The Rumour Thread

[Clan's Cynic]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

Well, my point is less about the actual products but more about GW expanding these aspects of the hobby as Warhammer as an IP becomes bigger than just the tabletop games. But I'm sure some of those products will look good - if one thing can be said for sure about Warhammer, it's that the artwork is of VERY high quality - lots of amazing talents there. It's likely we will only see more toys like the single Space Marine, more apparel, other stuff from beer coasters to oven mitts... "GW going Disney" is really a good way of saying this. My biggest hope is that they do their damndest to make these products of high quality. Same goes to the new shows. This is all a chance but if things are lacklustre, the chance might be gone forever. Don't wanna sound negative, just sayin' - ideally they'll succeed with all their plans.

I think it's less about expanding Warhammer IPs out to a wider audience - though GW would certainly be happy with that - or else Astartes likely wouldn't be stripped off Youtube (at least reuploaded to Warhammer TV the Youtube channel). I think this has a lot more to do with GW's ongoing effort at keeping everybody within the Warhammer eco-system.

They want the same people who only buy Citadel paints for use with Citadel brushes buying directly from GW stores, who only play GW games to be 'locked in' to their own webstite. They won't want them seeing prominent Youtube painters or battle report makers showing off products, games and miniatures from companies who aren't GW and risking them realising there's viable alternatives. Fan animators might end up making non-Warhammer animations, or have a link to a different tabletop IP, MinIWarGaming's started doing Bolt Action battle reports now, so Lil Timmy might look into that system, etc.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Ganigumo]

22 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Also GW are, I suspect, too focused on doing stuff involving big clanky space marines, and lots of big bombastic dramatic statements, and just generally all the BIG SFX EXPLOSION moments of what makes 40k what it is... and the thing is, that's just not really very interesting past the first few times you see a space marine lummoxing along.

What makes visual media series interesting are the characters, the interactions between them, and the rich depth of the world being depicted as the context thereof. It looks like there might be some promising bits and pieces in the Warhammer + line-up on that front, but not nearly enough to get me excited. Just animating a space marine having a fight and occasionally growling pithy one-liners through a clenched hypersquare jaw isn't going to get me to put down the money.

An animated series focusing on some poor ****** trying to live his life in a hive city as things go increasingly to ******, showing off the way human life has adapted to work in that sort of massive-scale grinding machine of empire, the troubles and problems a person has to tackle trying to achieve something like normality, and the real horror of all the stuff from the wargames juxtaposed against that attempt at normality - showing, by comparison, the sheer horror and insanity of it all? That'd interest me. Bangshoots McSpacebattle? Less so.

Edit: To follow up on that a bit in the context of AoS, showing off Stormcast is all very well, but solid programming would give us a lot of looks at life in the Cities, at what things're like where the reach of Sigmar doesn't extend, horror animations that make a single Chaos Warrior a nightmarish foe, and so forth.

The best candidates for possible aos possible aos shows (in my opinion) would be: Gotrek, something starring a witch hunter, a show following a newly recruited stormcast, or a story about the path to glory.

They would all hit different themes, gotrek would be action, witch hunter would be intrigue/horror, stormcast could be a high fantasy (it would be interesting to learn and see the flaws of stormcasts in a show), and path to glory could be dark fantasy.

[Snorri Nelriksson]

1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

The best candidates for possible aos possible aos shows (in my opinion) would be: Gotrek, something starring a witch hunter, a show following a newly recruited stormcast, or a story about the path to glory.

They would all hit different themes, gotrek would be action, witch hunter would be intrigue/horror, stormcast could be a high fantasy (it would be interesting to learn and see the flaws of stormcasts in a show), and path to glory could be dark fantasy.

They could also do an episodic series about various people and factions in the mortal realms.

That could gives the feeling of the various GA and lifestyle of the people in the settings.

[MitGas]

5 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think it's less about expanding Warhammer IPs out to a wider audience - though GW would certainly be happy with that - or else Astartes likely wouldn't be stripped off Youtube (at least reuploaded to Warhammer TV the Youtube channel). I think this has a lot more to do with GW's ongoing effort at keeping everybody within the Warhammer eco-system.

They want the same people who only buy Citadel paints for use with Citadel brushes buying directly from GW stores, who only play GW games to be 'locked in' to their own webstite. They won't want them seeing prominent Youtube painters or battle report makers showing off products, games and miniatures from companies who aren't GW and risking them realising there's viable alternatives. Fan animators might end up making non-Warhammer animations, or have a link to a different tabletop IP, MinIWarGaming's started doing Bolt Action battle reports now, so Lil Timmy might look into that system, etc.

Sure, makes sense, I get your point - I'm just not sure full control is even possible. Even if they offered complete content saturation and had their own painting channels with 10 different skill levels and gaming vids and cartoons and everything else a fan could ever want, etc. people might still watch 3rd party stuff. And they will never be able to forbid them. They might not be able to use their IP but gaming or painting videos will always be fair game.

[Bayul]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

I'm really surprised about the lack of excitement regarding Warhammer+. I thought that for Warhammer geeks like us it is like a Christmas gift we always wanted. And the animations look really good. 

It's not just that. Warhammer+ was just anncouned and without knowing the price and the full extent the sky is already falling for some people because their very specific animation style and plot doesn't appear in the first wave. They just can't be patient and be adults about it.

Being a 3D illustrator myself I am happy that former fan projects don't need to be reliant on Youtube ads and Patreon anymore. They now have a very focused plattform and a long-term contract (!) for their animations. I can totally understand that Syama Pedersen (Astrates) took GW's offer. And it's not that he will be trapped in the Warhammer IP for all eternity. Duncan Rhodes left and seems very happy.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Bayul
a word

[Ogregut]

5 hours ago, pseudonyme said:

To quote Vince Venturella, the reason why we were / all disappointed by the last reveal show and surely will be by the next one, because we already half know what will be AoS 3 because of the leaks. If we would not have known that, we would have appreciated more those reveals.

So much this! I really hate the potato cam pics and the fact we know so much already about the new faction and new game. 

I'll much rather wait to see everything presented as it should be than see something but someone wants kudos from random Internet people. 

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

I'm really surprised about the lack of excitement regarding Warhammer+. I thought that for Warhammer geeks like us it is like a Christmas gift we always wanted. And the animations look really good. 

I'm looking forward to it, I think we'll see a lot more content on there than people realise: battle reports, eavy metal painting classes (look how popular Darran Lathems videos were), maybe even things like a look at how things work at GW.

See how a battletome is designed, how a sprue goes from liquid plastic to a sprue in your hand. 

Not to mention event coverage at Warhammer World. 

Let's not forget some people already pay a twitch subscription (yes I know if you have a Amazon prime account, you get one free sub a month but some still will be paying) to GW, so people are willing to pay. 

I hope its a success because why would I want it to fail? 

[Kaleb Daark]

46 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think it's less about expanding Warhammer IPs out to a wider audience - though GW would certainly be happy with that - or else Astartes likely wouldn't be stripped off Youtube (at least reuploaded to Warhammer TV the Youtube channel). I think this has a lot more to do with GW's ongoing effort at keeping everybody within the Warhammer eco-system.

They want the same people who only buy Citadel paints for use with Citadel brushes buying directly from GW stores, who only play GW games to be 'locked in' to their own webstite. They won't want them seeing prominent Youtube painters or battle report makers showing off products, games and miniatures from companies who aren't GW and risking them realising there's viable alternatives. Fan animators might end up making non-Warhammer animations, or have a link to a different tabletop IP, MinIWarGaming's started doing Bolt Action battle reports now, so Lil Timmy might look into that system, etc.

I totally agree.

The biggest thing that was noted when the light went out after warhammer fantasy was that the player base, who were for all intents and purposes totally locked into the GW ecosystem started looking elsewhere.

Players suddenly realised that there was a lot out there to command their money and loyalty.

I think that this may also be a long term plan in motion.

Think outside of the gaming box for the moment.   Bandai dolls, marvel comics, funkopops.

As you say, all you need to do is bring that universe so rich and diverse to the acceptance fo the world at large, and you have something big.... very, very big.

Think about where the starwars, trek and marvel franchises have all gone.

What if, just what if, you could get a 40k or AoS film out there with the might of Disney's money and production capability out there?

You become mainstream, you become accepted and your brand and toys become a thing that everyone will happily buy into.

All you have to do is lay the groundwork.  The richness and stories from the setting are in no doubt, and nor are the writers and  imagineers.  But for say the likes of a production company to drop a ton of cash to make that movie cinema worthy it needs to understand and feel what it's all about, and what better way to do that than with small indi producers.

At this point in time, no big fish is going to drop fifty plus million on a punt. But once the small fish have done the donkey work and it's out there and everyone is talking about it, then it gets the attention of the big guys.

If GW can push the animations and make then trend around the globe them the big fish start to take notice.  My money is a marvel / Disney film within a decade.  Probably 40k, but lets face it, with SFX the way they are now, harry potter, Game of Thrones, the Hobbit et al have shown that the swords and sandals epics are still alive and well if done right.

My gut feeling is that this initiative is designed to run at a loss in order to accumulate content and interest.  Once the weight of material is there, the rest will follow.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Kaleb Daark

[Dawnmane]

19 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I totally agree.

The biggest thing that was noted when the light went out after warhammer fantasy was that the player base, who were for all intents and purposes totally locked into the GW ecosystem started looking elsewhere.

Players suddenly realised that there was a lot out there to command their money and loyalty.

I think that this may also be a long term plan in motion.

Think outside of the gaming box for the moment.   Bandai dolls, marvel comics, funkopops.

As you say, all you need to do is bring that universe so rich and diverse to the acceptance fo the world at large, and you have something big.... very, very big.

Think about where the starwars, trek and marvel franchises have all gone.

What if, just what if, you could get a 40k or AoS film out there with the might of Disney's money and production capability out there?

You become mainstream, you become accepted and your brand and toys become a thing that everyone will happily buy into.

All you have to do is lay the groundwork.  The richness and stories from the setting are in no doubt, and nor are the writers and  imagineers.  But for say the likes of a production company to drop a ton of cash to make that movie cinema worthy it needs to understand and feel what it's all about, and what better way to do that than with small indi producers.

At this point in time, no big fish is going to drop fifty plus million on a punt. But once the small fish have done the donkey work and it's out there and everyone is talking about it, then it gets the attention of the big guys.

If GW can push the animations and make then trend around the globe them the big fish start to take notice.  My money is a marvel / Disney film within a decade.  Probably 40k, but lets face it, with SFX the way they are now, harry potter, Game of Thrones, the Hobbit et al have shown that the swords and sandals epics are still alive and well if done right.

My gut feeling is that this initiative is designed to run at a loss in order to accumulate content and interest.  Once the weight of material is there, the rest will follow.

I just wanted to comment on the whole "this could be a Star Wars League IP": I'm pretty sure it can't. Fans of Warhammer games tend to forget that they only work because fans are able to read the satirical subtext (or don't care about it, which can be a bit worrying). Star Wars is a universe that speaks to a monomythical human desire to fight against oppression, become the person you were meant to be, and happy, reconciliatory endings. Star Trek is (or used to be) to some extent a story about the triumph of humanism. Marvel is about finding your identity and finding value in your flaws in order to protect society.

Warhammer, on the other hand, is about death, destruction, militarism and violence. It's ALSO a criticism of those things, definitely, but Warhammer fiction outside of its somewhat cutesy plastic miniature iteration will never be summer blockbuster material. That's not because of bad marketing or because people haven't discovered it yet, but because it really leaves no room for the "believe in yourself and be a good person and things will be alright" stories that all the other big franchises rely upon. Also, the fascistoid aesthetic of the Imperium is not going to work in Western cinema, either (I hope!)

Maybe someone will make a cult hit of a movie out of it, or a grimdark HBO-esque TV series, but it's never going near the big franchises without fundamentally changing what it's about. 

[edit: had to add this] also: Warhammer is satire, which is not something you can succesfully export to global popular culture without a lot of unfortunate misunderstandings happening. And if it's not satire, it instead becomes a very problematic narrative universe promoting values that aren't getting anywhere near Hollywood in such an unmasked form.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Dawnmane
added paragraph at the bottom

[Dawnmane]

2 minutes ago, Dawnmane said:

ignore this, it did a kind of double post
 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Dawnmane
weird double post

[Malakithe]

3 minutes ago, Dawnmane said:

I just wanted to comment on the whole "this could be a Star Wars League IP": I'm pretty sure it can't. Fans of Warhammer games tend to forget that they only work because fans are able to read the satirical subtext (or don't care about it, which can be a bit worrying). Star Wars is a universe that speaks to a monomythical human desire to fight against oppression, become the person you were meant to be, and happy, reconciliatory endings. Star Trek is (or used to be) to some extent a story about the triumph of humanism. Marvel is about finding your identity and finding value in your flaws in order to protect society.

Warhammer, on the other hand, is about death, destruction, militarism and violence. It's ALSO a criticism of those things, definitely, but Warhammer fiction outside of its somewhat cutesy plastic miniature iteration will never be summer blockbuster material. That's not because of bad marketing or because people haven't discovered it yet, but because it really leaves no room for the "believe in yourself and be a good person and things will be alright" stories that all the other big franchises rely upon. Also, the fascistoid aesthetic of the Imperium is not going to work in Western cinema, either (I hope!)

Maybe someone will make a cult hit of a movie out of it, or a grimdark HBO-esque TV series, but it's never going near the big franchises without fundamentally changing what it's about. 

This.  I dont think the world and mainstream media is ready to except 'PURGE THE XENOS' as a forefront of content. 

[Dawnmane]

Just now, Malakithe said:

This.  I dont think the world and mainstream media is ready to except 'PURGE THE XENOS' as a forefront of content. 

I hope not!

[Clan's Cynic]

59 minutes ago, Bayul said:

It's not just that. Warhammer+ was just anncouned and without knowing the price and the full extent the sky is already falling for some people because their very specific animation style and plot doesn't appear in the first wave. They just can't be patient and be adults about it.

Being a 3D illustrator myself I am happy that former fan projects don't need to be reliant on Youtube ads and Patreon anymore. They now have a very focused plattform and a long-term contract (!) for their animations. I can totally understand that Syama Pedersen (Astrates) took GW's offer. And it's not that he will be trapped in the Warhammer IP for all eternity. Duncan Rhodes left and seems very happy.

I've seen pretty much none complain their animation style/specific story hasn't been previewed. All I've seen are a lot of, rightfully, sceptical people who're conscious at the idea of paying out for yet another streaming service and wondering what will end up locked behind it. It isn't childish to have some healthy scepticism, as opposed to blind expectation it will be good just because it's got 'Warhammer' and 'Games Workshop' in the title.

A lot of those offers were probably "Join us, or get a C&D anyway." 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[KingBrodd]

In regards to tonight's Pre Orders I'm hoping Kragnos is finally up and I cannot wait to see what boxes come alongside the book, maybe each of the 4 Destruction Factions will finally recieve a box? 3 Mancrushers together and a box of 3 Thundertusk/Stonehorns maybe? I AM EXCITE!!

[Malakithe]

Just now, Dawnmane said:

I hope not!

Also with how everyone in the world is right now people wont understand that its all satire. Youll have people rioting over the purism of humanity and how poo-y humanity is treated. And lets not open up the pandora's box that is the argument for females space marines. That topic alone will crush the 40k IP. Then theres still the cosmic horrors, pirate elves, murder bots, and all kinds of other crazy stuff lol

Nerds will love it of course but regular people who sit on their couches and watch mainstream tv and streaming services? Nope

[Ganigumo]

2 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

In regards to tonight's Pre Orders I'm hoping Kragnos is finally up and I cannot wait to see what boxes come alongside the book, maybe each of the 4 Destruction Factions will finally recieve a box? 3 Mancrushers together and a box of 3 Thundertusk/Stonehorns maybe? I AM EXCITE!!

Do we know what factions are in kragnos yet?

I know Gloomspite(grimscuttle spiderfang), Destruction(Kragnos), cities, seraphon, and sylvaneth are confirmed. No idea if that list is comprehensive or not though.

I'm hoping for a spiderfang box myself, I've been meaning to pick up a few more spider riders and another arachnarok.

[Bosskelot]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

I'm really surprised about the lack of excitement regarding Warhammer+. I thought that for Warhammer geeks like us it is like a Christmas gift we always wanted. And the animations look really good. 

I already pay for Netflix and Amazon Prime. I'm sure lots of people pay for Disney+ and Crunchyroll and whatever else on top of those.

Yet another streaming service is one too many at this point and is why a lot of them are slowly failing. We've reached peak saturation. With Warhammer+ specifically they look to have very little in the way of actual content and what the quality of content that will be there on release seems to be dubious at best. GW's IP's are good, but not good enough to make me pony up another £7 a month and sit through a couple of hours of potentially ****** animated shorts.

I watched all of Invincible on Amazon recently and rewatched all of Avatar The Last Airbender on Netflix. I highly doubt the Warhammer animated stuff will come anywhere close to the quality and execution of those, at least for the moment.

[Frowny]

I love that this conversation all ended up in a respectful debate about the history and future of war games and GW. What a nice forum!

Back to rumors, I'm actually quite worried about these new cruel boys model complexity for a horde ish army. The level of different colors and details on kragnos' tiny effigy will be brutal and unpleasant to paint if you are needing dozens of them on little figures with robes/armor etc. As well. 

It's kinda like the new zombies-i like the models and the detail but will never ever play or buy them because I don't want to paint 120 of them. I'm worried the kruel Boyz will be similar

[Tiberius501]

Where’s the rumour engine? They’re late! I demand a rumour engine!!!

 

[RexHavoc]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

I'm really surprised about the lack of excitement regarding Warhammer+. I thought that for Warhammer geeks like us it is like a Christmas gift we always wanted. And the animations look really good. 

This is what happens when you spend weeks (and in some cases months) hyping something up and the big reveal is....another reveal is coming. Its previews of previews of previews of trailers.

I'm not a fan of gifts or surprises at all. I've just about accepted that I can deal with announcement > trailer > released item. Anything more than that, I might still be interested, but with ever single scrap and nugget I loose more interest than what it was able to generate to eventually we get to something like this: the excitement for item is gone and what's left is a feeling of 'if it was as good as they keep telling us it is, they wouldn't need to hype is so. It would sell on its own merits'.

Its one of the many reasons I don't watch terrestrial television and I avoid things like tv spots promoting films on youtube/social media etc.

I don't mind hanging out here in the rumour thread, as really this is just one big 'wishlist/guessing' thread anyway and once my interest starts to fall away, I'll drop out again for a few months as I've done before.



 

[MitGas]

 

30 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

This.  I dont think the world and mainstream media is ready to except 'PURGE THE XENOS' as a forefront of content. 

They already did! Starship Troopers e.g. - before the people that identify as aliens (there are already some) become a critical mass, "PURGE THE XENOS!" should be acceptable (at least in the context of fantasy). 😂

[KingBrodd]

21 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Do we know what factions are in kragnos yet?

I know Gloomspite(grimscuttle spiderfang), Destruction(Kragnos), cities, seraphon, and sylvaneth are confirmed. No idea if that list is comprehensive or not though.

I'm hoping for a spiderfang box myself, I've been meaning to pick up a few more spider riders and another arachnarok.

I'm assuming that if it's the Great Waaagh at Excelsis all of Destruction will be present.

12 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Where’s the rumour engine? They’re late! I demand a rumour engine!!!

 

A Sunday treat as well!?

[Neverchosen]

2 minutes ago, RexHavoc said:

Its one of the many reasons I don't watch terrestrial television and I avoid things like tv spots promoting films on youtube/social media etc.

I don't mind hanging out here in the rumour thread, as really this is just one big 'wishlist/guessing' thread anyway and once my interest starts to fall away, I'll drop out again for a few months as I've done before.

I take it you are a fan of Interdimensional Cable? 

I think the ability to walk away from a hobby is really healthy. I also think that the fun thing about this specific hobby is that if you really enjoy an edition or game system it doesn't get patched away like in modern video games. If you have the models, or decent enough proxies, and the rules for an edition or game system, no one can stop you from enjoying it... unless you go into a GW store. 

[Snorri Nelriksson]

I checked, the article of the RE said "tomorrow",so i think it's confirmed today we'll have another pic.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[zilberfrid]

4 minutes ago, MitGas said:

 

They already did! Starship Troopers e.g. - before the people that identify as aliens (there are already some) become a critical mass, "PURGE THE XENOS!" should be acceptable (at least in the context of fantasy). 😂

Starship Troopers the movie already had people agreeing with the fascism in it, and its satire is miles thicker than current era Black Library writing. If there even is satire left in that.

[Dawnmane]

6 minutes ago, MitGas said:

 

They already did! Starship Troopers e.g. - before the people that identify as aliens (there are already some) become a critical mass, "PURGE THE XENOS!" should be acceptable (at least in the context of fantasy). 😂

but that film was way more satirical than GW will ever manage to be (and very directly left-wing political as well)