) the truth will come out.  

They can dress it up a lot more in the finacial reports, and hide the lack of new models behind other stats. AKA with the pile of new 40K codex's hitting shelves I dont think they will be making any less profit, which is the bottom line. By just talking about it without explaining the whole plan to keep parting us with our money, the stock takes a hit. 

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Just now, Uveron said:

They can dress it up a lot more in the finacial reports, and hide the lack of new models behind other stats. AKA with the pile of new 40K codex's hitting shelves I dont think they will be making any less profit, which is the bottom line. By just talking about it without explaining the whole plan to keep parting us with our money, the stock takes a hit. 

In the short term, but I know locally many AOS players are leaving and finding other games.   They should do something.  Silence is not the answer 

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1 minute ago, chord said:

In the short term, but I know locally many AOS players are leaving and finding other games.   They should do something.  Silence is not the answer 

That's just the cycle of the industry. In my local area they  AOS is picking up steam. And they havent been silent..  as I said they talked about the production issues to staff and it is being talked about here.. 

Ah well, I will get of my soap box now and let everyone get back ' to thinking the sky is falling'. 

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I believe it's been mentioned before, but I'm mostly content still collecting my own army(Seraphon) and trying to develop a community of players in my area. If GW wants to play cautious, then we should wait for the end results. While model-wise we haven't gotten the best deal in the 2nd half of 2017, we've been fairly gifted bookwise. Skirmish, Path to Glory, new Fiction, GHB2017, Firestorm. We have enough written material to make the game feel fresh in many ways.

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For everybody moaning about the AOS releases in the last part of this year - Wait for 2018. GW need to get the bulk of the 40K codexes out to support the new game, especially as it's their biggest money earner (don't believe me, have a look at the online store as there are plenty of things out of stock). They've also done a sneaky reveal for what is happening next year and it's going to be big. It's going to be so big, they want to keep it a surprise for next year rather than shoehorn it into the tail end of this year and not give it the support it needs ;) 

Just in case you aren't sure...

image.png.df9c3b93be672693d14d8271a9f0c996.png

This is the new logo. Why have they done a new logo? Could it be a new boxed game or maybe even a new edition? (I'm going with new box game). Doesn't the logo have subtle hints of a eerie greenness to it, like a ghostly green glow?

MalignPortents.jpg

Malign-Portents2-370x500.jpg

Also they dropped a preview in September for the Malign Portents by showing the Knight of Shrouds. Maybe this and the new logo are linked? Maybe a new Age is going to happen?

So personally, I would wait until next year ;) 

 

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With all of this plus Shadespire, it feels like they might be pushing for Death and Nagash to be the big-bad and centre stage for a while. This will be a nice divulgence from previous Chaos themes and will hopefully please a lot of players. Just, you know, sooner rather than later please!

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