The Rumour Thread

[Snorri Nelriksson]

13 minutes ago, Still-young said:

But dwarves haven’t just got a book which would have been an opportunity to soup them like the Soulblight have. 

Considering the delays maybe they were already considering this idea for 3rd edition after doing the 2nd edition battletome.

For the same reason Ko and Fyreslayers unlike warclans got separated book in 2nd edition so i would consider them safe but these rumors keep *staying around*...or so it seems?

I just hope that fec gets something...and i don't even play them XD. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[Ogregut]

I like the new app, while it will take some getting used to as its not as intuitive as Azur, I do like it has full rules for command traits, spells, artifacts, strategies and so on. 

And its got all the warscrolls for the new stormcast and Orruks. 

A good week to be a warhammer fan. 

[Twisted Firaun]

4 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I don't like to say anything negative but No.

If anyone should get heffalumps it should be the slaves to darkness who had our loverly war mammoth taken away from us by the evil ones.

A bigger badderer plastic war mammoth is the least they could do.. age of the beast and all that, and it would work out nice as I'd buy two to flank my chaos lord on huge dragon that also got taken away and needs to come out in plastic.

If they do that, I promise never to throw them down the toilet and allow them to kill turtles in the ocean.

Heffalumps and woozles?! I must protect my hunny!!!

 

[Elephant_fresh]

After the dumpster fire that is the Stormcast battletome I wouldn't be so keen on seeing any faction I play receive a 3rd edition book yet. Better to wait until powercreep gets into motion rather than be saddled with an early and deficient book. 

[chosen_of_khaine]

1 hour ago, Ogregut said:

I like the new app, while it will take some getting used to as its not as intuitive as Azur, I do like it has full rules for command traits, spells, artifacts, strategies and so on. 

And its got all the warscrolls for the new stormcast and Orruks. 

A good week to be a warhammer fan. 

It only has that for old rules - moving forward you will need to buy the physical versions of the new books to get a code to see the rules in the app. Just like 40k 🙄

[Ogregut]

38 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

It only has that for old rules - moving forward you will need to buy the physical versions of the new books to get a code to see the rules in the app. Just like 40k 🙄

Just like the old app where you had to buy the digital copy. 

[CommissarRotke]

4 hours ago, Perturbato said:

Well the Cathay faction give me the same feeling and i don't know if it's because i just don't want to like it or if i'm right. I need Grimdark added to it in the same manner we have crazy ugly fanatics working for the Empire ! 

 

The grimdark part is that they need a mindbogglingly big, magical wall to prevent Chaos from wiping them out? Their entire nation is built on one idea: The Grand Bastion will not and can not fall. That is a LOT of narrative tension and also serves as their core campaign mechanic. Not everything in Warhammer needs to be aesthetically or morally(?) grimdark for it to fit in. 

4 hours ago, GrimDork said:

I'm in a similar boat to you. I think Cathay look cool, the trailer is very well done. My only gripe is that it doesn't feel very Old World Warhammer to me. Admittedly I'm not at all familiar with the Total War series, other than it exists so maybe this is just how the setting has developed over time, getting more exaggerated for a video game audience. It just all feels to me a bit too fantastical and advanced and OTT for TOW setting.

WHFB was more fantastical than we remember; the modeling tech wasn't caught up to it yet. Most of the units in TWW are tabletop units and they look/feel the exact same way as that Cathay trailer. If GW really wants to reboot the Old World, they needed to make a change with it--easiest way to do that is make a bunch of cool stuff that does fit into a Fantasy pastiche, while breaking away from the low magic Tolkien style. It's about time the Order factions got the same level of cool stuff that Destruction factions tend to get.

[Nos]

6 hours ago, Perturbato said:

Every one is hyped for Catah and i was coming here to see if i could find similar opinions as mine about not beeing happy about this Faction ..

It's ok if you all like it and the creators do what they want with their game but i wil say what i need here as it will help me finding my arguments in the future when people will ask me why i don't like it.

In the past my brother give me free ticket to go to the movie theater whatching "the great wall" because as a fireman he has free tickets by the town. Even if it was free i felt like i wasted something watching the movie. It felt so tasteless, with zero risk taking about creating something original and even dumb ideas for rule of cool.

Well the Cathay faction give me the same feeling and i don't know if it's because i just don't want to like it or if i'm right. I need Grimdark added to it in the same manner we have crazy ugly fanatics working for the Empire ! 

It feels like in WoW when some dude added a Panda and a suddendly a whole fanbase was asking for the lore of the Panda nations and then they created a whole new expansion about it. I was sceptical at first and then i saw they manage to give a soul to the expansion and it fitted in the lore. But here it looks like there is nothing new and it's generic at most.

But you will have get it : it's a subjective opinion, it's cool that people like it and i hope i'm wrong as i was before Mist of Pandaria for WoW. 

Sorry Moderation if i's out of subject ... if more people are not happy with Cathay maybe will we create another topics 

If everything is dark, nothing is dark.

You need glimmers of light to demonstrate how bleak everything else is. 

[Twisted Firaun]

5 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I thought the Cathay trailer was really slick and very well crafted. It was impressive for what it was.

But... it was so predictable. The faction seems like a thin pastiche of "stuff that Westerners vaguely know about China" - fireworks, terracotta warriors, paper lanterns, junks, Chinese dragons. All of those elements looked awesome on screen, but it didn't bring any new ideas, just the same old stereotypes of Orientalism. I was impressed by the spectacle, but I wasn't interested.

 

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

100% agree, but that's exactly what Warhammer Fantasy is.

Anyone remember Bretonians? Orcs? Mummies? Vampire? Lizardmen? Even Skavens are just a pastiche of popular concepts mixed together. Cathay seems to be exactly that.

I agree with both of your viewpoints. Yes Cathay was essentially every oriental stereotype shoved in our face barring the Monkey King showing up with an army of shaolin monks drop kicking a bunch of daemons (for now). But at the same time, I loved the fact that the Tomb Kings were every basic thing people know about ancient Egypt. 

my belief on pastiche nowadays is as follows: if it gets someone interested in the culture being shallowly waded into, and inspires people to look into it, then it’s fair game. On the other hand, if the culture is being used to paint an already horrible popular idea of X culture, then shame on you. 
A great example in Warhammer that hasn’t been expanded upon yet is Araby. The original models and lore for Araby was basically The 1001 Nights and every medieval belief about the Middle East. However, later editions expanded upon the lore, making them the sole survivors of Nehekhara (and possibly worshipping the same gods), as well as the stereotypical Djinn. It was a refreshing take when it seems like whenever a writer has touched the Middle East in the last three decades it always turned into a “Islam and Terrorism is bad” festival. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Loyal Son of Khemri

[Nos]

6 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

 

I agree with both of your viewpoints. Yes Cathay was essentially every oriental stereotype shoved in our face barring the Monkey King showing up with an army of shaolin monks drop kicking a bunch of daemons (for now). But at the same, I loved the fact that the Tomb Kings were every basic thing people know about ancient Egypt. 

my belief on pastiche nowadays is as follows: if it gets someone interested in the culture being shallowly waded into, and inspires people to look into it, then it’s fair game. On the other hand, if the culture is being used to paint an already horrible popular idea of X culture, then shame on you. 
A great example in Warhammer that hasn’t been expanded upon yet is Araby. The original models and lore for Araby was basically The 1001 Nights and every medieval belief about the Middle East. However, later editions expanded upon the lore, making them the sole survivors of Nehekhara (and possibly worshipping the same gods), as well as the stereotypical Djinn. It was a refreshing take when it seems like whenever a writer has touched the Middle East in the last three decades it always turned into a “Islam and Terrorism is bad” festival. 

The fundamental undeniable way to make progress on positive and creativley original and exciting concepts surrounding non Eurocentric cultural Influence is to *give authorship to people from or affiliated with those cultures*. GW is frankly atrociously behind on that front. 

GW are basically no longer insensitive of cultural representation but thats very much a stagnant place to be. Imagine the potential of an AOS faction created by a team expert in Afrofuturism, for example. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Nos

[chosen_of_khaine]

1 hour ago, Ogregut said:

Just like the old app where you had to buy the digital copy. 

No, the old app had all the warscrolls for free. The new one will not for future books.

[Maturin]

5 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I thought the Cathay trailer was really slick and very well crafted. It was impressive for what it was.

But... it was so predictable. The faction seems like a thin pastiche of "stuff that Westerners vaguely know about China" - fireworks, terracotta warriors, paper lanterns, junks, Chinese dragons. All of those elements looked awesome on screen, but it didn't bring any new ideas, just the same old stereotypes of Orientalism. I was impressed by the spectacle, but I wasn't interested.

Maybe that's because that's what ancient chinese culture is about ? Maybe because stereotypes are based on historical reality or a not distant one? When you think about France, you think about bérets, baguette bread, wine and cheese. Guess what, we do eat cheese a lot, we do eat baguettes a lot, we do have so many different kind of wines that we drink but nowadays only parisian chic girls or 80 yo in the countryside wear berets.
I wouldn't be surprised or offended if somebody would portray my people like that.
Also, they did the same with Khemri, Brettonia, The Empire etc. They took historical characters and periods of history and morphed them into a fantasy setting. Brettonia is Medieval Europe, especially England and France. The Empire is 15th/16th century Holy Roman Empire, Kislev is 17th century Polish Empire, Vampire Counts are adapted legends about Vlad Tepes, etc.

You can disagree with what they did, alright, but they're not writing a doctoral thesis about one aspect of ancient chinese culture. It's a video game.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Maturin

[Kadeton]

22 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I wouldn't be surprised or offended if somebody would portray my people like that.

I'm not surprised or offended. I'm just not interested or intrigued. I've seen this stuff before - I'd like some fresh ideas mixed in along with the stale tropes.

[Popisdead]

On 9/8/2021 at 9:45 AM, Snorri Nelriksson said:

Also GW knows that "drastically change" the lore is a financial risk, because people are not always ok with that, more so when that change is not needed (nobody needs to change skaven and BoC GA right now).
And you're right that stills gw did drastic changes in the past so who knows...but i really hope(and in the Boc\Skav case also think) not.

I see things going back to older motifs with making overarching battle tomes and sub factions and those themes being akin to what they've historically done.  The AoS 1 splitting is reversing and people are happy.  Look at Soulgrave.  That's a very significant return to old GW style VC with a nice range update and heavy commitment to the line.  

On 9/8/2021 at 9:56 AM, Ogregut said:

Ghorrus has a bit of a dodgy backstory of getting drunk and rutting lol. I can't see him surviving the destruction of the world that was. 

He was the Captain Kirk of Warhammer.  He probably stowed away on a Seraphon Ziggurat and was busy getting busy with all the aliens and will sire the next line GW will release

On 9/9/2021 at 3:34 AM, JanGret said:

https://spikeybits.com/2021/09/rumors-the-next-battletomes-for-age-of-sigmar.html

Not sure what their rumors are based on.

click bait.  Their rumours are based on click bait to generate ad revenue.  

On 9/10/2021 at 11:13 AM, Nos said:

Duncan Rhodes new paint range 

While I have personally reduced my paint range from over 100 to about 12 (learn to mix, you'll paint better!), all power to Duncan for valuing himself where GW manifestly didnt and a hearty lol that as a consequence of GW's miserly approach to their talent, they now have to contend with an entire rival paint range 

No they don't.  Duncan Rhodes has to compete with Vallejo, Scale 75, Army Painter, etc.

A lot of people are fine and happy to use GW paints which overtime are always evolving and getting better than previous incarnations.  GW does more than fine with their paint range.  

[CitizenX]

51 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

No, the old app had all the warscrolls for free. The new one will not for future books.

Do you have a source for this? I only ask because all communication I have seen has seemed to indicate that you will have access to all the warscrolls (with a subscription), but the actual army rules are what will be gated behind a book code.

[Ogregut]

56 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

No, the old app had all the warscrolls for free. The new one will not for future books.

You know that for sure? The warscrolls are there for the new stormcast and warclans while the traits etc are locked. 

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, CitizenX said:

Do you have a source for this? I only ask because all communication I have seen has seemed to indicate that you will have access to all the warscrolls (with a subscription), but the actual army rules are what will be gated behind a book code.

The warscrolls aren't free if they're locked behind a subscription. 

 

Looks like you'll have to buy the books to unlock the rules portion (that's fine but it's not as good as the old app where we could just buy a full digital version of the battletome with all the fluff and everything instead of getting it for "free" if you buy a 50 dollar physical book you may or may not want). And the warscrolls will be locked behind a subscription fo W+ which is exclusively a downgrade from the old app. In unsure whether you have to subscribe to see the warscrolls from your book if you have the digital code to unlock the rules but I mean. I doubt it right?

[CitizenX]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

The warscrolls aren't free if they're locked behind a subscription. 

 

Looks like you'll have to buy the books to unlock the rules portion (that's fine but it's not as good as the old app where we could just buy a full digital version of the battletome with all the fluff and everything instead of getting it for "free" if you buy a 50 dollar physical book you may or may not want). And the warscrolls will be locked behind a subscription fo W+ which is exclusively a downgrade from the old app. In unsure whether you have to subscribe to see the warscrolls from your book if you have the digital code to unlock the rules but I mean. I doubt it right?

I did not say that they were free. I was specifically referring to the warscrolls requiring a book code. 

 

 

I do agree that the warscrolls being locked behind the sub is a downgrade. Hopefully when the new kits show up on the webstore this weekend we will still be able to get a true cost free warscroll there.

In regards to the content you have unlocked and not having a subscription. From what I recall from the 40k app you can see the books you have unlocked even if you do not have an active sub.

[CommissarRotke]

39 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I see things going back to older motifs with making overarching battle tomes and sub factions and those themes being akin to what they've historically done.  The AoS 1 splitting is reversing and people are happy.  Look at Soulgrave.  That's a very significant return to old GW style VC with a nice range update and heavy commitment to the line.  

On 9/8/2021 at 12:56 PM, Ogregut said:

IMHO the Soulblight release was inevitable. GW has done a lot of good, new things but with a fantasy setting you can't escape vampires and necromancy. They did decide to put a 'new' spin on VC by making this wave Eastern European styled vampires which worked spectacularly well. So while I agree that the throwbacks to WHFB are nice to tie the settings together, I don't think we can call this "reversing" AOS. It's more like GW finding the right groove for AOS's high fantasy.

I am looking forward to the new waves of releases for that exact reason & I hope duardin get their time to shine with this style of design.

edit: because Grungni has been doing all this crafting for Sigmar, his kids deserve the same treatment

Edited September 15, 2021 by CommissarRotke

[HollowHills]

4 hours ago, Elephant_fresh said:

After the dumpster fire that is the Stormcast battletome I wouldn't be so keen on seeing any faction I play receive a 3rd edition book yet. Better to wait until powercreep gets into motion rather than be saddled with an early and deficient book. 

It's bad right?

I don't mean power level bad. I'm sure Stormguard spam is going to do a job. There might be a Vindictor spam build and possibly some meme lists with annihilators.

But it's the most bland and inspired rules I've ever seen in either 40k or AoS.

[Nos]

28 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I see things going back to older motifs with making overarching battle tomes and sub factions and those themes being akin to what they've historically done.  The AoS 1 splitting is reversing and people are happy.  Look at Soulgrave.  That's a very significant return to old GW style VC with a nice range update and heavy commitment to the line.  

He was the Captain Kirk of Warhammer.  He probably stowed away on a Seraphon Ziggurat and was busy getting busy with all the aliens and will sire the next line GW will release

click bait.  Their rumours are based on click bait to generate ad revenue.  

No they don't.  Duncan Rhodes has to compete with Vallejo, Scale 75, Army Painter, etc.

A lot of people are fine and happy to use GW paints which overtime are always evolving and getting better than previous incarnations.  GW does more than fine with their paint range.  

They objectively do have to contend with a new paint range. Literal fact. 

[Snorri Nelriksson]

@Popisdeadpeople are happy when is done in a good way.

Soulblight is logical because Lon was already giving that (sort of) and was a legacy army.

And to be honest is not always the case,some ij and Bonesplitterz player are not enthusiast of having a tome that gave them no new miniatures just to focus on another orruk subfaction that while nice could have had his own tome even considering that destruction is the least expanded GA (i don't dislike the warclans idea,it's still nice, but being an escuse to not expand Ij and Bonesplitterz line is bad).

I know Gw can't have 2000000 armies but let's expand the new factions instead of changing again the armies magament back and forth.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[Magnusaur]

3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

*Snip*

Very well put. For someone who likes the more gimmicky and OTT aspects of Age of Sigmar, Soulblight didn't quite strike a nerve with me. The last few new armies (Sons, Soulblight, Kruleboyz) have been more 'down to Earth' (or 'Old World') than I was maybe expecting. The new Stormcasts feel more grounded and sensible as well. I can understand the concern that the world is regressing back into Old World territory - I certainly would like the two worlds to be as distinct and far apart as possible but I also realize that GW are still developing and experimenting with different things to nail down the Age of Sigmar style - if only one there will be.

[Baron Klatz]

The aesthetics make sense to me since they've been realm-focused releases. Soulblight have a nice OTT mix as they bridge the change between magical Malign Portents to gritty Era of Beasts so we got vampire-centaurs & werewolf hybrids next to zombies and skeletons(though very heroic looking). So we go from crazy Ossiarchs and Lumineth to gargants and orruks while the Thunderstrike have a few toned down elements to balance out their meteor knights, angel and lords who look like they solo'd Warcraft raids for crazy epic fantasy armor(and heck even the Vindictors are packing sword-staffs instead of actual spears. all their new weapons are easily 10-12 feet tall).

They wouldn't fit Ghur's bestial tone if they all came charging in on lightning vessels backed up by Azyr's robot automatons powered by sentient storms. Though now we're getting very ungrim/unwarhammer dragons straight out of high fantasy 90's DnD or Spyro for another tone balance.

It's like how grim Cursed City was but still had art showing the light of Hysh reached the city. They're showing the Mortal Realms can do every tone. That "anything goes" aesthetic AoS has in ample supply with the infinite realms.

I'm sure when focus swings back to realms like Chamon or Ghyran they'll crank the dial back up to match the crazier realms with their floating islands and rampant magic realmscapes compared to Ghur's hungry wastelands(though the continents eating eachother and even ghurian moons staying far away because the Realm of Beasts reached out and ate one are great)

 

[KingBrodd]

I'm starting to think that these COS, Dawnbringer Crusades and Soulblight RE may be the expansions originally planned for Cursed City.