The Rumour Thread

[Nos]

20 minutes ago, wayniac said:

It's interesting that this is going to be the final broken realms because that would mean several factions are not getting anything before 3.0. They did say it would affect every army but apparently it seems like half the factions are being ignored

I took that as the usual Community page hyperbole

Every other release or book is going to "shake up the Broken Realms forever" etc

Every army has been affected by Broken Realms in that all of the events have an impact on the world they inhabit. I think that's what they meant.

[xking]

2 hours ago, Eulailah said:

Not only that, it´s also confirmed to be the last BR book

Sad

[King Under the Mountain]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

Okay, now I don't know if anyone feels me, but

... what if there is no Malerion faction, and there won't be one? Up until now we didn't really get a glimpse of Shadow Aelves except maybe Khainite Shadowstalkers. Morathi and her Melusai use the Lore of Shadows. The shadowy, winged agent who freed Van Brecht turned out to be one of Be'lakor's agents.

We know that Malerion wasn't too fond of his mother in the beginning, but he didn't excactly stop her though he must have been aware. What if Malerion came too admire her cunning, proactive ways once again, as he did in the World that Was?

There will be a Malerion model, but I think he might come as part of a Broken Realms volume, and then be attached to Daughters of Khaine, maybe even renaming the faction to Umbraneth Shadowkin or something like that. Similar to what they did with Be'lakor in StD. He might even bring one or two units, but I don't know if there's enough for a whole new faction, considering that Order is already quite overblown.

I'm 50/50 about the likely hood of this (lame response I know).

Daughters of Khaine was released during the early line up of AoS Factions, when GW seemed to be doing the approach of smaller armies with few unit variance (Fyreslayers are a relic of this concept).  But I believe GW has been moving more towards larger armies with plenty of unique units. 

I think combining Malerion's Elves into the DoK would make an easy way to expand the line. 

Additionally with two entire armies being largely themed "Elves from Ulga", would lead to them sharing many concepts.  

On the other hand I've been wrong with so many AoS predictions, on top of GW seems to love making Elf factions... so who knows. 

[IronHelmet]

 

 

Frail...bloodstain...exosit...

Flagellants are coming!

[Boar]

3 minutes ago, IronHelmet said:

Frail...bloodstain...exosit...

Flagellants are coming!

You mean Sisters of Battle?

[Indecisive]

1 hour ago, King Under the Mountain said:

I'm 50/50 about the likely hood of this (lame response I know).

Daughters of Khaine was released during the early line up of AoS Factions, when GW seemed to be doing the approach of smaller armies with few unit variance (Fyreslayers are a relic of this concept).  But I believe GW has been moving more towards larger armies with plenty of unique units. 

I think combining Malerion's Elves into the DoK would make an easy way to expand the line. 

Additionally with two entire armies being largely themed "Elves from Ulga", would lead to them sharing many concepts.  

On the other hand I've been wrong with so many AoS predictions, on top of GW seems to love making Elf factions... so who knows. 

I'd definitely like some elf souping.

[DoctorPerils]

3 hours ago, King Under the Mountain said:

I'm 50/50 about the likely hood of this (lame response I know).

Daughters of Khaine was released during the early line up of AoS Factions, when GW seemed to be doing the approach of smaller armies with few unit variance (Fyreslayers are a relic of this concept).  But I believe GW has been moving more towards larger armies with plenty of unique units. 

I think combining Malerion's Elves into the DoK would make an easy way to expand the line. 

Additionally with two entire armies being largely themed "Elves from Ulga", would lead to them sharing many concepts.  

On the other hand I've been wrong with so many AoS predictions, on top of GW seems to love making Elf factions... so who knows. 

While I think this the most likely (that or Malerion join GA Chaos upon release), I do wish they mixed up some of these factions rather than keep them in the same configuration as the old world. Like rather than make Battletome Dark Elves of Sigmar, have the daughters of khaine be joined by soulblight; a chaos undead faction in the vein of krell; a human destruction faction that doesn't look like barbarians...

In a way, take the approach chaos Dwarves did, by moving a traditional "lawful good" race into the evil spectrum, and have them rule over a faction of their traditional enemies. Have fun breaking the stereotypes and create new characterful stuff

(Unrelated, but I think they could have some fun with moving Cities of Sigmar out of GA Order, and making them alliable into any of the grand alliances - this could give rise to the cult of nagash faction idea, or the old wood elf units in a Destruction wild Hunt style deal)

[Hashut]

I honestly hope they get rid of grand alliances. To my mind, they’re more limiting than anything, and they seem to matter less and less in recent fluff. 

[BrownDog]

I hope the grand alliances stay. Morathi's betrayal is interesting because of them. And all the interesting interplay of these factions that have their own interests but are trying to work together is a great narrative/game devise. Removing that so they're just different groups fighting seems kinda boring.

[KriticalKhan]

26 minutes ago, BrownDog said:

I hope the grand alliances stay. Morathi's betrayal is interesting because of them. And all the interesting interplay of these factions that have their own interests but are trying to work together is a great narrative/game devise. Removing that so they're just different groups fighting seems kinda boring.

Removing GAs doesn't get rid of factions having allies, it just opens up more possibilities. Grand Alliances are 99% just a TT mechanic that's somewhat reflected in the lore, if the gameplay is open to more potential alliances and enemies, then the lore will reflect that since that's how GW creates their content.

[novakai]

1 minute ago, KriticalKhan said:

Removing GAs doesn't get rid of factions having allies, it just opens up more possibilities. Grand Alliances are 99% just a TT mechanic that's somewhat reflected in the lore, if the gameplay is open to more potential alliances and enemies, then the lore will reflect that since that's how GW creates their content.

well the GA system also keep GW balance on their releases as they use it cycle their release between each GA, just so if you favor a certain GA, you feel like you get stuff and not being left out.

 

it also a very lore tool for new players to get a grasp of the setting instead of 24 random armies yelling at each other with only thin directive or relationship with each other.

i also personally like it since it like an MMO Alliance vs Horde setting

[xking]

12 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

Removing GAs doesn't get rid of factions having allies, it just opens up more possibilities. Grand Alliances are 99% just a TT mechanic that's somewhat reflected in the lore, if the gameplay is open to more potential alliances and enemies, then the lore will reflect that since that's how GW creates their content.

Grand alliances, are intrinsically a part of age of Sigmar's lore,rules and identity. They are not likely to go away.     

The AoS soulbound RPG also incorporates and builds upon the lore  of grand alliances.

Edited May 2, 2021 by xking

[KriticalKhan]

1 minute ago, novakai said:

well the GA system also keep GW balance on their releases as they use it cycle their release between each GA, just so if you favor a certain GA, you feel like you get stuff and not being left out.

 

it also a very lore tool for new players to get a grasp of the setting instead of 24 random armies yelling at each other with only thin directive or relationship with each other.

i also personally like it since it like an MMO Alliance vs Horde setting

That's the same argument people use to justify stuff like Eldar not getting any updates because "Xenos are supported, just look at Necrons!" An update for Ogres does nothing for Orcs, and because of the system you get people complaining about Order being "bloated" when half the factions in it can't even interact with each other or Destruction being "under supported" as if adding a new army under that tag is going to fix the lack of updates the others get.

It's useful as what it is and what you said: an easy way of grouping armies so that people can tell what "sides" they're on, but it hasn't been anything else since the GHB dropped and GW stopped updating GA books.

4 minutes ago, xking said:

Grand alliances, are intrinsically a part of age of Sigmar's lore,rules and identity. They are not likely to go away.  

We already have an entire narrative event about them being fractured and lessened in focus, and multiple armies have rules that let them cross over between GAs as allies and mercenaries. The entire system isn't nearly as relevant as it used to be, and if GW wanted to, they could scrap the entire concept without fundamentally changing anything.

[xking]

1 minute ago, KriticalKhan said:

That's the same argument people use to justify stuff like Eldar not getting any updates because "Xenos are supported, just look at Necrons!" An update for Ogres does nothing for Orcs, and because of the system you get people complaining about Order being "bloated" when half the factions in it can't even interact with each other or Destruction being "under supported" as if adding a new army under that tag is going to fix the lack of updates the others get.

It's useful as what it is and what you said: an easy way of grouping armies so that people can tell what "sides" they're on, but it hasn't been anything else since the GHB dropped and GW stopped updating GA books.

We already have an entire narrative event about them being fractured and lessened in focus, and multiple armies have rules that let them cross over between GAs as allies and mercenaries. The entire system isn't nearly as relevant as it used to be, and if GW wanted to, they could scrap the entire concept without fundamentally changing anything.

In fighting does not mean broken, both chaos and destruction in fight all the time. But they are both United in overall philosophy and goals.  Like I said they are a part of age of Sigmar's identity, just like the Imperium is part of 40K is identity. Also the soulbound RPG incorporates and builds upon the grand alliances. 

[KriticalKhan]

2 minutes ago, xking said:

In fighting does not mean broken, both chaos and destruction in fight all the time. But they are both United in overall philosophy and goals.  Like I said they are a part of age of Sigmar's identity, just like the Imperium is part of 40K is identity. Also the soulbound RPG incorporates and builds upon the grand alliances. 

And I'm trying to say that you don't need an arbitrary system that limits who can ally with who to represent that. An Ally Matrix would accomplish everything that GAs do without requiring unique rules to bypass them like we have with mercenary factions right now

The Imperium doesn't work as a comparison since it's a distinct, recognized governing body in-universe. No one is AoS says that they "fight for Grand Alliance: Order." The closest you get are those who believe in Sigmar's old Pantheon, but half the members of Order were never even a part of it.

Rules-wise, the whole system is outdated and practically abandoned by GW; it's a vestigial aspect of AoS' earlier days and better off left there.

[Hashut]

I agree with KriticalKhan. I don’t think there is any real need to maintain them, and I suspect that we’re going to see them made less relevant, regardless of what’s in the rpg.

After the siege of Excelsis, I reckon the destruction side will splinter into rival groups along factional lines. We’ve already seen order start to break apart, and have further potential tensions introduced. Death is almost certainly splitting (but we have to wait and see what happens with the vamps). Chaos has always fought among themselves, and belakor adds yet more infighting  

Grand alliances seem more like a somewhat useful shorthand for explaining the motivations of the various factions. But I think that “alliance” indicates a much more cohesive and cooperative relationship than the “reality” of the setting. Allies don’t fight, if we’re using the ordinary meaning of the word. Factions within GAs do. 

[novakai]

5 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

That's the same argument people use to justify stuff like Eldar not getting any updates because "Xenos are supported, just look at Necrons!" An update for Ogres does nothing for Orcs, and because of the system you get people complaining about Order being "bloated" when half the factions in it can't even interact with each other or Destruction being "under supported" as if adding a new army under that tag is going to fix the lack of updates the others get.

 

 i mean your also comparing it to the game that is infamously known to have a release parity and favoritism problem anyway.

But they have cycle through the GA releases very neatly too every since Gitz have been releases, and death and Destruction homer have like it very much

and i think they will bring back GA soup style armies similar to COS and Chaos Ascendant, it just that LON didn't age well and Destruction just simply never got one.

[Ratboy genius]

16 minutes ago, novakai said:

 But they have cycle through the GA releases very neatly too every since Gitz have been releases, and death and Destruction homer have like it very much

I'm not sure what you're saying here

[xking]

1 hour ago, KriticalKhan said:

And I'm trying to say that you don't need an arbitrary system that limits who can ally with who to represent that. An Ally Matrix would accomplish everything that GAs do without requiring unique rules to bypass them like we have with mercenary factions right now

The Imperium doesn't work as a comparison since it's a distinct, recognized governing body in-universe. No one is AoS says that they "fight for Grand Alliance: Order." The closest you get are those who believe in Sigmar's old Pantheon, but half the members of Order were never even a part of it.

Rules-wise, the whole system is outdated and practically abandoned by GW; it's a vestigial aspect of AoS' earlier days and better off left there.

It's unlikely that they're going away, and they do view themselves as an alliance, otherwise the hallowed Knights would not have been enraged at the seraphon in broken realms. look lumineth just had a new unit released that can join any order Army, so they are still doing things rule wise with grand alliances, and most likely will continue doing so. Grand alliances are a part of age of Sigmar has identity, and are supported in the main game of age of Sigmar and the aos soulbound RPG. They are most likely going to stay around.

But I will concede you this, could they go away, maybe. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by xking

[Indecisive]

GA's are just the super obvious categorization. All the Chaos goes here, all the Death things go over here. Then all the folks who don't like Chaos or being dead, as well as like buildings are grouped over there... And whoever is left goes into the 4th one, and coincidentally all worship aspects of G&M now.

[Chikout]

Grand alliances will never go away simply because they are a very convenient way of organising things on the webstore. It also serves as an easy primer for newcomers.

In terms of allies we have already broken the bounds of the grand alliances with sons of Behemat. 

I do find the obsession with grand alliances balance a bit tiresome though. If the designers discover a rich vein of creativity as they seem to have done with the Lumineth Gw shouldn't stop them just to balance the quota. 

Also there has been a fairly good balance of releases this edition. 8 armies got more than 10 new kits: gloomspite, nighthaunt, Stormcast, lumineth, obr, Slaanesh, slaves to darkness, and the forthcoming Soulblight.

If we look at what's lacking it's regular humans, Orruk destruction and Duardin.

Hopefully we will see that addressed soon. 

In first edition people complained about the lack of Aelves, now we have lots. Then people complained about the lack of Death, now we have lots. Recently there have been complaints about the lack of destruction. It looks highly likely that will be addressed in the new edition. 

 

Gw want to get around to everything but it takes time and this is a game they want to support for the next 30 years. 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Chikout

[baiardo]

10 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Grand alliances will never go away simply because they are a very convenient way of organising things on the webstore. It also serves as an easy primer for newcomers.

In terms of allies we have already broken the bounds of the grand alliances with sons of Behemat. 

I do find the obsession with grand alliances balance a bit tiresome though. If the designers discover a rich vein of creativity as they seem to have done with the Lumineth Gw shouldn't stop them just to balance the quota. 

Also there has been a fairly good balance of releases this edition. 8 armies got more than 10 new kits: gloomspite, nighthaunt, Stormcast, lumineth, obr, Slaanesh, slaves to darkness, and the forthcoming Soulblight.

If we look at what's lacking it's regular humans, Orruk destruction and Duardin.

Hopefully we will see that addressed soon. 

In first edition people complained about the lack of Aelves, now we have lots. Then people complained about the lack of Death, now we have lots. Recently there have been complaints about the lack of destruction. It looks highly likely that will be addressed in the new edition. 

 

Gw want to get around to everything but it takes time and this is a game they want to support for the next 30 years. 

 

 

New destruction faction going to be released soon.

[swarmofseals]

7 hours ago, DoctorPerils said:

I do wish they mixed up some of these factions rather than keep them in the same configuration as the old world

As much as I prefer the Old World setting to the current one, I 100% agree with this.

Please give me Destruction Wood Elves, Order Vampires or Not-Tomb-Kings, etc.

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

An Ally Matrix would accomplish everything that GAs do without requiring unique rules to bypass them like we have with mercenary factions right now

That's a good point, because we already have that for Coalition of Death. 

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

Grand alliances will never go away simply because they are a very convenient way of organising things on the webstore. It also serves as an easy primer for newcomers.

Xenos armies are grouped too, even if they can't be allies. They can do the same for AoS, group all armies using their origin (Chaos, Order, Destru and Death) and then just use "an allied table".

[GrimDork]

Don’t get rid of the grand alliances, we’ll have to rename the forum😂