The Rumour Thread

[MitGas]

Just now, AaronWilson said:

Honestly I don't understand how we get drawn into a politics discussion so much. It's not the place for it, it'll only end in a mod closing it down. Just enjoy the toy soldiers for what they are. 

Dunno, people are offended now by everything nowadays. Yellowish painted hobgrots are racist (despite the new minis sharing no physical similarity to Asians outside of some faint armor design cues) and now colonization of some imaginary cultures is problematic. 🤷‍♂️   I guess the Disney twitter is down or something.

[Enoby]

11 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:

Everytime 😂

I hope you are aware that 40k is an incredibly political game from its inception? 😂 But I reckon you just wanted to make a strawman rather than bringing anything to the discussion

Not that politics need to be brought up every battle, but don't be so obtuse and pretend that's what usually happens. Nearly every time I've seen politics brought up in 40k, it's in a introspective way that brings up a point, and then someone ends up coming in with "get politics out of my totally apolotical wargame". 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Enoby

[Gothmaug]

41 minutes ago, JPjr said:

🤔

Lookee! we get 40K style secondary objectives. 

[PainfullyMediocre]

1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said:

what is this cavalaray in the left? With a banner, helebard and Lance?

Demigryphs

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

9 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Don't. Just leave it. Logic has long left this place in regards to many topics. 

Seriously, is it really offensive now that the "good" fantasy guys colonize regions of the bad fantasy guys? Time to grow up. This is fiction - and if the implications of such actions bother you, then kids, the worlds Warhammer (where the good guys are at best in a grey zone usually) are really not the place for you.

I mean, choosing to write a piece of fiction where the good guys do something that is fairly universally agreed to be unethical in the real world, but it's good in the fantasy world is not exactly a value neutral thing to do. It's not like the writers had no choice in the matter. On the contrary, writers are usually very careful about the message they want their works to convey. At least I think it would be insulting to pretend that the writers are just bumbling idiots who have no idea about the real world context of what they are putting to paper and the message it implicitly conveys.

[edmc78]

11 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Don't. Just leave it. Logic has long left this place in regards to many topics. 

Seriously, is it really offensive now that the "good" fantasy guys colonize regions of the bad fantasy guys? Time to grow up. This is fiction - and if the implications of such actions bother you, then kids, the worlds Warhammer (where the good guys are at best in a grey zone usually) are really not the place for you.

IIRC the bad guys took it a while back from the good guys in the Age of Chaos so its all up for grabs right?. Furthermore, Warhammer has always been grey, no total good or bad, just factions in conflicts. That is all this represents. Personally, I think Sigmar is big on inclusivity by letting Elves and Dwarvises into his cities and allowing workshop of other gods. Also he lets ladies fight. 

 

And it is Toy Soilders. 

 

On a side note, I work on Decolonisation in my role and personally I find this kind of reactionary attitude to pop culture trivialises an important issue. I'd take time to consider the issues before jumping at a few words. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by edmc78

[MitGas]

1 minute ago, JustAsPlanned said:

Translation: I don’t like it when people find subtext I dislike or disagree with, so therefore they lack “logic” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) and are being immature. Because I said so.

Dunno what you're smoking but it's not healthy. I've got no problem with imaginary colonization. I got no problem if they show the bad sides of it and I got no problem if they don't.

I think it's ridiculous to get your panties in a bunch about it. This is fiction. If you can't get along with the idea that horrible stuff happens in the world of Warhammer (when the world of Warhammer, no matter which iteration is known for being grimdark to the max), YOU ARE NOT WHERE YOU NEED TO BE. Don't try to change Warhammer to suit your needs, find something that doesn't need to change for you to enjoy it.

Seriously, getting worked up about plastic mini colonization. What the heck. Fight for social justice where it does some people actual good. 🙄

[Yor]

Silly me, I thought this was the rumour thread

[Clan's Cynic]

12 minutes ago, JustAsPlanned said:

“Mmmm yes, compelling argument my friend. However, your point has been utterly refuted and nullified, as I have portrayed myself as a muscular bearded man, and you as a crying soyjak. Better luck next time!”

"As you can see Sigmar, I have depicted you as the Soyjak Soul-Thief and myself as the Undying Chad. You have already lost."

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, Yor said:

Silly me, I thought this was the rumour thread

I don't think this thread has ever truly been a rumour thread in the past 2000 pages

[Tiberius501]

Let’s change the topic back to rumours and news! Politics do not belong in news and rumours.

Are we assuming this big beasty they talked about showing off tomorrow in the article is going to be Kruleboyz? Or are they showing something for another faction?

[MitGas]

4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I mean, choosing to write a piece of fiction where the good guys do something that is fairly universally agreed to be unethical in the real world, but it's good in the fantasy world is not exactly a value neutral thing to do. It's not like the writers had no choice in the matter. On the contrary, writers are usually very careful about the message they want their works to convey. At least I think it would be insulting to pretend that the writers are just bumbling idiots who have no idea about the real world context of what they are putting to paper and the message it implicitly conveys.

IT IS NOT THE REAL WORLD. In the context of this fictional world (and from the POV of the protagonist faction - most of their commentary is written from that POV, how often are Community articles written Imperium-centric and I'm sure the guys working for GW wouldn't be followers of the Imperium in RL) it IS a good thing. That's something entirely different. People are just searching for things they can be offended by.

If you go down that road, you need to immediately close GW cause pretty much every single bit of background would be problematic. Slaughter, war, murder, all that isn't cool.

[EnumaEilish]

Doesn't help that someones cross-posted screenshots from this thread, so we're probably getting brigaded now.

[JustAsPlanned]

Just now, MitGas said:

Dunno what you're smoking but it's not healthy. I've got no problem with imaginary colonization. I got no problem if they show the bad sides of it and I got no problem if they don't.

I think it's ridiculous to get your panties in a bunch about it. This is fiction. If you can't get along with the idea that horrible stuff happens in the world of Warhammer (when the world of Warhammer, no matter which iteration is known for being grimdark to the max), YOU ARE NOT WHERE YOU NEED TO BE. Don't try to change Warhammer to suit your needs, find something that doesn't need to change for you to enjoy it.

Seriously, getting worked up about plastic mini colonization. What the heck. Fight for social justice where it does some people actual good. 🙄

Ok, this is gonna be the last I say on it - cause yknow, rumour thread, if it’s that controversial a topic then it could get its own thread or something. 

The only one I see getting worked up here that I see is you man. Someone literally pointed out that “hey, the idea of a noble civilising force going out and purging the unclean sounds kinda manifest destiny-ish, hope they don’t ****** it up” and you then acted as if that was in any way an unreasonable observation. Nobody’s trying to “change warhammer” we’re literally just hoping they don’t accidentally glorify colonialism lmao. The game is about war, ofc horrible stuff happens, that’s the point.

Oh and FYI I’ve been playing the both 40k and AoS for roughly 6 years, so please cut out the condescending gatekeepy “maybe try somewhere else” nonsense : ) 

[Yoid]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Let’s change the topic back to rumours and news! Politics do not belong in news and rumours.

Are we assuming this big beasty they talked about showing off tomorrow in the article is going to be Kruleboyz? Or are they showing something for another faction?

I bet is one of the already shown Kruleboyz, probably the troll rider.

Really excited for the Grand Strategies. At last a secondary objective system that matter. Fulfilling or denying it is gonna matter a lot in most games. Talking about the one we know, is gonna change the value of certain decisions. You may want to retire your last battleline from an objective because keeping it alive grant more victory points. The enemy may choose to chase them instead of camping an objective because it is worth more too. While not moving them/not chasing them may be a big risk big reward gamble.

[Neverchosen]

24 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

I do find it comical how immediately and hysterically threatened some folks - and it is the same folks as usual in this thread, honestly - are by even the mildest criticism or reading beyond the surface level of... anything really.

Exactly this, it's a strength of AoS and makes it much more compelling than 40k. If we get it with this new edition's background, great. We may well do so! But it's not the vibe being put forward by these (clearly marketing-based, back-of-envelope summary) preview materials.

It is not only telling that people feel threatened by critique but also an indication of how structurally unstable hegemony can be. If exerting some critical pressure causes a narrative to unwind what does that say about the narrative, and more importantly about the narratives we tell ourselves? 

However, I do not consider all artwork to be aspirational and I think that art invites criticism. Warhammer is a highly polemical and parodic expression of fantasy and science fiction tropes. I have always loved the transgressive elements of Warhammer and it is why I have always been drawn to it. But polemical and parodic works are not above criticism and scrutiny and actually more readily invite such investigations of the work. The imperialist fantasy is something that exists within the narrative and player base, but so does it's opposition and unlike many other game systems Warhammer allows you to oppose the conventions that it's narrative sets up. So if someone wants to indulge some imperialistic fantasy of manifest destiny they are permitted, but know that there is a fun loving anarchist with 3d printed chaos warriors or lego built Orruks there to tear down the walls of order. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Enoby]

9 minutes ago, MitGas said:

IT IS NOT THE REAL WORLD. In the context of this fictional world (and from the POV of the protagonist faction - most of their commentary is written from that POV, how often are Community articles written Imperium-centric and I'm sure the guys working for GW wouldn't be followers of the Imperium in RL) it IS a good thing. That's something entirely different. People are just searching for things they can be offended by.

If you go down that road, you need to immediately close GW cause pretty much every single bit of background would be problematic. Slaughter, war, murder, all that isn't cool.

I don't want to go down the politics route much longer, but I think one thing to consider is that fantasy is written by people in the real world. In a Literature course this is paramount to note. 

For example, let's say there was a fantasy book about the "Glorious Golden empire of Dussligkopf that was in a war to exterminate a group of greedy verminlike people called the Skrell who tried to hide inside of this pure society and took a lot of power for themselves, leading to the people living in poverty until a new leader arose and had the strength to take back their empire and restore it to the former glory." 

Would this story be saying anything political? 

Of course, Dussligkopf doesn't exist and neither do the Skrell - it's all fantasy. But there are certain political messages that may be gleaned from the text, don't you think? 

I'm not saying this to have a go, but I think it's both healthy and actually really fascinating to look at why a text may have been written (or at least the context around the writing), rather than just skimming the base level

Edited June 9, 2021 by Enoby

[JustAsPlanned]

10 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Let’s change the topic back to rumours and news! Politics do not belong in news and rumours.

Are we assuming this big beasty they talked about showing off tomorrow in the article is going to be Kruleboyz? Or are they showing something for another faction?

There’s like, a 90% chance it’s Kruleboyz. Although, if they showed off a new creature model for a faction that’s coming later in the edition (IDK 👀) it’d be cool too

[King Under the Mountain]

27 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I enjoy them very much. My point is that GW is actively making it harder to "just enjoy" them by calling the fight of civilisation vs evil a "Crusade". they are bringing me to real world politics, not the other way around

Edit: Leaving the subject to die 

Edited June 9, 2021 by King Under the Mountain

[sandlemad]

15 minutes ago, MitGas said:

IT IS NOT THE REAL WORLD. In the context of this fictional world (and from the POV of the protagonist faction - most of their commentary is written from that POV, how often are Community articles written Imperium-centric and I'm sure the guys working for GW wouldn't be followers of the Imperium in RL) it IS a good thing. That's something entirely different. People are just searching for things they can be offended by.

If you go down that road, you need to immediately close GW cause pretty much every single bit of background would be problematic. Slaughter, war, murder, all that isn't cool.

You might want to calm down dude, you seem to be getting really worked up at people thinking about GW's IP in a mildly critical fashion. We're just talking about a WHC new article.

Edited June 9, 2021 by sandlemad

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

1 minute ago, JustAsPlanned said:

There’s like, a 90% chance it’s Kruleboyz. Although, if they showed off a new creature model for a faction that’s coming later in the edition (IDK 👀) it’d be cool too

Hoping for KB but there’s also those curious keyword DRAKE hanging out there so maybe we get a paired announcement.  One for KB and one for SCE?

[EnumaEilish]

2 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

You might want to calm down dude, you seem to be getting really worked at people thinking about GW's IP in a mildly critical fashion.

 

[PainfullyMediocre]

Generic monsters would be sweet.  While i'd like more Kruleboys stuff for my future army, i'd love to see modern GW sculpting a Dragon type creature.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, MitGas said:

IT IS NOT THE REAL WORLD. In the context of this fictional world (and from the POV of the protagonist faction - most of their commentary is written from that POV, how often are Community articles written Imperium-centric and I'm sure the guys working for GW wouldn't be followers of the Imperium in RL) it IS a good thing. That's something entirely different. People are just searching for things they can be offended by.

If you go down that road, you need to immediately close GW cause pretty much every single bit of background would be problematic. Slaughter, war, murder, all that isn't cool.

This is the last comment I will be making on this, in an effort to keep the thread on topic.

But please do me the favour and read what I write without assuming I have not thought through my position or believe things that are obviously absurd to after a moment of reflection. Also, please don't assume that I am OMFG OFFENDED at the mention of a topic I don't like or want to shut down GW or whatever.

While the world of Age of Sigmar is obviously not the real world, the writers who shape that world and the readers that consume their writing do exist in the real world. So it's not like writing a piece of fiction that endorses colonialism or imperialism (which I am emphatically not claiming GW is doing) is automatically ethically unproblematic because it is fiction. That's making things too easy for yourself. I don't think it should be disputed that fiction is a good way to explore certain ideas and for people to connect with them in ways that considering these ideas dispassionately would not allow.

That is why when certain themes that are ethically dubious in the real world appear in fiction, an appropriate amount of care needs to be taken to present them critically and with a certain amount of respect of the subject matter. And readers have a responsibility of engaging with them critically. Stories are a way for us to try out ideas, and if our story allows people to try out the idea that "colonialism can be good, actually" (again, not claiming this is happening at GW right now), then that demand a certain level of care on the part of the authors.

For this reason, I made the comment that I hope the issue is handled with the appropriate amount of respect, both by the writers and by us, when we engage with the fiction that is presented by GW. I already said that there is no problem with writing about things that would not be ethically sound in the real world or with enjoying such fiction, when done in the appropriate way. Literally all that is needed is the acknowledgment that something like a Dawnbringer Crusade would very likely be quite dubious, morally, if it occured in reality, and a bit of thinking about what makes such a concept still enjoyable in fiction.

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

"Join us tomorrow as we take a look at one of the huge beasts that might be lurking out there in the wilds, waiting to snack on a few unfortunate Dawners. "

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN WAITING FOR.

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

Pretty building the forces of order are building, sure would be a shame if someone came and smashed it 

 

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

Aaaaand now that you've successfully summoned KingBrodd, we'll have to listen about something-Gargants again. 

NEW MEGA GARGANTS?! KING BRODD MODEL!? MATRIARCH GARGANT!? 

1 hour ago, Gothmaug said:

Hopefully Thursday we'll get a big beast preview. I'd like to see a general monster that can be taken by any Destruction force, and gains that allegiance' keyword(s). Some massive megafauna like a Rhinox, a giant predator perhaps (cat, baer, etc), some weird drakespawn would be cool (but directly clash with Kragnos lore, so probably a no),  Or just some huge, terrible beast made of nightmare fuel. There's all these giant bones scattered around Ghur, I want to see what they belong to!. (and then put a howdah on its back and cover it with Orruks and Grots waving banners)

I am so damn excited, this is the most I've been excited about 3.0 its actually a monster day!! Without a Faction mentioned or anything specific besides the Crusades going into the wilds I'm really starting to think that Roaming Monsters will be 3.0s Endless Spells!! 

We could get anything tomorrow people be prepared!!