The Rumour Thread

[Deakz28]

1 minute ago, Feii said:

CC models do have standalone AoS warscrolls and were marketed that way, noboody said that yeah they are getting AoS warscrolls but you cna only play them together which is another rule. Warbands have the rule on their warscroll CC models don't. 

I think one of the leaks said the wolf can be played separately but everything else together, cc says altogether... but I think they will be in the tome nonetheless, since they were to be released a few months apart, which then they may allow radukar (hopefully vyrkos) to be taken alone, or the vyrkos bloodline makes taking them all worth while

[Feii]

2 minutes ago, Deakz28 said:

I think one of the leaks said the wolf can be played separately but everything else together, cc says altogether... but I think they will be in the tome nonetheless, since they were to be released a few months apart, which then they may allow radukar (hopefully vyrkos) to be taken alone, or the vyrkos bloodline makes taking them all worth while

I think is kinda insane that the gravekeeper guy cannot be taken on his own. It just gatekeeps cool zombie armies/playstyles for no reason. 

[Nos]

6 minutes ago, Feii said:

CC models do have standalone AoS warscrolls and were marketed that way, noboody said that yeah they are getting AoS warscrolls but you cna only play them together which is another rule. Warbands have the rule on their warscroll CC models don't. 

Ahhh I was reading CC as Crimson Court, not Cursed City. Apologies. Too many CC's.

Yeah the fact the Cursed City models dont have SGL keyword is another confirmation to me they were intended as a primer to Ulfenkarn lore etc, as part of a separate game. 

The lote of Ulfenkarn is shared across Cursed City and SGL, but I think they are two different productions and were always intended to be.

Now that SGL been properly previewed, I've seen literally no evidence despite shared lore- which commercially speaking is basically irrelevant- to suggest SGL has cabbinalised any of CC, or vice versa. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

6 minutes ago, Feii said:

I think is kinda insane that the gravekeeper guy cannot be taken on his own. It just gatekeeps cool zombie armies/playstyles for no reason. 

For good reason.

I posted this in the Gravelords thread just now:

As for the Cursed City guys: Even though it's sad that they very likely won't see much play, GW made the right decision with them if they are not planning to release the models separately. Imagine if, like, Gorslav or whatever became a competitive staple. You can't have such a unit be locked away behind a €150 box set in a bundle with fifty other models. That goes double if you are not even selling that box anymore.

[Gitzdee]

13 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

I don't understand how that follows. The Mortarchs wield enormous power, but they don't need to be physically large to do so. This seems similar to asking: If Jeff Bezos is so rich, why isn't he built like Hafthor Bjornsson?

Anyway, Nagadron was destroyed and Arkhan is dead so I'm not sure that the Mortarch kit can really be considered "current". I would presume the vampire Mortarchs will get a model update at some point.

I want to add to this that i dont mind each alliance getting a huge model. But i dont want every powerfull character to also have a huge model. I dont mind a bit of upscaling but i dont want AoS to feel like a skirmish game at some point. If everything gets huge it also loses its impact and they have to make even bigger models. We need the smaller models to be able to appreciate the bigger ones imo.

[Feii]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

For good reason.

I posted this in the Gravelords thread just now:

As for the Cursed City guys: Even though it's sad that they very likely won't see much play, GW made the right decision with them if they are not planning to release the models separately. Imagine if, like, Gorslav or whatever became a competitive staple. You can't have such a unit be locked away behind a €150 box set in a bundle with fifty other models. That goes double if you are not even selling that box anymore.

Didn't they say they are looking into releasing at leats some sprues separately? They did that with some other WH quests in the past. 


My personal opinion is that you release them separately in blister packs/one bad guys box and you give them playable rules. I think that is the best possibility for players. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Feii said:

Didn't they say they are looking into releasing at leats some sprues separately? They did that with some other WH quests in the past. 


My personal opinion is that you release them separately in blister packs/one bad guys box and you give them playable rules. I think that is the best possibility for players. 

I have heard that as a "the guy at my store said" rumour, yes.

It would be difficult to release anything except Radukar the Wolf separately. He is on his own sprue, but all the other guys are together on one sprue. I suppose that sprue could be released separately though, as a "Villains of Cursed City" pack.

[Feii]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I have heard that as a "the guy at my store said" rumour, yes.

It would be difficult to release anything except Radukar the Wolf separately. He is on his own sprue, but all the other guys are together on one sprue. I suppose that sprue could be released separately though, as a "Villains of Cursed City" pack.

I hope they do so CC models are one of the best designed models by GW and are a treat to paint (bought 2-3 guys off ebay just to paint them) 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Feii said:

I hope they do so CC models are one of the best designed models by GW and are a treat to paint

I think we can all agree on that.

[sandlemad]

45 minutes ago, Feii said:

If the rumours are true and you cannot take CC bad guys on their own but only as a group that is another massive letdown for me. Not because I own the CC I don't but because it is just a superficial model count at that point and they really don't count for me that way. It is one kit of 5-6 possible bad guys. 

Another thing is Kosargi Guard being keyworded to Radukar the wolf instead of just Radukar. 

It just points to the Bin writer. (I hope not)

I wasn't even thinking of the CC releases. Ignore everything to do with that and honestly the SBGL release is still a bloody big one at fully 12 new plastic kits.

The poor integration of CC minis is a badly missed opportunity, if not unexpected, but I don't think this is any indicator of the 'bin writer', whose shtick is generally just balance and writing (if you accept that he's a Thing). The CC warscrolls affair is just classic GW sloppiness/laziness/deliberate underpowering when it comes to integrating minis from other games into AoS proper. Same as Silver Tower, same as Blackstone Fortress, same as WHU, same with anything that doesn't get a normal release and/or suffers from sprue design like this.

It would be much better if stuff like the zombie ogres or bloodborne or gravedigger showed up but even without them this is still a big and varied release.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

I wasn't even thinking of the CC releases. Ignore everything to do with that and honestly the SBGL release is still a bloody big one at fully 12 new plastic kits.

The poor integration of CC minis is a badly missed opportunity, if not unexpected, but I don't think this is any indicator of the 'bin writer', whose shtick is generally just balance and writing (if you accept that he's a Thing). The CC warscrolls affair is just classic GW sloppiness/laziness/deliberate underpowering when it comes to integrating minis from other games into AoS proper. Same as Silver Tower, same as Blackstone Fortress, same as WHU, same with anything that doesn't get a normal release and/or suffers from sprue design like this.

It would be much better if stuff like the zombie ogres or bloodborne or gravedigger showed up but even without them this is still a big and varied release.

Big agree.

Here's another point I made in the Soulblight thread:

I see some people disappointed with the number of resculpts of old units. I get the desire to want something new, but we should really be more appreciative of these updated sculpts. They are about the rarest type of release GW does, and in the case of Legions of Nagash they were about the most needed. LoN went from a range of bad, old plastic kits and lots of finecast to a full, modern plastic range (except maybe Grave Guard). That is an investment into the future of this faction. It means the more grounded skeleton, zombie and bat aesthetic is sticking around. No one can argue about Soulblight that they are a soup faction for old models left on life support, like they did with LoN.

[drcrater]

We always can use Gorslav as a Vampire Lord proxy... sniff

[Lowki]

1 hour ago, Deakz28 said:

I think one of the leaks said the wolf can be played separately but everything else together, cc says altogether... but I think they will be in the tome nonetheless, since they were to be released a few months apart, which then they may allow radukar (hopefully vyrkos) to be taken alone, or the vyrkos bloodline makes taking them all worth while

I think the below leak (from begin april someone her sorted out) turned out to be accurate, and I think it pretty much confirms that all are int the Tome, but cannot taken separately except for Radukar Beast. And I assume (although not mentioned here) that is also for the other Vyrkos that were reveled, not in the boxed game.

I guess you basically have the choice of making a Vyrkos themed army or a more traditional themed Soulblight army led by the Motarch or the Vamptaur. Still room to add more models to the Vyrkos list, but somewhat limited as you already got a lot of Leaders taken from teh group. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Lowki

[Elmir]

38 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Big agree.

Here's another point I made in the Soulblight thread:

I see some people disappointed with the number of resculpts of old units. I get the desire to want something new, but we should really be more appreciative of these updated sculpts. They are about the rarest type of release GW does, and in the case of Legions of Nagash they were about the most needed. LoN went from a range of bad, old plastic kits and lots of finecast to a full, modern plastic range (except maybe Grave Guard). That is an investment into the future of this faction. It means the more grounded skeleton, zombie and bat aesthetic is sticking around. No one can argue about Soulblight that they are a soup faction for old models left on life support, like they did with LoN.

It was never a soup army... It was 1 army from WHFB: Vampire lords. It's now been finally been split up the way they probably envisioned it from the start. It's probably the GA that made the full transition from WHFB to AoS (except maybe chaos if they sort out Skaven and BoC a bit more). 

Also, owning a lot of both old skellies and the newer versions, the old skeletons hold out just fine... It were mostly the bats, wolves and zombies that needed an update. But many of the old plastic kits hold up just fine today: mortis engine, corpse cart, Vargheist etc still hold up quite well imo. 

I think the only thing they missed, were bat swarms... Those might be completely removed in the new book however. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Elmir said:

It was never a soup army... It was 1 army from WHFB: Vampire lords. It's now been finally been split up the way they probably envisioned it from the start.

That's definitely true. I mostly called Legions of Nagash a soup army because of how the faction mixes a lot of different, not completely unified aesthetics together. That's not surpising given the origin of the army lies with the Vampire Counts of Warhammer Fantasy, which themselves developed out of just a general Undead army. But in AoS, armies tend to have more unified aesthetics, and the splitting off of ghosts into Nighthaunt and Morghasts into OBR made the army feel somewhat soupy, even though historically the direction is the opposite. I think that the new Soulblight range definitely has a stronger identity than old Vampire Counts ever head, largely because it's been freed of a lot of legacy models.

Another thing that makes me want to call Legions of Nagash soupy is this line from the Grand Host rules text:

Quote

This is Nagash's Legion/new overall Death force and it can include any units in the battletome.

At the time of release, I think the intention of LoN to be "Grand Alliance: Death, but good" was there. The later re-souping in of new Nighthaunt models also supports this perspective. In that sense, LoN was very much a stop gap to make all those Death models playable quickly. For Gravelords, by contrast, I don't think it's possible to argue that they are anything less than a fully fleshed out army with it's own identity.

[Elmir]

6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

At the time of release, I think the intention of LoN to be "Grand Alliance: Death, but good" was there. The later re-souping in of new Nighthaunt models also supports this perspective. In that sense, LoN was very much a stop gap to make all those Death models playable quickly. For Gravelords, by contrast, I don't think it's possible to argue that they are anything less than a fully fleshed out army with it's own identity.

Yes, that's why I mentioned they finally got split up like they probably intended. The army makes more sense now than it did before and I'm happy to see LoN waved goodbye in this way. 

I hope something similar can happen for StD, Skaven, CoS and orruk Warclans... 

[Red Bull]

2 hours ago, sandlemad said:

I'm more thinking here of folks looking at this release and believing that there's definitely more models to come or that this is somehow a partial update when there's really no reason to think that. 

It's a consequence of GW releasing minis after the Battletomes came out with Lumineth and Hedonites. There's always going to be that doubt now.

[silverstu]

Well that was great! Love the new Dire Wolves - always had a soft spot for them, Radukar the Beast and Belladamma are fantastic - love the wa they have expanded the vamp bloodlines. The Vengorians are highly disturbing- I wonder if you could take the spare torso from that kit and add it to a mounted vampire .. might be too large. Vamps are looking pretty cool it has to be said -the range seems really big. On the Cursed City sprues I thought they would make the basis of an excellent start collecting  set- the zombies, skeletons, bats and rats are all on the same sprue so they could pack a couple those in and add a character and its good to go. [the characters/specialists are on a separate sprue].

dragons looks pretty cool- glad he's not for Kurnothi- he's clearly more beastial and powerful and suits destruction more. He's a like an ogre/giant-centaur- probably the first of more more special characters for Destruction I'd imagine. Looking forward to seeing these new greenskins, I bought a Rock Troggoth for the dwarf statue bits but I do quite like him...

17 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Please tell or give a hint that Kurnothi might receive a major release in the future as a new army or part of Sylvaneth or whatever. Just that they will happen one day.

 

17 hours ago, Sorrow said:

@Whitefang

I am seconding the question @Aeryenn asked.

Is there hope for Kurnothi in the future?

On the Kurnothi front jus to point out Whitefang very kindly was responding to my enthusiastic dreaming around them - he's constantly indicted they are coming, just not soon-maybe a year away, maybe more- who knows, but I'm sure they'll be worth the wait [ I had been expecting them in the next few months- hence his "not as soon as you think' comment].

In the meantime I've converted a few Kurnothi for my own war band like @Nos and I am letting my eye wander over the new Sylvaneth sculpt and my existing Kharadrons which need finishing. Have faith I'm sure Kurnothi are in our future!

[Jagged Red Lines]

I'm sure Legions of Nagash will return at some point, when skeletor inevitably gets reborn. Maybe in a Broken Realms style campaign book a year or so into the next edition, which allows you to take any death keyword unit under a new set of allegiance abilities.

In a similar vein, I'm wondering if BR: Kragnos has a 'legions of destruction' style list, which would allow you to soup a list from multiple destruction books under his own allegiance abilities. Or if he's purely a mega gargant- type ally that you can just bring into any other destruction army.

[JPjr]

I'm sorry folks I just can't get over Kragnos' boat. The rest of the mini is great but I see that face and I just think brachycephalic dog, like some inbred pug that can't breathe properly and makes all kinds of stupid noises. 

"ahhh here comes Mr Kraggle-Waggles"

apart from that some solid reveals, though again the more I look at the big vampire dragon things the more that body placement absolutely does my head in, will need to see it in person as right now they look like two really cool models kitbashed together in a really awkward way.

rest of it great stuff.

Also I realise yesterday the new broke quite close to them going live so fair enough but I really hoping at some point in this week of Warhammer Fest they find time to pay properly tribute to Richard Halliwell though, would be absolutely criminal if they don't

[Clan's Cynic]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

For good reason.

I posted this in the Gravelords thread just now:

As for the Cursed City guys: Even though it's sad that they very likely won't see much play, GW made the right decision with them if they are not planning to release the models separately. Imagine if, like, Gorslav or whatever became a competitive staple. You can't have such a unit be locked away behind a €150 box set in a bundle with fifty other models. That goes double if you are not even selling that box anymore.

I wouldn't give them that much credit. Even if Cursed City had unlimited stock, odds are high the rules would be exactly the same and the thread would have a lot more complaints about them being such a terrible unit.

[PJetski]

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I wouldn't give them that much credit. Even if Cursed City had unlimited stock, odds are high the rules would be exactly the same and the thread would have a lot more complaints about them being such a terrible unit.

I think even then it would be a good decision to make models available only as part of an expensive boxed game technically playable, but weak rules-wise. From my point of view, any introduction of scarcity/secondary market forces like games like Magic: The Gathering have would be a bad outcome for AoS as a whole. I would definitely not be looking foreward to complaints that you need to buy Cursed City to field a competitive Deadwalkers army, even if the game had unlimited stock.

A big box like Cursed City really is in a different category here compared to stuff like Underworlds or Warcry warbands.Those could definitely receive competitively viable rules no problem. Buying like five models as a bundled deal is not too much to ask. But buying a big 50 model box to get the one hero mini you need for your Cities of Sigmar build would be.

For what it's worth, I also don't like when this happens with exclusive heroes in dual boxes (Spite Revenant, Abhorrent Archregent, that Kharadron Balloon dude) or starter sets (Knight of Shrouds on Steed).

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

 

Rumour engine. Some 40k thing. I'd love it was a super-troll and they reveal the model later today.

[Aeryenn]

People have very different tastes you know. For me the best model of Gravelords are the zombies. Next the new skellies. Then Vampire Centaur. If only Zombies or skellies got 2 more units and a hero I would start a SBGL army. Right away.

I absolutely dislike Radukar (didn't like him in CC also) and I get pissed every time when I look at this old hag on wolf. It's ok, I feel kind of reliefed I can skip this army and continue to work on my pile of shame.

But one thing that I feel bitter about is how Cursed City doesn't integrate with AoS Gravelords. I'm making a guess that like 1/3 of all people who bought the box treated it like a starter for Gravelords in AoS. Yes, GW didn't promise that but also there was not enough communication on their side that it simply won't work. They just said that you can use CC models in AoS. Yes you can, if you want to loose to any "normal" AoS army. Let's be honest here - you are not going to win many matched play games by taking 680 points of random heroes. We can assume they won't have any battalions and their rules are simply symbolic. I really don't understand why they kicked their customers by making it obligatory to take all of the CC or none basically.

I just sold my CC copy today and it felt really good. Have a friend who I play with a lot and he bought CC with the same goal in mind. To have a starting point for SBGL.

Gravelords look like a really solid army. They will be played a lot.