Kitsumy Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Myst said: Sadly not specifically. He doesn’t tell us what he has playtested but has said 3 Idoneth and 2 Fyreslayer, but not specifically what. I would assume the other rumours about Eldar and Chaos releases (7 for Chaos and 11-13 for Eldar) to be accurate for 40K. 2 units +hero for idk and unit and hero for fyreslayers? weird a dual release getting different numbers no? do u know if the boxset will have new models? or only old models with new hero?? i would love a box with full new models, but i dont want 2 unit of baldys more only to get the hero lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higolx Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 23 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: This is a good guess mate!! The Black Library Preview is this weekend, with Eldar coming in the New Year a novel arriving alongside them is a good bet. I forgot about the black library thing this weekend! Hmm, we might be into something... Asides from that, The only thing I really want is for them to announce the third Gardus Steel Soul book but since the author left BL my hopes are not that high. Hopefully we get more AoS books tho. I would love more non Order books but that might be asking too much from GW sadly. I will take any book they release tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morglum StormBasha Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ganigumo said: Do OBR need an update just to overhaul RDP? Its not like anything actually changed, they couldn't use the generic CAs in aos 2 and they still can't in aos 3. I understand every other army got access to a system closer in strength to what ossiarchs had but the mechanic isn't broken or anything and obr are in a very healthy place from a balance perspective based on the statistics. I mean I'm kind of expecting a second wave at some point too but mechanically it seems fine? I don’t feel they need an update as much as say Beasts and Nighthaunt but then I think with OBR it’s more a case of as with Lumineth that they’ll probably get a wave 2 which expands there playstyle. as for competitiveness the book is currently a bit too reliant on Nagash to be successful but I agree it’s mostly fine . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myst Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Kitsumy said: 2 units +hero for idk and unit and hero for fyreslayers? weird a dual release getting different numbers no? do u know if the boxset will have new models? or only old models with new hero?? i would love a box with full new models, but i dont want 2 unit of baldys more only to get the hero lol So I don’t have any direct knowledge. But the term Battlebox was used. Also “water and fyre” follows some of the other Battlebox styled names. Piety and Pain, Wrath and Rapture, and Shadow and Pain for examples. As such I personally would bet 100% on just a Hero and and older units for each army should it happen. Likewise it isn’t common for them to have the same number of releases at all. Piety and Pain had Sisters and Drukhari. Drukhari got only Lelith, while Sisters got what 2 heroes, a tank, a bodyguard unit and more? In the same vein Wrath and Rapture was a precursor to the updated Slaanesh daemon line while Khorne hasn’t seen any such additions or new sculpts. And Shadow and Pain gave us the new Melusi Ironscale, while Slaanesh once again gave birth to an entire host of mortal units after the fact to accompany the Lord of Pain. Daughters got what Endless Spells only? There’s no reason to expect both factions to get equal treatment. Also I want to thank everyone for the worries about my sources “identity” I’ve reached out to him and given that’s all I’m giving he said it’s fine. And he said if he has anything he can share about AoS specifically he will direct me to post it for you guys. Truthfully though he hears a lot more about 40K releases due to how aggressively GW is trying to get it out. Oh and he said “Death” in June. I took it as Bonereapers. But he didn’t actually say Bonereapers. I totally forgot that there are credible Nighthaunt rumour engine pics, so take that however you will. Sorry for the assumptions on my part. I will be direct with information now and not try to fill in the blanks. Edited December 6, 2021 by Myst 6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyadventurer Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Myst said: So I don’t have any direct knowledge. But the term Battlebox was used. Also “water and fyre” follows some of the other Battlebox styled names. Piety and Pain, Wrath and Rapture, and Shadow and Pain for examples. As such I personally would bet 100% on just a Hero and and older units for each army should it happen. Likewise it isn’t common for them to have the same number of releases at all. Piety and Pain had Sisters and Drukhari. Drukhari got only Lelith, while Sisters got what 2 heroes, a tank, a bodyguard unit and more? In the same vein Wrath and Rapture was a precursor to the updated Slaanesh daemon line while Khorne hasn’t seen any such additions or new sculpts. And Shadow and Pain gave us the new Melusi Ironscale, while Slaanesh once again gave birth to an entire host of mortal units after the fact to accompany the Lord of Pain. Daughters got what Endless Spells only? There’s no reason to expect both factions to get equal treatment. Also I want to thank everyone for the worries about my sources “identity” I’ve reached out to him and given that’s all I’m giving he said it’s fine. And he said if he has anything he can share about AoS specifically he will direct me to post it for you guys. Truthfully though he heard a lot more about 40K releases due to how aggressively GW is trying to get it out. Wrath and Rapture had new Karnak and Flesh hounds. The Slaanesh and Sisters stuff mentioned weren't anything new beyond a character. Blood of the Phoenix also had new character + new unit (kit, at least) for both sides. So there's definitely a precedent of more than just a new character each. Some of the early stuff before battleboxes were super common were pretty lopsided with new stuff though (Death Masque, Blightwar). Could also be that the IDK unit just has two different builds and warscrolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurynsar Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 minute ago, boyadventurer said: Wrath and Rapture had new Karnak and Flesh hounds. The Slaanesh and Sisters stuff mentioned weren't anything new beyond a character. Blood of the Phoenix also had new character + new unit (kit, at least) for both sides. So there's definitely a precedent of more than just a new character each. Some of the early stuff before battleboxes were super common were pretty lopsided with new stuff though (Death Masque, Blightwar). Could also be that the IDK unit just has two different builds and warscrolls. Don’t really have a horse in the race. But didn’t Slaanesh daemons end up being the precursor with Masque, Keeper and Fiends resculpt along with the new Contorted Epitome and Infernal Entrapures? That’s quite a larger list. Also Sisters 100% got a huge wave with their book, while Drukhari (the other half) didn’t. The Slaanesh stuff once again was also a massive wave of new options compared to Daughters. Not talking about what’s in the Battleboxes as new. But the fact the armies that come in them do not receive equal support in model releases after said box. But again maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are all talking about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyadventurer Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lurynsar said: Don’t really have a horse in the race. But didn’t Slaanesh daemons end up being the precursor with Masque, Keeper and Fiends resculpt along with the new Contorted Epitome and Infernal Entrapures? That’s quite a larger list. Also Sisters 100% got a huge wave with their book, while Drukhari (the other half) didn’t. The Slaanesh stuff once again was also a massive wave of new options compared to Daughters. Not talking about what’s in the Battleboxes as new. But the fact the armies that come in them do not receive equal support in model releases after said box. But again maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are all talking about. I was only talking about what was in the boxes themselves, not any other additional releases. I feel like if the releases are just going to be new char + new unit, they'd both be in the box. Generally they'd release the new unit stand alone a couple months later. Also, didn't mean to come across like I was "umm.. actually"-ing @Myst, and dump on what they were saying. Just wanted to add the proper context to what I was speculating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurynsar Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Just now, boyadventurer said: I was only talking about what was in the boxes themselves, not any other additional releases. I feel like if the releases are just going to be new char + new unit, they'd both be in the box. Generally they'd release the new unit stand alone a couple months later. Also, didn't mean to come across like I was "umm.. actually"-ing @Myst, and dump on what they were saying. Just wanted to add the proper context to what I was speculating. Ah I thought the rumour was a Fyreslayer versus Deepkin Battlebox (which is always a new hero and old units) and then an additional 1 unit for the Slayers and 2 for the Deepkin. Although it would make sense to have maybe a generic Monster and a Hero Monster from the same kit. So two kits for each, but one gives us an extra Warscroll. I think that’s where the confusion lied was I saw people talking about different things. My bad. As to the rumours I’ve found the lore and idea of both Fyreslayers and Deepkin super cool. They have depth (hahahahaha) but are relatively untouched right now in that depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Khorne did get skulltaker and the Blood master later on after wraith and rapture, which couple with Karnak and the flesh hounds was a significant release compare to what most other armies got in 2.0 but then again looking at 40K while piety and pain did lead up to a sister release both Hexfire and shadow throne is more in line with the standard only one hero model per army book releases, so it a toss up in the end of if these boxset are leading to something more after release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Excited for the SBGL update in WD. For matched play I expect crummy SGBL specific Battle Tactics, but hopefully there will be mount traits, one of the things I was really hoping for in the new battletome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) Yeah I think with the Dual Box it is best to see it as we will at least be receiving a new hero per faction but hopefully be getting a little something more. It might be fun if this edition had a focus on infighting within the grand alliances for boxes at least one per grand alliance: Here are my somewhat tongue in cheek suggestions: Fyreslayers vs IDK (Lava vs Water surf champions) FEC vs Nighthaunt (Flesh eaters are angry because they can't eat ghosts) Gloomspite Gitz vs Gnoblars (Troggoths vs Gnoblars in a subversion of expectations) Wrath and Rapture sequel Deception and Sniffles (I am hopefully grabbing a copy of wrath and rapture soon doubt I could afford this too) Edited December 6, 2021 by Neverchosen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Neverchosen said: Yeah I think with the Dual Box it is best to see it as we will at least be receiving a new hero per faction but hopefully be getting a little something more. It might be fun if this edition had a focus on infighting within the grand alliances for boxes at least one per grand alliance: Here are my somewhat tongue in cheek suggestions: Fyreslayers vs IDK (Lava vs Water surf champions) FEC vs Nighthaunt (Flesh eaters are angry because they can't eat ghosts) Gloomspite Gitz vs Gnoblars (Troggoths vs Gnoblars in a subversion of expectations) Wrath and Rapture sequel Deception and Sniffles (I am hopefully grabbing a copy of wrath and rapture soon doubt I could afford this too) Fyreslayers vs Idoneth: A song of Fire and (melted) Ice. FEC vs Nighthaunt: Body and spirit Gnoblars vs Trolls: Grovel and Gravel Cities vs Beasts of Chaos: Build and Break Kharadron vs Fyreslayers: Two sides of a coin Kharadron vs Seraphon: Sense and Savagery Cities vs Skaven: Streets and Sewers Ogors vs Soulblight: "Wine" and Dine Root Kings vs Chaos Dwarves: Dreams and Domination Kharadron vs Tzeench: Progress and Change 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Myst said: So I’ve been directed here to help fulfill your eager rumour needs. I will be the first to say I do not have rule rumours, in fact most people with people in the know have no such info. It’s more vague release schedules. January - Custodes and Genestealer Cult (40K). No AoS. February - Tau (40K) and Deepkin (AoS). Water and Fyre Boxset. March - Fyreslayers (AoS) and Chaos Space Marines (40K) April - Nothing? (Well a limited Eldar boxset with codex in early April awaiting the late may release. See Below) May - Eldar (40K) June - Bonereapers (AoS) Id like to point out that this has drastically been delayed already, so don’t be totally surprised to see this stretched out even longer. And before you all ask, no. I don’t have any concrete timeline for anything past this (and this isn’t even concrete). I haven’t heard anything about Chaos Dwarves, Ogors, Skaven or the like. Also this information is provided by a person at a local store who is 100% a play tester and has been part of GWs network since the early 2000s Grey Knight program. He has also given accurate information to us for previous releases. He doesn’t give us rule access due to his NDA. I am suppose to add that just because a month looks “empty” it doesn’t mean it is. There will be Combat Patrols for Thousand Sons and Grey Knights. Model releases for some of the armies split over two waves extending into other release windows. As well as Vanguard boxes for both Warclans (they’re actually getting two) and Stormcast. I would like these rumours to be true but imo these are all educated guesses. I think the syrf and tyrf rumour started here. Eldar rumours have been all over the place for a while now as are the Chaos Marines. We know Custodes and GSC are on their way. Nighthaunt rumour engines are really easy to pick out because of their unique design. I can also predict more combat patrols/vanguards are being released in the future. I'm missing any details about anything to be honest to make these easier to believe. Maybe more about what the new models look like. I'm wondering what the 2 warclans vanguard boxes would contain. Ironjawz dont really have more models than the start collecting box and i think its weird if Bonesplitterz get a box with the ancient model line. So maybe a mixed orruks box? Kruleboyz being the other one would be a logical guess. Also i need some new Spiderfang units (or wizard trogg) in my life next year with a new GSG battletome. Edited December 6, 2021 by Iksdee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harioch Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Honestly, if the Fyreslayers new release in the rumored dual box is another hero it's a bummer. The three remaining FS players don't need another one, nor a new scult for an existing one. And even if Herohammer was the army style, them heroes don't distinguish themselves, in art and purpose, enough to make it ok on the table or tacticaly (serisouly I can't figure the difference between a grimwrath and a doomseeker except for the weapons they hold). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Harioch said: Honestly, if the Fyreslayers new release in the rumored dual box is another hero it's a bummer. The three remaining FS players don't need another one, nor a new scult for an existing one. And even if Herohammer was the army style, them heroes don't distinguish themselves, in art and purpose, enough to make it ok on the table or tacticaly (serisouly I can't figure the difference between a grimwrath and a doomseeker except for the weapons they hold). Yes, but a hero is a single loadout on a single model for €25, and a unit is two+ loadouts on 5 (because it will be just 5 for Fyreslayers) for €32,50. 5 times the effort and material for not much more income. Margins on heroes are much better. Plus, you can just use a rejected previous design and remove all effort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnenspeer Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Iksdee said: .. think the syrf and tyrf rumour... Did.. did I create a Meme? 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harioch Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, zilberfrid said: Yes, but a hero is a single loadout on a single model for €25, and a unit is two+ loadouts on 5 (because it will be just 5 for Fyreslayers) for €32,50. 5 times the effort and material for not much more income. Margins on heroes are much better. Plus, you can just use a rejected previous design and remove all effort. I think you are right about the profit on making heroes (especially on clones...looking at you primaris lieutenants). But I think (educated guess, I don't have any numbers) that troops are much more worth it because you only take 1(maybe 2) hero but between 2 to 4 times the same box of troops (even more if it's a multikit). But it's more time and efforts that are made during special events (battletome release (black templars, lumineth), new editions) and have been planned a long time before actual release whereas heroes can be thrown during whatever moments of the year when there isn't much to reveal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Nelriksson Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 If Fyreslayers got more than an hero i would be still happy...only 1 unit is not that much but better than nothing "imho". Maybe they'll split their warscroll with different weapon option (still hoping not cause is the worst problem in Fyreslayer line...too much redundancy while "not so great sculpts"). I could see more an OBR vs Ghoul boxes though, FEC sees Nighthaunt as "bringer of foods" while OBR want Bone Tithes and we already saw some friction between FEC KIngs(not alway loyal to Nagash) and OBR (fervently following his Principles). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ganigumo said: Do OBR need an update just to overhaul RDP? Its not like anything actually changed, they couldn't use the generic CAs in aos 2 and they still can't in aos 3. I understand every other army got access to a system closer in strength to what ossiarchs had but the mechanic isn't broken or anything and obr are in a very healthy place from a balance perspective based on the statistics. I mean I'm kind of expecting a second wave at some point too but mechanically it seems fine? OBR are in a kind of awful place right now, because they lost everything that originally made them unique. Their fluff is that they are this army of hyper disciplined troops led by one of the most brilliant strategic minds to ever have lived, and their rules reflected this by letting them use a lot of command abilities, all the time. Way more than anyone else. Now 3rd ed comes along and just breaks their core mechanic. Now everyone gets to use a lot of commands and there are even a lot of new generic commands introduced to give everyone more tactical options. And OBR just don't get any of them. And not only that, their own commands suddenly come with a lot of new limitations as well, such as not being allowed to issue more than one command to a unit per phase. They go from being the best at commands to arguably being worse than most other factions at using them. OBR are still trucking along by virtue of their strong warscrolls (plus Nagash), but they are in a frustratingly bad situation. They are still playing 3rd ed beta rules while everyone else is using the full release. Their relentless discipline rules used to be an upside, but are now a downside more than anything. Edited December 6, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Harioch said: I think you are right about the profit on making heroes (especially on clones...looking at you primaris lieutenants). But I think (educated guess, I don't have any numbers) that troops are much more worth it because you only take 1(maybe 2) hero but between 2 to 4 times the same box of troops (even more if it's a multikit). But it's more time and efforts that are made during special events (battletome release (black templars, lumineth), new editions) and have been planned a long time before actual release whereas heroes can be thrown during whatever moments of the year when there isn't much to reveal. 34 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said: If Fyreslayers got more than an hero i would be still happy...only 1 unit is not that much but better than nothing "imho". Maybe they'll split their warscroll with different weapon option (still hoping not cause is the worst problem in Fyreslayer line...too much redundancy while "not so great sculpts"). I could see more an OBR vs Ghoul boxes though, FEC sees Nighthaunt as "bringer of foods" while OBR want Bone Tithes and we already saw some friction between FEC KIngs(not alway loyal to Nagash) and OBR (fervently following his Principles). I absolutely agree Fyreslayers need more than just a hero. I like Fyreslayers as a concept, but the whole range only has enough diversity for a single set of infantry models and a monster, not 2 sets and 7 heroes (some of which sometimes stand on a monster). Give me female fyreslayers, give me dwarves with beards and eyes made of literal fire, give me saucy posing short bearded firemen and chippendales with mohawks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) They should do a fyreslayers version of the firebats from starcraft. That would make me instabuy into fyreslayers. Edited December 6, 2021 by Iksdee 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan's Cynic Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) There's a lot they could do with Fyreslayers. Heavy ur-runed armour Firebats as above, different types of Magmadroths (artillery mounted on them, etc), Not!Anvil of Dooms, different types of monsters, fire elementals, something like the K'daai Fireborn etc. Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings does more with a fire-themed SUB-FACTION of their Dwarf army than GW does with Fyreslayers and that game's only been around a couple of years. It's criminal. Edited December 6, 2021 by Clan's Cynic 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Snorri Nelriksson said: If Fyreslayers got more than an hero i would be still happy...only 1 unit is not that much but better than nothing "imho". Maybe they'll split their warscroll with different weapon option (still hoping not cause is the worst problem in Fyreslayer line...too much redundancy while "not so great sculpts"). I could see more an OBR vs Ghoul boxes though, FEC sees Nighthaunt as "bringer of foods" while OBR want Bone Tithes and we already saw some friction between FEC KIngs(not alway loyal to Nagash) and OBR (fervently following his Principles). 31 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said: There's a lot they could do with Fyreslayers. Heavy ur-runed armour Firebats as above, different types of Magmadroths (artillery mounted on them, etc), Not!Anvil of Dooms, different types of monsters, fire elementals, something like the K'daai Fireborn etc. Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings does more with a fire-themed SUB-FACTION of their Dwarf army than GW does with Fyreslayers and that game's only been around a couple of years. It's criminal. I agree. I really hope there is the New unit plus Hero. Fire themes are arguably quite an easy concept to conceive. Give me a Magma Tortoise with a Howdah full of Flamethrowing Crossbow armed Duardin!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkK Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, zilberfrid said: Give me female fyreslayers, give me dwarves with beards and eyes made of literal fire, give me saucy posing short bearded firemen and chippendales with mohawks! The conquest dwarves were a better take on the concept I think, more variety between units and characters, with normal dwarves and fire covered berserkers. The GW fyreslayers badly need some variety, a cavalry/chariot unit and a warmachine would be what I would like. Along with a heavy armoured foot unit to break up the masses of skin, and have an easier to paint battleline unit. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Just now, MarkK said: The conquest dwarves were a better take on the concept I think, more variety between units and characters, with normal dwarves and fire covered berserkers. And they have more than 2,5 troops!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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