The Rumour Thread

[KingBrodd]

I dont want to step in anyone's toes or ruin anyone hype but this size of release is still massive. I personally am not expecting a Wave 2 for Soulblight for a few years yet, even the Sons of Behemat with only one kit released and the Edition of Destruction around the corner, I dont expect a new kit perhaps even for this edition. 

[Tiberius501]

9 minutes ago, CarkFish said:

Then we really need to have terrain piece + endless spells this week right? .... Unless they're in the book but models follow later, they have done that before tbh (sisters of battle)

Not of they’re keeping that stuff for a second battletome in a year.

[Black_Templar_Lad]

I'm still buzzing over the SGL reveals. 

I've always wanted a proper Werewolf model and I am definitely putting a Thunderwolf head on Radukar, 

Then a load of Dire Wolves mixed with Fenrisian Wolves, then finally bust out the Skin Wolves as Crypt Horrors or something. 

Finished off with a load of Blood Knights I think until we see Kislev minis. Oh I am excited. 

[Russ]

“Then we really need to have terrain piece + endless spells this week right? .... Unless they're in the book but models follow later, they have done that before tbh (sisters of battle)”

Or, they are not getting a terrain piece. Tzeentch didn’t, either did SOB, or Warclans.

Endless spells maybe going / changing anyway now that the Necroquake  has ended.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Russ

[Lowki]

11 hours ago, Nos said:

Dont think this holds up.

If they're not in the SGL book I would agree it's highly suspect, but they almost certainly will be. In which case they're not going to have frantically reprinted the book and added several expansions worth of lore in the space of a fortnight.

Most likely explanation for me:

Prior to pandemic CC was intended for Halloween release, with SGL to come a few months later. CC would serve as promo for new faction and a sort of narrative palette cleanser before BR kicked off.

Ulfenkarn was intended as the new Sylvania, a pivotal location within the lore going forward. I expect much of SHL still to coalesce around this. Especially with Nagashs fall, there needs to be a new locus for Death's narrative. 

CC fell foul of production issues and a hostile international shipping clinate but had to get CC released asap to recoup what it could.
 

SGL had to get released much closer to CC and BR than intended due to the delays of 2020.

This means that the lore around Ulfenkarn looks exclusively CC related as it's basically new to us,  but CC was only ever intended to introduce it as a place, not keep it in a vacuum as with Shadespire, for example.
 

It completely makes sense, for example, that Radukar the Beast is a lord in an *army* sized game, but in a skirmish simulation of 4 dudes hes just like a buff Cossack 

This seems very plausible to me. 

I am not even sure if this is the nail into the coffin of CC, as someone suggested. Sure, no doubt it will not return anytime soon. I think with Soulblight, Kragnos and probably AOS 3.0, GW has different priorities at the moment. But maybe at some point...who knows. I mean it is not really in GW interest either to keep it limited as it is now. It must have been a big investment for them, and no doubt some people have had sleepless nights over the logistic issues they face(d).  

On the other hand, it seems that (all) the villains from CC will be included in the battletome, as stated in the leaks by someone who claimed to have read the book, which turned out to be 100% accurate. So I wouldn't be surprised when GW will somehow find a way to release the miniatures separately (provided, the problem they face doesn't concern the miniatures). That will be a bit of a novelty, as they share the sprues they probably need to be sold as a whole. I guess something like a sort of start collecting Vyrkos or something like that. Very well possible I think, as you cannot select them individually for you army anyway.

Of course this would make a return of CC uncertain, as this way they will be able to recover their investment of the molds etc, without releasing a MTO for CC.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Lowki

[SirSalabean]

I’m not expecting any more endless spells, some armies still don’t have any, it’s showing now the necroquake is over and with these endless spell hunters that they are likely being less focused on. Scenery is definitely possible but as before some armies don’t have scenery too but they’ve got a pretty large release inbound so personally I’m not expecting it to be like Lumineth, we might see more in a couple years. 

[RuneBrush]

4 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Sad that classic VC units like spirit hosts, banshee, wraith and black coach ( with vampire) are not included.

…

anyone wanting to argue that night haunt are their own thing, so are FEC but some of their units are in. NH and FEC are a product of GW splitting the armies. So by that logic zombies and skeletons shouldn’t be in this either and only bat things.

I'll insert the usual disclaimer here - we don't know what units will/won't be included until the Battletome actually lands in people's hands.  The picture shown is just one image likely taken for the book - it doesn't even show the new Wight King which we know it part of the range. 

4 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

I think the big named vampire centaur is fine, but the alt build should have been a regular vampire on abyssal terror. 
Considering how big this center piece is it begs the question why the mortarch vampires aren’t that big. Honestly seems like bad design choice.

The mortarch models are something like 5 to 6 years old and originally created for WHFB back when GW didn't really have the technology or capacity to do huge centrepiece miniatures.  If we're lucky we may get a resculpt at some point in the future.

4 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

other thing that is odd is the injection if “kislev” vampires. Where most of the characters and vamps available are in that style where bloodknights don’t share that new aesthetic.

Replacing skeletons with a different aesthetic, heavy armor on basic infantry next to the now derpy looking grave guard. The only unifying theme is that they are skeletons in armor, but the aesthetics, motion etc are all contrasting. 

The different atheistic is really trying to bring home that the mortal realms are huge places with a real diversity of culture.  Black Library have been doing this fairly well in books, so it was only a matter of time before the miniature range caught up.  That classic gothic look is still there in the way of Blood Knights, but the Vykros miniatures have that Kislev-esq look with a heavy fur / wolf style if that's your thing (and it's a style you could easily replicate with some simple conversions too).

I did find releasing new skeletons a bit strange.  As you point out the new ones (of which the Cursed City ones were a bliss to assemble) are more of a Grave Guard replacement.  I'm wondering if Gravelords will only have the option of 1 skeleton type and we'll see Grave Guard ultimately being removed as an option/model longer term.

[zamerion]

seriously I'm really looking forward to seeing the new "small orcs"

 

I hope that on Saturday they give us even a small advance ..

[Nos]

4 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I'm not sure why everyone's counter argument to "this looks like a scrapped expansion" is "how did it get in the book so last second." Nothing about a world where this was a Cursed City expansion would preclude the model from also being in the army book. You yourself admitted that Cursed City and SBGL were likely supposed to have a bigger gap between them. They could have been planning that the 1st expansion with Radukar the Beast would be out already by the time the SBGL battletome released.

I will concede as I've seen commented elsewhere that the proof will be in how you assemble his miniature. If he's not push fit, he was never meant to be an expansion. Same goes for any other conspiracy expansions (like the Ven Densts or Kritza and Annika). If any of them are push fit, that's a pretty big confirmation they were supposed to be for Cursed City. If not push fit, then they definitely weren't intended for Cursed City.

They wont be

Why would GW release the same model twice, just in different packaging? That increases the price for *them* for no reason at all 

 

 

[NotAWzrd]

I think Kragnos is my favourite model GW have ever made as of right now. All of the SGL stuff is incredible too, the miniature design quality has come on tenfold from even just a few years ago when AOS was first released.

His backstory really evokes the theory I had of him being from a race of Dothraki like centaurs, him being the Khal Drogo like figurehead who leads them owing simply to his sheer force and might. Whilst I would love for him to get his own faction to tie in aesthetically (holy hell the verdigris on that shield and armour is awesome!) I’m just super happy Destruction have their own God model now. 

My only complaint is that the best beastmen model ever sadly can’t even be used by them! I’m still holding out for destruction beastmen one day though. 

Also I noticed the music from the Kragnos model trailer is very Mongolian harp / the Hu sounding which could lend credence to the new destruction army rumours perhaps? 

[Lightbox]

4 minutes ago, Nos said:

They wont be

Why would GW release the same model twice, just in different packaging? That increases the price for *them* for no reason at all 

 

 

They did that with the models from the first starter set. Put them into start collectings.

[drcrater]

The only thing of the Soulblight release that saddens me a bit is the abscence of a Deadwalker Hero, I had hopes to have one when Gorslav from Cursed City was announced, but it looks that despite the handsome spade guy and the zombie ogors from CC, we will only have zombies, corpse cart and direwolves to do a zombie army  And the CC guys are impossible to use if they keep the super 650 points pack that is Cursed City models for AoS

[sandlemad]

RE: Endless Spells and terrain, there's also the consideration that these were manufactured in China, and the issues with that and global logistics for GW have been highlighted in the last year and a half. Given how far in advance SBGL were clearly prepared that probably isn't a determining factor - though I suppose you could see the bow wave of GW getting burned by this with the Sylvaneth book - but will be a thing with factions/new releases in the near future, which would have been in development or production under covid.

Either way there are recently released/updated armies which don't have terrain or endless spells so I wouldn't hold onto SBGL version being a guarantee or even an obvious absence. It really is a big release already, nothing like the visibly partial first Lumineth wave.

Edited May 4, 2021 by sandlemad

[Lowki]

The preview was not more or less than I expected. Biggest surprise for me, if you can call it that way, was that Kragnos is destruction after all. In the end I kinda expected it to be Chaos/BoC.

I love the Dire wolfs, they are awesome. Nice details like the crow picking from the flesh of the back of one of them. Also really happy with the "Beast" and "grandma", as I am a big fan of the Romanov style aristocracy from the Vyrkos Family (not an Historian, so maybe that claim about Romanov style is not historically correct, sorry in advance )

The only thing I am not really enthousiastic about, is Lauka Vai. No doubt it is an excellent sculpt like all reveals and teasers so far, the pose, the details, the base, but somehow, I dunno, I have problems with the giant vampire torso growing from the the neck of a creature. That probably tells more about me than the sculpt itself. Apparently my brains have issues with appreciating things that are anatomically incorrect. I had a bit of the same with OBR.

All on all I think GW did an excellent job with Soulblight. Units that really needed an upgrade were replaced by so much better models (zombies, fellbats, mounted wightking), others that may not need an upgrade that badly will still significantly be improved (skellies, direwolves, bloodknights), A lot of flavor added with the Vyrkos, the new big centerpiece with two variants, and then there is still a lot that we can choose from the original range (Zombie Dragon, Corpsecart, graveguard, Black knights, Neferata, Mannfred, Vargheist), some not yet confirmed staying, but I guess Mortis engine/Coven Throne, Sepulchral Guard, Necromancer and whight king on foot will stay, and the old  finecast models will be gone together with the units that are replaced. Given the rumours Nighthaunt and Arkan etc are now no longer available for Gravelords /LoN 2.0. I hope this also means that Nighthaunt can get some buff in the future, as I think some models were nerfed a bit, because they were to strong in LoN. 

Kragnos, excellent model...although having a bit of trouble seeing him next to the current destruction forces. Very different Aesthetics. I will probably not select him for my BCR. Wonder what it will mean for BoC at some point. With AOS 3.0 Destruction focussed, we probably can expect 2 or 3 new destruction armies over time. One most likely comes with the release of 3.0. But I can imagine that moving BoC to Destruction is a valid option at some point. I know that some or many people like them to stay Chaos, but I think they are in a bit weird position where they fit Chaos, but at the same time also fit into Destruction in many ways. At least it would solve the issue that Destruction is a bit one sided with mostly greenskins, and also gives Kragnos an army that fits his Aesthetics. For the BoC players that hate the idea of BoC being Destruction, see it from the bright sight, that when BoC would indeed be turned into a new destruction faction, you probably get a lot of love, and new models to look out for.

 

 

[SunStorm]

6 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

RE: Endless Spells and terrain, there's also the consideration that these were manufactured in China, and the issues with that and global logistics for GW have been highlighted in the last year and a half. Given how far in advance SBGL were clearly prepared that probably isn't a determining factor - though I suppose you could see the bow wave of GW getting burned by this with the Sylvaneth book - but will be a thing with factions/new releases in the near future, which would have been in development or production under covid.

Either way there are recently released/updated armies which don't have terrain or endless spells so I wouldn't hold onto SBGL being a guarantee or even an obvious absence. It really is a big release already.

Some people can't be pleased and will always bemoan what they miss rather than celebrate what they have. 

 

[Still-young]

23 minutes ago, Nos said:

They wont be

Why would GW release the same model twice, just in different packaging? That increases the price for *them* for no reason at all 

 

 

I mean, they do this quite often...

Indomitus, Soul Wars, Dark Imperium into different sized starters, Underworlds warbands into ones without the game stuff, Blackstone Fortress cultists from the expansion box to a box with just them. 
 

Plus we don’t know the reason for Cursed City disappearing. It may be that they can still produce and sell the models but it’s something else in the package that’s the issue. 

[sandlemad]

1 minute ago, SunStorm said:

Some people can't be pleased and will always bemoan what they miss rather than celebrate what they have.

I mean I'd rather have that than forced positivity throwing a blanket over particular criticisms of GW. If people don't like e.g. monstrous vampire-bat-centaurs (I'm iffy on them myself) or feel the absence of e.g. vampire infantry when stuff like the Vyrkos bloodborne were right there, that's ok. I don't think "SBGL didn't get enough kits" is a defensible argument but disliking the particulars or feeling like certain things were missed opportunities, that's perfectly legit

I'm more thinking here of folks looking at this release and believing that there's definitely more models to come or that this is somehow a partial update when there's really no reason to think that. There's no unexpectedly glaring absence here in the same vein as the complete lack of mortals with the first Hedonites wave or all the mentioned subfactions/generic characters that didn't appear in the first Lumineth wave.

[Gitzdee]

Spoiler

I am trying to find something in this picture and wanted to mention the single Boggleye Gobbapalooza model behind the Ardboyz. Couldnt really find anything else and i am still hoping i can run the single models somewhere in the future.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Lightbox said:

They did that with the models from the first starter set. Put them into start collectings.

That was a way of ensuring that models designed to get people into the hobby- a gateway drug, if you will- were still available 

That's also why other models from Starter sets get bundled into smaller releases, or the Mortal Realms magazine. If wee Jimmy or Julie are in the shop with mum or dad, it's much easier to convince their parents to part with £30 than £100.

But GW know those models will repay themselves many times over by bringing someone into the hobby. It's the cornerstone of how GW shop staff are measured- how much starter stuff did you sell.

As a result, masses of those models are produced. They're designed to be pushed and the output of them meets that. That's why Mortal Realns and the 40k equivalent exist. 

It is a completely different commercial approach to the rest of their products. 

[Feii]

45 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

I mean I'd rather have that than forced positivity throwing a blanket over particular criticisms of GW. If people don't like e.g. monstrous vampire-bat-centaurs (I'm iffy on them myself) or feel the absence of e.g. vampire infantry when stuff like the Vyrkos bloodborne were right there, that's ok. I don't think "SBGL didn't get enough kits" is a defensible argument but disliking the particulars or feeling like certain things were missed opportunities, that's perfectly legit

I'm more thinking here of folks looking at this release and believing that there's definitely more models to come or that this is somehow a partial update when there's really no reason to think that. There's no unexpectedly glaring absence here in the same vein as the complete lack of mortals with the first Hedonites wave or all the mentioned subfactions/generic characters that didn't appear in the first Lumineth wave.

If the rumours are true and you cannot take CC bad guys on their own but only as a group that is another massive letdown for me. Not because I own the CC I don't but because it is just a superficial model count at that point and they really don't count for me that way. It is one kit of 5-6 possible bad guys. 

Another thing is Kosargi Guard being keyworded to Radukar the wolf instead of just Radukar. 

It just points to the Bin writer. (I hope not)

[Nos]

57 minutes ago, Still-young said:

I mean, they do this quite often...

Indomitus, Soul Wars, Dark Imperium into different sized starters, Underworlds warbands into ones without the game stuff, Blackstone Fortress cultists from the expansion box to a box with just them. 
 

Plus we don’t know the reason for Cursed City disappearing. It may be that they can still produce and sell the models but it’s something else in the package that’s the issue. 

As above- the things you're mentioning which are re-boxed are marketed as beginner friendly. The cost of repackaging them is easily met by the value they being by getting new hobbyists through the doors

Notably re CC, the repackaging of Escalation figures and Underworld warbands is minus the card components. This to me confirms the pretty well established fact that GW does not have as much financial control over those components.

Add to that the fact that there is a global shortage of card production right now due to the unprecedented consumption of it last year, something GW are unlikely to have foreseen when initially designing CC, and a similarly massive jump in the cost of importing it, it is my *opinion*- note that word-  that CC is not going to be able to justify its costs in the present climate. 

Whereas as I've said, repackaging minis GW can easily produce and use to bring in new consumers is eminently cost effective.

GW is a FTSE 250 company. Everything they do is based on profit and commercial  sustainability. Thats it. You dont need to read the rules or look deep. They thrive and profit because they make good, ruthless business decisions. They arent sentimental. 

The only thing that will determine CC's viability is if it can justify making money. And there is very good reason at present to deduce from the wider economic climate and GW's behaviour around the whole thing that it's not something they are commercially interested or invested in at this present time. 

[Kadeton]

7 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Considering how big this center piece is it begs the question why the mortarch vampires aren’t that big. Honestly seems like bad design choice.

I don't understand how that follows. The Mortarchs wield enormous power, but they don't need to be physically large to do so. This seems similar to asking: If Jeff Bezos is so rich, why isn't he built like Hafthor Bjornsson?

Anyway, Nagadron was destroyed and Arkhan is dead so I'm not sure that the Mortarch kit can really be considered "current". I would presume the vampire Mortarchs will get a model update at some point.

[Nos]

19 minutes ago, Feii said:

If the rumours are true and you cannot take CC bad guys on their own but only as a group that is another massive letdown for me. Not because I own the CC I don't but because it is just a superficial model count at that point and they really don't count for me that way. It is one kit of 5-6 possible bad guys. 

Another thing is Kosargi Guard being keyworded to Radukar the wolf instead of just Radukar. 

It just points to the Bin writer. (I hope not)

I could be wrong but I think all Underworld Warbands have to be fielded as a group. They're not designed for AOS. Their war scrolls are just a bonus. There's nothing to stop people proxying models if both players agree.

Radukar the Wolf as keyword rather suggests that Radukar the Beast was always intended as a separate entity. I dont think it's a Morarhi scenario. I think Radukar was designed for a different game, which has warscrolls as a bonus. I dont think he as Wolf will be in SGL. 

Also if you look at The Beast- he bears a lot of resemblance to the new AOS diorama/vignette style Lord, who have warscrolls that account for all the dudes on the base. Whereas in CC every unit is an individual with an individual profile.

 

 

 

[Deakz28]

I think.... destruction has finally swayed me... mega vagrants almost took me but now I know what’s after soulblight... think I’m going to paint Kragnos with a more eshin  grey/charcoal black skin/fur tone, keep the red fur otherwise, think it’ll give a more menacing vibe! Absolutely blown away last night by the vamp reveals and kragnos! Thought there would be more but can’t complain! Super cool stuff coming our way! 

[Feii]

Just now, Nos said:

I could be wrong but I think all Underworld Warbands have to be fielded as a group. They're not designed for AOS. Their war scrolls are just a bonus. There's nothing to stop people proxying models if both players agree.

Radukar the Wolf as keyword rather suggests that Radukar the Beast was always intended as a separate entity. I dont think it's a Morarhi scenario. I think Radukar was designed for a different game, which has warscrolls as a bonus. I dont think he as Wolf will be in SGL. 

Also if you look at The Beast- he bears a lot of resemblance to the new AOS diorama/vignette style Lord, who have warscrolls that account for all the dudes on the base. Whereas in CC every unit is an individual with an individual profile.

 

 

 

CC models do have standalone AoS warscrolls and were marketed that way, noboody said that yeah they are getting AoS warscrolls but you cna only play them together which is another rule. Warbands have the rule on their warscroll CC models don't.