The Rumour Thread

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

That was Tom Kirby, the old CEO. Gw does market research now. 

My bad I got them mixed up (since theres seemingly little difference between now GW and then GW I think its understandable)

 

But also doing market research now doesn't change the point I was replying to, that we cant really assume that GW knew better when they dumpstered TK and Bret since at the time they proudly did not do market research.

[PrimeElectrid]

22 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What's this?

ZOOM! ENHANCE!

TOMB KINGS CONFIRMED!

Going out on a limb but I’m pretty sure there’s established fluff that the old Nehekara empire reached the border princes (before there were border princes) and built barrows. I think there was also rules for this at one point.

[Twisted Firaun]

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-grand-cathay-roster-reveal/

Grand Cathay army reveal Ladies and Gents! Here's hoping we get a Cathay vs Kislev army box when this mess is over and The Old World drops!

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

My bad I got them mixed up (since theres seemingly little difference between now GW and then GW I think its understandable)

I think people forget what gw was like when Rountree took over from Kirby. There was AoS which had a terrible start under Kirby, 40k which was in a pretty bad place, Horus heresy which was doing ok and the Hobbit which was dying. White dwarf was weekly which was probably it's worst iteration and the first you heard about a new release was when they went on pre-order. There were no official tournaments, no start collecting boxes no faqs, no Hachette magazines and no social media presence whatsoever (though admittedly it sometimes feels like that is still the case)

Under Rountree they've introduced Underworlds, warcry, Kill-team, Bloodbowl, Necromunda, Titanicus, Aeronautica Imperialis and revived middle earth.  As much as some of the recent decisions may annoy some of us (the removal of digital army books is one of the worst decisions of the last ten years) Rountree is arguably the most successful CEO in the UK. 5 years of consistent growth with the last three being GW's best years ever. A large part of the recent problems has been gw being unable to keep up with demand. 

Anyway, where are our dragons? Damn you Rountree!!!

[CommissarRotke]

6 hours ago, Greybeard86 said:

It is obvious there is a demand fit things like bretonia and tomb kings. Just look at the prices on eBay and the thriving 3rd party industry around them.

It took a long while to build the whole world as an iconic place, and AoS is still riding the nostalgia from those times. Throwing away all that capital seemed like a very stupid move to me and GW is backpedaling big time. 
 

Good, now give me my kurnothi, deep sea monsters, and heartless capitalists infernal dwarfs. 

I'm not so sure AOS is still riding the nostalgia from WHF, it feels like it hasn't  been doing this since sometime in 2nd edition. The Mortal Realms are just a better setting than the Old World even through my nostalgia for it.

[KingBrodd]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/08/good-all-rounders-most-killy-or-best-for-pets-a-guide-to-warhammer-underworlds-warbands/

Pre Orders for Underworlds soon and 'loads' of articles for it next week. So either this weekend or next the pre order announcement will be made and hopefully one of those articles is a Road Map!!

[Black_Templar_Lad]

4 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/08/good-all-rounders-most-killy-or-best-for-pets-a-guide-to-warhammer-underworlds-warbands/

Pre Orders for Underworlds soon and 'loads' of articles for it next week. So either this weekend or next the pre order announcement will be made and hopefully one of those articles is a Road Map!!

I reckon Underworlds will be next week. The latest BT article also states the other units outside the army box will be available over the next few weeks, so I can definitely see Harrowdeep next week based on the language used. 

[novakai]

They said the BT codex is in November according to the 40K roadmap, I would assume it be the same time the other mini are release. Could be the first week of November 

[Ogregut]

I think it will be 

Dragons 

Harrowdeep

Rest of black templars

Based solely on the pattern the remains of my rich tea biscult that fell into my cuppa made.*

If wrong I blame it on the fact I bought cheap supermarket biscuits and not a branded variety that give better readings. 

[Kaleb Daark]

21 hours ago, Ogregut said:

I think it will be 

Dragons 

Harrowdeep

Rest of black templars

Based solely on the pattern the remains of my rich tea biscult that fell into my cuppa made.*

If wrong I blame it on the fact I bought cheap supermarket biscuits and not a branded variety that give better readings. 

might I profer the hidden lore that is the sainsbury's own brand digestive; sucks as a digestive but has it's own merit because it is essentially a double thickness rich tea biscuit, and thereby having twice as much dunkosity.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Kaleb Daark
punctuation

[Neverchosen]

8 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/08/good-all-rounders-most-killy-or-best-for-pets-a-guide-to-warhammer-underworlds-warbands/

Pre Orders for Underworlds soon and 'loads' of articles for it next week. So either this weekend or next the pre order announcement will be made and hopefully one of those articles is a Road Map!!

Psh I don't need Underworlds... I keep telling myself 😑

[Starfyre]

20 hours ago, The Red King said:

Didn't roundtree famously brag that they didnt do market research?

They have always had bean counters though.

[Public Universal Duardin]

19 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

The Mortal Realms are just a better setting than the Old World even through my nostalgia for it.

I agree...to a point. Mortal Realms excels in many aspects where Old World falters - so far there's always room for Your Dudes in the Mortal Realms, and that is something I really really value. I can paint Stormcasts pink and they could still technically be a part of the Mortal Realms without breaking lore, I could write fanfics about me and my friend's battle reports and in theory they could pass for 'real' fiction about the Mortal Realms. That is the strength of the setting. As you can't really paint Empire miniatures randomly and claim these are the men and women under your OC Elector Count of Donutsteelland, we know the full history of the World-That-Was^1. I hope GW keeps it that way and won't 'overexplain' the setting, drawing maps too full or we end in a situation like with the previous Impossible Elector Count of the Magnificent Realm of Donutsteelland. Mortal Realms also feels like the more diverse and vibrant of the settings.

However, the more diverse and progressive characterisations we've seen in AoS could as well be retconned into Old World, I don't think that setting is 'beyond saving' in that regard.

Where I differ with you on crowning Mortal Realms as king (despite my previous deep praise!) of settings is that while all that open-endedness fits me, after talking to multiple friends who have been slow to adopt Mortal Realms; I realised there is strenght in history. Not everyone is creative in same ways, and for every person who creates their own space marine chapters and stormhosts, there's one or two who want to play as Dark Angels and Hammers of Sigmar because they have a deep history - you get to know exactly what kind of dudes your dudes are, heh, without having to pretend to be the next George RR Martin. At least AoS 3.0 rulebook seemed to explain the important cities of the Realms and featured heraldry of the CoS armies within, but I hope GW balances it out so neither - full unknown or everything explained - reigns over each other, but there's room for both.

[1] Yes, I know Border Princes exist, but as they were so sparse with information and about unimportant wannabe-nobility I think most gravitated towards just picking an existing colour scheme or as well say their army was some minor noble's serving under one of the canon Elector Counts or Bretonnian Dukes.

[Vomikron]

23 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I agree...to a point. Mortal Realms excels in many aspects where Old World falters - so far there's always room for Your Dudes in the Mortal Realms, and that is something I really really value. I can paint Stormcasts pink and they could still technically be a part of the Mortal Realms without breaking lore, I could write fanfics about me and my friend's battle reports and in theory they could pass for 'real' fiction about the Mortal Realms. That is the strength of the setting. As you can't really paint Empire miniatures randomly and claim these are the men and women under your OC Elector Count of Donutsteelland, we know the full history of the World-That-Was^1. I hope GW keeps it that way and won't 'overexplain' the setting, drawing maps too full or we end in a situation like with the previous Impossible Elector Count of the Magnificent Realm of Donutsteelland. Mortal Realms also feels like the more diverse and vibrant of the settings.

However, the more diverse and progressive characterisations we've seen in AoS could as well be retconned into Old World, I don't think that setting is 'beyond saving' in that regard.

Where I differ with you on crowning Mortal Realms as king (despite my previous deep praise!) of settings is that while all that open-endedness fits me, after talking to multiple friends who have been slow to adopt Mortal Realms; I realised there is strenght in history. Not everyone is creative in same ways, and for every person who creates their own space marine chapters and stormhosts, there's one or two who want to play as Dark Angels and Hammers of Sigmar because they have a deep history - you get to know exactly what kind of dudes your dudes are, heh, without having to pretend to be the next George RR Martin. At least AoS 3.0 rulebook seemed to explain the important cities of the Realms and featured heraldry of the CoS armies within, but I hope GW balances it out so neither - full unknown or everything explained - reigns over each other, but there's room for both.

[1] Yes, I know Border Princes exist, but as they were so sparse with information and about unimportant wannabe-nobility I think most gravitated towards just picking an existing colour scheme or as well say their army was some minor noble's serving under one of the canon Elector Counts or Bretonnian Dukes.

I have a really hard time wrapping my head around AoS lore because of its lack of grounding in a real world. The Mortal Realms seem to be a place where anything can, and will, happen. I think that this has its pros and its cons.

I can sit and read 40K lore for hours, though it’s the absurdly far future it’s still set in our realm of comprehension. The mortal realms are just so vague and ill defined. Game system wise I much prefer AoS but I find myself consistently going back to 40K armies for their lore and deep history.

[Neverchosen]

50 minutes ago, Vomikron said:

I have a really hard time wrapping my head around AoS lore because of its lack of grounding in a real world. The Mortal Realms seem to be a place where anything can, and will, happen. I think that this has its pros and its cons.

I can sit and read 40K lore for hours, though it’s the absurdly far future it’s still set in our realm of comprehension. The mortal realms are just so vague and ill defined. Game system wise I much prefer AoS but I find myself consistently going back to 40K armies for their lore and deep history.

This is why I have created my own little setting within the mortal realms. I have never chosen a specific realm as I used realm rules for different provinces and settings within my little homebrewed map. 

If I want it to be its own little self contained diegetic space it can be, but if I want to connect it to the larger universe I can always explain those areas are influenced by hidden realm gates making the territories more akin to the realms they are connected to. That is always my goal, to develop a unique narrative informed by the lore but not beholden to it. So that way it becomes my own thing but also I can fit it into a larger narrative of others armies. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Vomikron]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

This is why I have created my own little setting within the mortal realms. I have never chosen a specific realm as I used realm rules for different provinces and settings within my little homebrewed map. 

If I want it to be its own little self contained diegetic space it can be, but if I want to connect it to the larger universe I can always explain those areas are influenced by hidden realm gates making the territories more akin to the realms they are connected to. That is always my goal, to develop a unique narrative informed by the lore but not beholden to it. So that way it becomes my own thing but also I can fit it into a larger narrative of others armies. 

That’s a really good idea. Do you have any of your lore you could share?

[Nordrim]

19 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Nordrim
Miss/double post

[Nordrim]

19 hours ago, Ogregut said:

I think it will be 

Dragons 

Harrowdeep

Rest of black templars

Based solely on the pattern the remains of my rich tea biscult that fell into my cuppa made.*

If wrong I blame it on the fact I bought cheap supermarket biscuits and not a branded variety that give better readings. 

Don't forget vanguishers and vigilators. Hopefully coming with dragons.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Nordrim

[Starfyre]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

This is why I have created my own little setting within the mortal realms. I have never chosen a specific realm as I used realm rules for different provinces and settings within my little homebrewed map. 

If I want it to be its own little self contained diegetic space it can be, but if I want to connect it to the larger universe I can always explain those areas are influenced by hidden realm gates making the territories more akin to the realms they are connected to. That is always my goal, to develop a unique narrative informed by the lore but not beholden to it. So that way it becomes my own thing but also I can fit it into a larger narrative of others armies. 

Which I think is why the Mortal Realms was created.

With a fixed map like the Old World, it was very difficult to justify how certain armies fought each other, it was always a bit contrived - whereas with 40K, they can just make up planets.

That's effectively how I see the realms - fantasy planets. There's even space battles. In the beginning, they were just undefined sand-boxes for everyone to fight their battles, create lore like you have.

But not everyone can do that, so now we have maps and places and stuff, but there's always a hidden realm gate, undefined areas, gaps between, above or below the realms, that allows players to do this. I suspect there's pocket-realms and the like as well. The Mortal Realms are much well-suited to our hobby IMO, just a little while to get there.

[Neverchosen]

2 hours ago, Vomikron said:

That’s a really good idea. Do you have any of your lore you could share?

Honestly I am a little embarrassed to share, but here we go:

My narrative focuses around a frozen region originally inhabited by Ogors and goblins later colonized by humans. In the area a young man was born and became a hero devoted to Sigmar. He valiantly fought the forces of Chaos in the region. Eventually he won the admiration of a Chaos Warqueen who became his fiercest lieutenant and together they journeyed on a massive crusade to the Eightpoints to end Chaos once and for all. Upon seeing the overwhelming might and power of Chaos the hero fell to the dark powers. The Warqueen remained faithful to her newfound faith and lead some followers to rebel against the former hero. The Warqueen and her followers were slain by their former comrades and were reforged by Sigmar for their noble stand. Now the fallen hero leads a chaotic force back into the frozen region to conquer it in the name of the dark gods. The Warqueen has returned with her faithful followers to oppose this dark crusade with one of light. Finally the nomadic Ogors oppose both forces wanting to rid the region of the humans that have damaged the area beyond repair.

I also have decided that if I ever create a death army it will be the wandering souls of the dead left behind by the crusaders who had no one to protect them from the monsters in the frigid region. Additionally if I get into Old World I might build a Kislev army as the army prior to the crusade against the eight points. I do not want either Chaos or the Stormcast to be seen as the heroes in the narrative but rather show that the battle of good and evil harms the people caught in between. Namely the lost civilian population and the Ogors in the wild that just wanted peace.

Here is an example of a test map I made using an online tool but I prefer to draw them out.   
I must add maps make Path to Glory significantly more interesting and they can also give an end point to the campaign as you take over territories.

1 hour ago, Starfyre said:

Which I think is why the Mortal Realms was created.

With a fixed map like the Old World, it was very difficult to justify how certain armies fought each other, it was always a bit contrived - whereas with 40K, they can just make up planets.

That's effectively how I see the realms - fantasy planets. There's even space battles. In the beginning, they were just undefined sand-boxes for everyone to fight their battles, create lore like you have.

But not everyone can do that, so now we have maps and places and stuff, but there's always a hidden realm gate, undefined areas, gaps between, above or below the realms, that allows players to do this. I suspect there's pocket-realms and the like as well. The Mortal Realms are much well-suited to our hobby IMO, just a little while to get there.

I have argued with friends that the Old World can exist within the Mortal Realms, so if people want to use those maps and similar political boundaries they absolutely can do so.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Neverchosen

[whispersofblood]

On 10/8/2021 at 8:14 AM, EccentricCircle said:

True, but the point Neil is making isn't so much that they were more popular than they seemed five years ago. Rather its that their popularity has actually improved in the years since they have been gone.

I think this is likely true, and that there are a few reasons. Clearly total war has made a lot of those old world factions very popular with an audience who wasn't really aware of them during 8th edition. Nostalgia is also a thing, and I think Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. There will be people who always thought "I'll play tomb kings, some day" or "as soon as they replace the derpy skeleton warriors and make everything the same quality as the snakes I'm in!" Those people never got that chance, so if it comes back will likely jump on it.

Even as a solid collector of Tomb Kings before hand, I feel my appreciation for them increased when it was clear they were going away. They were always in my top three factions, but that last scramble to finish my collection really pushed them to the number one spot, and they kind of remain there to this day. Some of that is wanting to be a bit maverick and have a dead faction as my favourite, as I joked in my first post. But also, their squatting makes them this rare and valuable thing, which wasn't true when they were on the shelf.

The question is... Does absence make people spend real money 😂

If anyone was around for the re-release if Wood Elves during 8th edition after the better part of 2 editions in the cold. They didn't sell... At all. Despite the people online insisting that GW was missing out on a cash cow. And Wood Elf fans insisting they would buy it all on release day.

I'm finding it hard to get excited for Old World as I find Total War kinda provides the perfect WHFB experience. But, I'm open to it and will definitely be picking up the first book within a few months of release.

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

Honestly I am a little embarrassed to share, but here we go:

My narrative focuses around a frozen region originally inhabited by Ogors and goblins later colonized by humans. In the area a young man was born and became a hero devoted to Sigmar. He valiantly fought the forces of Chaos in the region. Eventually he won the admiration of a Chaos Warqueen who became his fiercest lieutenant and together they journeyed on a massive crusade to the Eightpoints to end Chaos once and for all. Upon seeing the overwhelming might and power of Chaos the hero fell to the dark powers. The Warqueen remained faithful to her newfound faith and lead some followers to rebel against the former hero. The Warqueen and her followers were slain by their former comrades and were reforged by Sigmar for their noble stand. Now the fallen hero leads a chaotic force back into the frozen region to conquer it in the name of the dark gods. The Warqueen has returned with her faithful followers to oppose this dark crusade with one of light. Finally the nomadic Ogors oppose both forces wanting to rid the region of the humans that have damaged the area beyond repair.

I also have decided that if I ever create a death army it will be the wandering souls of the dead left behind by the crusaders who had no one to protect them from the monsters in the frigid region. Additionally if I get into Old World I might build a Kislev army as the army prior to the crusade against the eight points. I do not want either Chaos or the Stormcast to be seen as the heroes in the narrative but rather show that the battle of good and evil harms the people caught in between. Namely the lost civilian population and the Ogors in the wild that just wanted peace.

Here is an example of a test map I made using an online tool but I prefer to draw them out.   
I must add maps make Path to Glory significantly more interesting and they can also give an end point to the campaign as you take over territories.

I have argued with friends that the Old World can exist within the Mortal Realms, so if people want to use those maps and similar political boundaries they absolutely can do so.

Hot damn this is amazing mate!!

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

The question is... Does absence make people spend real money 😂

If anyone was around for the re-release if Wood Elves during 8th edition after the better part of 2 editions in the cold. They didn't sell... At all. Despite the people online insisting that GW was missing out on a cash cow. And Wood Elf fans insisting they would buy it all on release day.

I'm finding it hard to get excited for Old World as I find Total War kinda provides the perfect WHFB experience. But, I'm open to it and will definitely be picking up the first book within a few months of release.

How do you know the wood elves didn't sell? 

 

3 hours ago, Nordrim said:

Don't forget vanguishers and vigilators. Hopefully coming with dragons.

Hopfully all the remaining stormcast stuff will come together. 

[Lord Veshnakar]

2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

The question is... Does absence make people spend real money 😂

If anyone was around for the re-release if Wood Elves during 8th edition after the better part of 2 editions in the cold. They didn't sell... At all. Despite the people online insisting that GW was missing out on a cash cow. And Wood Elf fans insisting they would buy it all on release day.

I'm finding it hard to get excited for Old World as I find Total War kinda provides the perfect WHFB experience. But, I'm open to it and will definitely be picking up the first book within a few months of release.

Controversial take I am sure, but this happened with Chaos Dwarfs from Forgeworld and it would likely happen with Tomb Kings and Bretonnians as well. The sales just weren't there, and I heard it a thousand times from GW reps. 

People had been screaming for Chaos Dwarfs forever, but then when Forgeworld had finally released them, and the Tamurkhan book, people in the Chaos Dwarf forum said the price point was prohibitive and were finding any way they could to convert Chaos Dwarfs from Battle for Skull Pass dwarfs, buy third party Mantic Chaos Dwarfs, etc etc.  despite the price point was entirely in line with the other armies out at the time. Then they were surprised/flipped out when forge world stopped developing the Chaos Dwarf range.

Despite how much you personally love a range does not change that money (and how you spend it with GW) talks. It's why Space Marines, Stormcast, and Aelves/elves get so much support from GW.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Lord Veshnakar

[Neverchosen]

33 minutes ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

Despite how much you personally love a range does not change that money (and how you spend it with GW) talks. It's why Space Marines, Stormcast, and Aelves/elves get so much support from GW.

This is why I am typically in favour of soups to be honest, it means that low selling armies will still get rules support and possibly have people give it a second look to add to their larger collection.

I have said this a number of times regarding Choas Dwarves. They could get a lot of support in a Slaves to Darkness army as it is a popular range with dedicated fans and they would gladly add some models to their collection. Furthermore with the right rules you could run a pure Chaos Dwarf army providing fans with the ability to play their preferred faction. It would also not be hard to justify from a lore perspective permitting Chaos Dwarves to be a distinct culture that Archaon has allied with in promise of rewards for the Duardins and firepower for the Slaves to Darkness. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Neverchosen