Raptor_Jesues Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Marcvs said: all the units that don't cause MW on hit rolls are at least hurt by the -1 to hit... alas almost all the strongest ones are not in this cathegory. Shooting is way too strong already and did not need another boost, quite the countrary in fact Edited June 8, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I've seen rumored changes to max unit sizes elsewhere. If units like Bloodstalkers were capped at 10 models instead of 20, "shoot again" abilities (and their shooting in general) becomes a lot less obnoxious without becoming really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreddships Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said: I've seen rumored changes to max unit sizes elsewhere. If units like Bloodstalkers were capped at 10 models instead of 20, "shoot again" abilities (and their shooting in general) becomes a lot less obnoxious without becoming really bad. Might make sense, The new coherency rules definitely seem to be written with much smaller units in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I actually love that the Kruel lads specialize in mortals. Destruction as a whole grievously lacks mortal wound output compared to other factions. It makes sense the sneaky swamp orruks would use toxins to maximum effect. I want to see those hobgrot warscrolls! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ragest said: “Reducing lethality” At least I had that feeling at the beginig (not sure anymore). But let's not panic, we need to see if they can ignore LoS, at least 19 shots for unit at 30" and any magic/habilities that let them reroll to hit!! Because, you know, that's what we have now... Edited June 8, 2021 by Beliman Grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Beliman said: At least I had that feeling at the begning (not sure anymore). But let's not panic, we need to see if they can ignore LoS, at least 19 shots for unit at 30" and any magic/habilities that let them reroll to hit!! Because, you know, that's what we have now... I had the same with slaneesh, dok, br2/3/4 and soulblight, but the new orruks broke the powercreep level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Ragest said: I had the same with slaneesh, dok, br2/3/4 and soulblight, but the new orruks broke the powercreep level Maybe you are right. Imho, it sucks to have all that many mortal wounds around, but I need to play against/with them before having an strong opinion (like some people already have here). Maybe they have 5+hit in all their weapons with only mortal wounds that gives them the oportunity to kill SCE? or a low volume of attacks (without rerolls)? Or non rend at all? Or maybe they all have 5+saves with 2+/2+ profiles and their games ends at turn 2 ? Well, we already have that, so, not a big deal 🤣 Edited June 8, 2021 by Beliman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, Beliman said: At least I had that feeling at the begning (not sure anymore). But let's not panic, we need to see if they can ignore LoS, at least 19 shots for unit at 30" and any magic/habilities that let them reroll to hit!! Because, you know, that's what we have now... I think a 4+ save vs mortals as a blanket ability for every warscroll should balance the game out a bit again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) A person in a Whatsapp chat I'm in who is very well known and respected in the community (you would know their name if I said them but in case they weren't meant to say anything at all I'll not mention them) has replied to someone who said that they really liked using large units to get big buffs. This famous member of the Community said "I want you to remember this moment [name] It will be relevant later" That sounds like there will be a major change to large units that's not just the new coherency rules... They have refused to elaborate further. To specify, this was a response to "In general, since I don't use MSU at all, I feel these strong command abilities are going to reward my playstyle" Edited June 8, 2021 by Enoby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasant Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Not fixing unfun mechanics like double turn or shooting armies, Well last one gets worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feii Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Krule Boyz be like 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 To be fair, all out defense is now usable in the shooting phase and gives +1 save. That is something. You can save your CPs to just +1 save most of your army in the opponent shooting phase. The problem is MW spam and reactive shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHYGW Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Yoid said: To be fair, all out defense is now usable in the shooting phase and gives +1 save. That is something. You can save your CPs to just +1 save most of your army in the opponent shooting phase. The problem is MW spam and reactive shooting. Typical fifth-round heroes and buffers are vulnerable to Shoting, whether MW or not. GW didn't give them the means to protect them in this edition either. Compared to the strength of shooting, Save+ and Hit-1 are not enough to protect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, WHYGW said: Typical fifth-round heroes and buffers are vulnerable to Shoting, whether MW or not. GW didn't give them the means to protect them in this edition either. Compared to the strength of shooting, Save+ and Hit-1 are not enough to protect them. Save +2 with finest hour and then healing later with Heroic Recovery. But i get your point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Yoid said: Save +2 with finest hour and then healing later with Heroic Recovery. But i get your point. if rumors are right they will probably not stack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Raptor_Jesues said: if rumors are right they will probably not stack Maybe they are like 40k? Only for hit/to wound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadral Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) To be honest the meta does not seem that much dominated by shooting. And we have already 2 debuff to shooting armies, with smaller tables and reduced screening (coherency). Add the +1 save command, add all the rumore pointing to smaller unit sizes, I don't get what you want more Edited June 8, 2021 by Khadral Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadral Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) Double post Edited June 8, 2021 by Khadral Edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Khadral said: To be honest the meta does not seem that much dominatore by shooting. And we have already 2 debuff ti shooting armies, with smaller tables and reduced screening (coherency). Add the +1 save command, add all the rumore pointing to smaller unit sizes, I don't get what you want more We apparently play a different game then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Ok now it seems like cavarly is f'ed and monsters/shooting hyper buffed But what if we are going to get secondary mission to achieve points easy to do by infantry and cabalry but hard for monsters and shooting units? This game is not fantasy, is not about killing, is about scoring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosen_of_khaine Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 For all we know, there's a rule that units can only be selected to shoot once per battle round, and this new CA helps mitigate getting double turned with a shooting army. I can think of several other rules that would mitigate this, chill out folks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuriel Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Orruk Warclans then. So, bye bye new units for Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz I'm wondering if Big Waagh will be still usable in 3rd edition. I have wanted to start a project with Greenskins army for four systems (The 9th Age, Kings of War, Old World and Age of Sigmar) using generic Mantic miniatures and Ironjawz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said: For all we know, there's a rule that units can only be selected to shoot once per battle round, and this new CA helps mitigate getting double turned with a shooting army. I can think of several other rules that would mitigate this, chill out folks. The issue is that anyone with even the slightest inclination to the zeitgeist towards shooting would know that we need reassurance that shooting is going to be less powerful. So if those rules do exist (please!), those should be put out at least at the same time as these ones that support the strength of shooting. Otherwise we're all going to get worked up over these rules that are incredibly powerful with our current understanding. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius501 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, Graywater said: The issue is that anyone with even the slightest inclination to the zeitgeist towards shooting would know that we need reassurance that shooting is going to be less powerful. So if those rules do exist (please!), those should be put out at least at the same time as these ones that support the strength of shooting. Otherwise we're all going to get worked up over these rules that are incredibly powerful with our current understanding. This is one of the biggest problems with GW marketing though. It’s fun to a degree getting these little snippets each day, keeps the hype going and gets you looking forward to something each day. And it’s not just a GW tactic tbf, a lot of companies do it. But you definitely get the problem of seeing things out of context which can lead to some rushed opinions. I am included in this, and imo I don’t see any nerfs like that coming to shooting, I think it’s just gonna be really strong, until maybe they nerf the stats in later tomes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feii Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 48 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said: For all we know, there's a rule that units can only be selected to shoot once per battle round, and this new CA helps mitigate getting double turned with a shooting army. I can think of several other rules that would mitigate this, chill out folks. Kinda weird given that Morathi has been updated that with a rule/CA that double shoots the snakes (in a different phase lol) dont expect to see a rule like you have mentioned. Maybe we will grt better terrain rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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