The Rumour Thread

[Galas]

Deathrratle will be then. The Khaine one is a shame. Those are nice models but they don't deserve to cost that much.

[BunkhouseBuster]

1 hour ago, Galas said:

Deathrratle will be then. The Khaine one is a shame. Those are nice models but they don't deserve to cost that much.

To be fair, those kits came out at the height of the Kirby-run GW era of "we are a model company, not a game company" and they were charging higher than typical prices on all new kits.  The Dark Elves got the worst of it, with Wood Elves and 40K Harlequins not far behind in the pricing schema.

For whatever reason, GW seems unwilling or afraid to lower the prices on those kits.  But at least these bundles will help, particularly the Daughters of Khaine one that they just announced - you could get two of those bundles and not have any repeat units.

[bsharitt]

1 hour ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

To be fair, those kits came out at the height of the Kirby-run GW era of "we are a model company, not a game company" and they were charging higher than typical prices on all new kits.  The Dark Elves got the worst of it, with Wood Elves and 40K Harlequins not far behind in the pricing schema.

For whatever reason, GW seems unwilling or afraid to lower the prices on those kits.  But at least these bundles will help, particularly the Daughters of Khaine one that they just announced - you could get two of those bundles and not have any repeat units.

I was hoping the Magmadroth price lowering for the SCFS box was maybe sign that GW was going to go back and do more price correction, though I guess it was an even worse issue so it'll be all we see.

[Rubencm81]

12 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Don't forget that the Cauldron doubles as a Bloodwrack Shrine, which is also in faction and also rather affordably priced for the army.  Four of these boxes would get someone 40 Witch Elves/Sisters, 2 Cauldrons of Blood with Hag, 2 Bloodwrack Shrines with Medusa, 2 Hags on Foot and 2 Medusa on foot.  That is a fantastic start to this army and you'd only need to fill in with a couple boxes of Witches/Sisters, Warlocks, or allies to be set.

I dont think you can build a Shrine too.  A cauldron or a Shrine, but not both.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Rubencm81 said:

I dont think you can build a Shrine too.  A cauldron or a Shrine, but not both.

If they are the same sprues as the normal box it Will be possible. But I dont know how those are arranged. 

[hellalugosi]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

If they are the same sprues as the normal box it Will be possible. But I dont know how those are arranged. 

shrine or cauldron, if the shrine is built you now have access to 2 death hags on foot, one with witch brew, one with deathsword.

if cauldron is built, you get 1 death hag on foot and 1 medusae.

[Veillotron]

Ben Johnson confirmed on Twitter that some Stormcast Eternals will have point adjustments in GH17. 

I'm sure it will be for the best, but I am a bit surprised given the recent release of the new Stormcast battletome.

i wonder which unit(s) will see their points changed... 

[Captain Marius]

Ill be interested to see if Kharadrons and Khorne also get points changes. If theyre going to invalidate books ive paid a lot of money for within 6 months id rather they dont put points in there at all and give another page of fluff.

I think im finally sold on the idea of just hosting points values on the app or web store, so they can be updated without invalidating recent battletomes - this issue is magnified in 40k where my £75 of index books i bought less than 2 months ago are rapidly becoming worthless.

I would be up for paying a subscription to have access to points, and i imagine the competitive herd could be convinced to buy in (to be fair i dont know anyone except me who is annoyed by too frequent faqs and points changes!)

[someone2040]

3 hours ago, Rubencm81 said:

I dont think you can build a Shrine too.  A cauldron or a Shrine, but not both.

He was saying that between 4 kits, you can build 2 shrines and 2 cauldrons. So you're both right, you can't buy both, but he wasn't saying you can (Just that each kit has the option of being built as one or the other).

[someone2040]

11 minutes ago, Captain Marius said:

Ill be interested to see if Kharadrons and Khorne also get points changes. If theyre going to invalidate books ive paid a lot of money for within 6 months id rather they dont put points in there at all and give another page of fluff.

I think im finally sold on the idea of just hosting points values on the app or web store, so they can be updated without invalidating recent battletomes - this issue is magnified in 40k where my £75 of index books i bought less than 2 months ago are rapidly becoming worthless.

I would be up for paying a subscription to have access to points, and i imagine the competitive herd could be convinced to buy in (to be fair i dont know anyone except me who is annoyed by too frequent faqs and points changes!)

Personally I think it's appalling what they did with the Indices in 40k. 

On hey guys, grab the indices, you'll need them to play! Oh, just kidding, we've got a new Marine dex coming for you in 3 weeks time and half the content in the indices are going to be out of date in 6 months time.

Sometimes I'm pretty glad I play AoS, at least we get all the warscrolls for free.

 

That being said, I don't mind points becoming obsolete in the battletomes. Personally I feel the same, that keeping them digital is the best. Not only does it mean they can update them all in one place, but potentially they could decide to change points outside their regular cycle if certain warscrolls become an issue *cough*Skyfires*cough*. 

That being said, if they're deadset on printing them, then it's just something you'll have to live with that in up to 12 months time the points in your battletome may become obsolete.

Edited August 16, 2017 by someone2040

[Kramer]

12 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

That being said, if they're deadset on printing them, then it's just something you'll have to live with that in up to 12 months time the points in your battletome may become obsolete.

I'm convinced that a lot of people prefer the hard copy ones, while GW seems very pro digital releases with the AoS rules. So I guess the sales for the books are high enough to warrant to print them.  

[Captain Marius]

10 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

That being said, if they're deadset on printing them, then it's just something you'll have to live with that in up to 12 months time the points in your battletome may become obsolete.

Valid point, however the downside for gw in devaluing their print products is that i (and perhaps others) wont buy them. 

The AoS campaign books are pretty good but in my view ludicrously overpriced, so i borrowed them to read rather than buy them.

With the prices GW charge for their books, they could easily lose a couple of hundreds pounds of revenue in a year just from me if i dont think im getting value for money... its a fine line to tread!

[someone2040]

14 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I'm convinced that a lot of people prefer the hard copy ones, while GW seems very pro digital releases with the AoS rules. So I guess the sales for the books are high enough to warrant to print them.  

 

9 minutes ago, Captain Marius said:

Valid point, however the downside for gw in devaluing their print products is that i (and perhaps others) wont buy them. 

The AoS campaign books are pretty good but in my view ludicrously overpriced, so i borrowed them to read rather than buy them.

With the prices GW charge for their books, they could easily lose a couple of hundreds pounds of revenue in a year just from me if i dont think im getting value for money... its a fine line to tread!

For the record, I'm not suggesting that the books don't have value. They have tremendous value! and I certainly wouldn't want to do away with them.

I just don't feel that printing the points inside them is a value add. Perhaps I am in the minority (Although, I suspect that going into the future, I'll likely become the majority at some point!), but the points is my least looked at section in the Generals Handbook.

The day the GHB came out, I plonked all that stuff into a google docs spreadsheet so I had access to it wherever I am. Additionally, Warscroll Builder is a great tool that I frequently use for similar things, looking up points and designing lists.

So the points side of things aren't really what I'd buy a battletome for. I'd buy a battletome for the artwork, the fluff, the cool pictures of models on battlefields. That's where the real work goes into a battletome and why they can't just churn out a book every week. The warscrolls and points, I just prefer dealing with them digitally.

 

And I can definitely understand that for some people, they'd just prefer a physical product. So I don't begrudge GW for printing points in their books. But I do think some time in the future they'll need to get digital properly. 

All it would take is having to put up with something like Skyfires for a year I reckon

Edited August 16, 2017 by someone2040

[RuneBrush]

1 hour ago, Captain Marius said:

Ill be interested to see if Kharadrons and Khorne also get points changes. If theyre going to invalidate books ive paid a lot of money for within 6 months id rather they dont put points in there at all and give another page of fluff.

I think im finally sold on the idea of just hosting points values on the app or web store, so they can be updated without invalidating recent battletomes - this issue is magnified in 40k where my £75 of index books i bought less than 2 months ago are rapidly becoming worthless.

I would be up for paying a subscription to have access to points, and i imagine the competitive herd could be convinced to buy in (to be fair i dont know anyone except me who is annoyed by too frequent faqs and points changes!)

I've never quite understood why points were done hard-copy in the first place in truth.  I've said for some time that they'd be better off with a living document online.  It would allow them to tweak and modify points during the year rather than at one fixed point (possibly with errata).  It would require some version control however.

In fairness though, you can gain access to points for free using the Warscroll Builder which is now part of the community site, so no money needs to given, though your Battletome provides a whole host of other things beyond points which aren't changing in the new handbook.

1 hour ago, someone2040 said:

Personally I think it's appalling what they did with the Indices in 40k. 

On hey guys, grab the indices, you'll need them to play! Oh, just kidding, we've got a new Marine dex coming for you in 3 weeks time and half the content in the indices are going to be out of date in 6 months time.

Sorry to be harsh here, but GW were very upfront with saying that they had Codexes ready for release and that Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines and Death Guard were amongst the first ones to be released.

The Index books provide a massive amount more than just one armies worth, I've picked up the two Imperium books to cover my active armies and it's meant I've got the rules and points for a whole host of additional units that previously I didn't have access to - I can add Assassins, Inquisitors, Sisters of Silence - I can even add in additional chapters if I fancied painting something different.  Not only that, but it's the first time you've been able to actually read the rules for your opponents army, previously you'd have had to fork out £30+ for their Codex or obtain it through other means.

I believe that GW have a "cool down" period if you've purchased something that then gets replaced.  I know they increased it to cover any Codex/rulebook purchased for 7th edition providing you have proof of purchase.

[rokapoke]

3 hours ago, Captain Marius said:

Ill be interested to see if Kharadrons and Khorne also get points changes. If theyre going to invalidate books ive paid a lot of money for within 6 months id rather they dont put points in there at all and give another page of fluff.

Replacing one page =/= invalidating the whole book. If you bought the physical books just for the points then you've thrown a lot of money away. 

[Captain Marius]

10 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

Replacing one page =/= invalidating the whole book. If you bought the physical books just for the points then you've thrown a lot of money away. 

True, but its a slippery slope from there.

AoS i think is ok currently, but in 40k im not gonna buy the new codexes as to me they look like basically the same fluff with new bits tacked on, tweaked datasheets and points that i only just paid for in the indexes, and stratagems which look awesome but not enough for me to shell out 80 quid this month on getting up to date.

I think its fair to be concerned about the battletomes going down this path. As well as points, the big Path to Glory sections in the last 4 battletomes have also been invalidated recently... thats a lot of pages that could have been used for other stuff (id have preferred more fluff to contextualise the battleplans).

[Nevvermore]

19 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Don't forget that the Cauldron doubles as a Bloodwrack Shrine, which is also in faction and also rather affordably priced for the army.  Four of these boxes would get someone 40 Witch Elves/Sisters, 2 Cauldrons of Blood with Hag, 2 Bloodwrack Shrines with Medusa, 2 Hags on Foot and 2 Medusa on foot.  That is a fantastic start to this army and you'd only need to fill in with a couple boxes of Witches/Sisters, Warlocks, or allies to be set.

$400 is quite a lot for a "start" to an army!

[wayniac]

19 hours ago, awcamawn said:

Still no further details/pictures/price on special edition of GHB 2017?

"For the truly dedicated, the Warlords Edition of the General’s Handbook is packed with extras that’ll help you with your games. As well as cards for every Battleplan in the book, you’ll be able to get your hands on turn trackers, tokens and more – you’ll be perfectly equipped for a new age of gaming in the Mortal Realms."

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

I'm curious about this as well.  If it's not absolutely stupid priced (given that the regular book is cheaper than most other books) it might be worth picking up.  But if it's like the typical $200 or more then no way.  Say if it's about the price of the 40k rulebook, even the old 40k rulebook, I might be willing to get it just for those extras.

[wayniac]

double post

Edited August 16, 2017 by wayniac

[rokapoke]

19 hours ago, awcamawn said:

Still no further details/pictures/price on special edition of GHB 2017?

"For the truly dedicated, the Warlords Edition of the General’s Handbook is packed with extras that’ll help you with your games. As well as cards for every Battleplan in the book, you’ll be able to get your hands on turn trackers, tokens and more – you’ll be perfectly equipped for a new age of gaming in the Mortal Realms."

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

My local shop owner indicated a US$75 price tag. I'm probably going to splurge for it. 

[wayniac]

23 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

My local shop owner indicated a US$75 price tag. I'm probably going to splurge for it. 

If it's only $75 then I'll definitely buy it.

[chord]

6 hours ago, Veillotron said:

Ben Johnson confirmed on Twitter that some Stormcast Eternals will have point adjustments in GH17. 

I'm sure it will be for the best, but I am a bit surprised given the recent release of the new Stormcast battletome.

i wonder which unit(s) will see their points changed... 

Really?!  It's almost like there is no overall plan?  Why not save ALL point adjustments for the annual GHB? 

[rokapoke]

12 minutes ago, chord said:

Really?!  It's almost like there is no overall plan?  Why not save ALL point adjustments for the annual GHB? 

GW introduces points as an annual update (stating upon release of the first GHB that it would be an annual publication). People get excited.

Certain builds show themselves as very strong over the course of the year. People get angry and demand points updates.

GW updates points midyear for certain armies (Khorne, Stormcast) with publication of new battletomes. People get angry and/or excited, depending upon the unit.

 

Basically, we as gamers are very spoiled. GW, on the other hand, is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Their plan seems to be to update points as they find it necessary. My personal plan is to accept the points updates when they come -- since it is after all just one of three ways to play the game.

[wayniac]

1 minute ago, rokapoke said:

GW introduces points as an annual update (stating upon release of the first GHB that it would be an annual publication). People get excited.

Certain builds show themselves as very strong over the course of the year. People get angry and demand points updates.

GW updates points midyear for certain armies (Khorne, Stormcast) with publication of new battletomes. People get angry and/or excited, depending upon the unit.

 

Basically, we as gamers are very spoiled. GW, on the other hand, is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Their plan seems to be to update points as they find it necessary. My personal plan is to accept the points updates when they come -- since it is after all just one of three ways to play the game.

1/3 that affects like 90% of the game, but in actuality I agree.  I'd rather have them address things faster than slower, when all is said and done.  I'd like to see them adjust as quickly as they are doing for 40k, actually, although there too I dislike that sweeping changes to Matched Play to help tournament balance trickle down to affecting every Matched Play game; IMHO they should have added a 4th way to play, "Tournament Play", that was a stricter subset of Matched Play, just so they could adjust things for tournaments and not have it affect all Matched Play games, since that's the most popular style.  But keeping your "competitive" style different than "I want balanced points" means you can draw a line between the two, since sometimes you want changes that help tournaments, but don't want them to affect non-tournament games; by just modifying matched play, this doesn't happen as any change to matched play affects ALL matched play games, competitive or otherwise, when often the changes come as a result of seeing something at a tournament.  It's as though GW feels that the only time you ever use matched play is when you're in a tournament-type environment (and when you aren't you use open/narrative), when this is generally not at all the case.

[Mikosan]

1 hour ago, rokapoke said:

My local shop owner indicated a US$75 price tag. I'm probably going to splurge for it. 

Yep, me too.  I have some store credit I am now really happy I didn't spend last club day : )