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20 minutes ago, Beliman said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/24/when-nagash-comes-knocking-theres-no-better-bodyguard-than-a-vanari-bladelord/

New rules for Lumineth.

I like that we have another auto-hit weapon and it seems to have low dmg overall?
Being sunmetal weapons, I expect to see a 6+ mw (5+ with power-up).

To put the power of these guys into perspective, Perfect Strike is a worse attack profile than Freeguild Greatswords get (although with 1" more range), and those are not exactly gamebreaking.

Flurry of Blows is better than Perfect Strike against low-armour targets if you get more two attacks. Better against 4+ saves at 3+ attacks. If this attack mode gets mortals on 6s to hit, it's just going to be better pretty much anytime you are not fighting a single model.

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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I've been working on a spreadsheet for warscrolls, what kit makes them, and the material/age of the kit to try and figure out what armies need updating the most and heres a rough overview of what ive

Am I the only one mad the OBR are getting regular archers? GW had the opportunity to create a unit called Crossbonemen and they didn't take it.

So they edited that article huh

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3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To put the power of these guys into perspective, Perfect Strike is a worse attack profile than Freeguild Greatswords get (although with 1" more range), and those are not exactly gamebreaking.

Psh... give them the statline of a Gnoblar and the points cost of a Retributor and I would still play them if I jump into LRL. 😆

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30 minutes ago, Beliman said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/24/when-nagash-comes-knocking-theres-no-better-bodyguard-than-a-vanari-bladelord/

New rules for Lumineth.

I like that we have another auto-hit weapon and it seems to have low dmg overall?
Being sunmetal weapons, I expect to see a 6+ mw (5+ with power-up).

It's insane, was someone who was very much offended by the pointy ears treatment in End Times put in charge of this hot garbage? I'll say it now but LRL seem beyond Pre-nerf Petrifex level of broken.  For the record I never though Petrifex were but that's another story.  Based on this SGL should be absolutely barmy.

Although I hasten to add points cost will be a crucial thing with these. God I'm sick of Aelves, can't we have some Orruks, Duaridin or even  Skaven?

Edited by El Syf
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1 minute ago, Neverchosen said:

Psh... give them the statline of a Gnoblar and the points cost of a Retributor and I would still play them if I jump into LRL. 😆

This is entirely fair and appropriate.

I'm really excited for all our Lumineth friends with all the cool new models they will get to play with in a few weeks.

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10 minutes ago, El Syf said:

It's insane, was someone who was very much offended by the pointy ears treatment in End Times put in charge of this hot garbage? I'll say it now but LRL seem beyond Pre-nerf Petrifex level of broken.  For the record I never though Petrifex were but that's another story.  Based on this SGL should be absolutely barmy.

Although I hasten to add points cost will be a crucial thing with these. God I'm sick of Aelves, can't we have some Orruks, Duaridin or even  Skaven?

...based on what they have shown this unit is quite poor actually. I'm not getting the outrage. 

@Neverchosen they are insanely cool models though. I might buy a box just to make some custom High Wardens

Edited by whispersofblood
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I always have mixed feelings reading such profiles. On the one side: Damn cool rule that shows how good they are. On the other side it is gamedesign that removes interactions (in this case by providing 50% magic immunity as well as beeing able to ignore to-hit-modifier as well as many save rolls). AoS has already a huge issue with interaction between armies in my opinion as many factions allow to build a deathstar that simply plows through, regardless of what oppentn you play against.  

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Appart from Sunmetal Weapons (6+ hit= mw, with Power of Hysh 5+=mw) and being -1 hit if they remain with Shinning Company, what we are going to expect about them? 2 wounds with 4+ save?

As a KO player, I will laught when one of this units hits me with 11-21 attacks for each Vanari Bladelord model targeting my skyvessels full of my stuntys.

Edited by Beliman
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25 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

To put the power of these guys into perspective, Perfect Strike is a worse attack profile than Freeguild Greatswords get (although with 1" more range), and those are not exactly gamebreaking.

Flurry of Blows is better than Perfect Strike against low-armour targets if you get more two attacks. Better against 4+ saves at 3+ attacks. If this attack mode gets mortals on 6s to hit, it's just going to be better pretty much anytime you are not fighting a single model.

Thanks for the numbers, i know people are calling me crazy because blademasters are "OP" 'cause of the autohit

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By Sigmar, this is terrible. These new Lumineth are so OP and NPE! Can pile out? Automatic hits? Weapon profiles with a single attack and 1 damage? They’re going to tickle me to death! The NPE is unbearable!

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They are mages(every useless mage with 0 skills only for cast one spell allready cost 80+)

They have two options of weapons:

1-does around 4 damage with 2 rend 

2-vs a horde unit easily they can do 6 attack each model,that is 30 attacks. For a total of 13 damage and 5 mortals wound!!!(or 10 mortals selfbuffed)

Also likely gonna be 10 wounds with save 4 and -1 to be hit ignoring spells with 4+

This unit cant cost less than 180 and even then they are veeeery powerfull

Edited by Doko
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Just now, Doko said:

They seems so broken omg.

They are mages(every useless mage with 0 skills only for cast one spell allready cost 80+)

They have two options of weapons:

1-does around 4 damage with 2 rend and 1 mortal wound

2-vs a horde unit easily they can do 6 attack each model,that is 30 attacks. For a total of 13 damage and 5 mortals wound!!!

This unit cant cost less than 180 and even then they are veeeery powerfull

I'm sorry, I can't tell are you being Sarcastic right now? They can't get MWs with Focused Strike, btw.

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27 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Psh... give them the statline of a Gnoblar and the points cost of a Retributor and I would still play them if I jump into LRL. 😆

And people would probably still want them nerfed.

 

but yeah, these guys (and the loreseeker) are instant buys for me 

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Like always elf haters overcriying about them, despite numbers show they arent even cloose there.

 

Same with this, less than half any elite unit or maybe 3-4 atacks with bad stats... They would be okish at 10 man unit, being 5 and im sure for 120 or so... They will be as bad as mountain hammers dudes are

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25 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

...based on what they have shown this unit is quite poor actually. I'm not getting the outrage.

They don't look bad, but they certainly don't look good either. At the moment, Stoneguard look better, but it's too early to call anything. We still need to see their other stats, points, base size and synergies. But outrage is definitely unwarranted at this point.

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33 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Appart from Sunmetal Weapons (6+ hit= mw, with Power of Hysh 5+=mw) and being -1 hit if they remain with Shinning Company, what we are going to expect about them? 2 wounds with 4+ save?

As a KO player, I will laught when one of this units hits me with 11-21 attacks for each Vanari Bladelord model targeting my skyvessels full of my stuntys.

Maybe some guarding abilities for mages, as they have pointed that out several times now. I thought re-rolling saves against missiles, but with the anti-magic, not sure about that anymore. Maybe being able to stay in shining while running and charging? Otherwise, maybe something that increases their damage temporarily. A Warscroll spell? 

But it could also be just that. Sunmetal weapons, spells and the Vanari abilities. Because they have Sunmetal Greatswords, maybe those deal mortals on a 5+, 4 if you cast the spell? 

Edited by LuminethMage
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42 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

...based on what they have shown this unit is quite poor actually. I'm not getting the outrage. 

@Neverchosen they are insanely cool models though. I might buy a box just to make some custom High Wardens

I'm out of touch regarding meta; I only ever play against Sylvaneth, Cities, and Nighthaunt. So yeah I may have read the profiles and over reacted somewhat. apologies.

Edited by El Syf
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8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

They don't look bad, but they certainly don't look good either. At the moment, Stoneguard look better, but it's too early to call anything. We still need to see their other stats, points, base size and synergies. But outrage is definitely unwarranted at this point.

To be honest, stoneguard are better because we know all support they are capable to absorb, maybe we have a cool battalion for blademasters, maybe sone nice tricks with bannerlord or an ability we don't know.

But, unless hurakans that look pretty cool, the 3 partial warscrolls we already know are just bad.

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25 minutes ago, madmac said:

I'm sorry, I can't tell are you being Sarcastic right now? They can't get MWs with Focused Strike, btw

Thank for the note.

And yes im being sarcastic.....

Because they have the same profile than fyreslayers hearthguard berzerkers poleaxes(2 attacks at 3\3\0\1 doing 2 mortals with 6 that is 100% the same than doing 1 mortal with 5+) doing only 2 attacks with 2 models at 2".

 

It is imposible even fighting vs a small unit of 10 models dont have 3 models at 2". So with 3 attacks eack they do a 50% more damage than fyreslayers.

So fyreslayers cost 120 and arent mages

New swordmasters are mage and have the same damage than fyreslayers with only 2 models at range,and then the damage increase a 50% for each extra model at range.

And fyreslayer are one of the best unit of the game.

So people saying they are bad dont have done the maths or i dont get how a fyreslayers poleaxes unit that does extra 50% damage for each model at range and is mage is called weak

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2 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Where things could potentially change is if there are ways to increase the attack characteristic of these guys. Maybe from the Vanari Bannerblade, similar to what a Bloodsecrator does for Khorne. 

 

The problem is that bannerlord should be tied to blademasters if they want him to do that, because if not, wardens with 3 attacks are just the best unit in the game.

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I sure hope there wont be any +1 attack command to buff these guys 😛 

Their defensive capability and point cost will of course be so major a factor it is impossible to judge the bladelords right now.

We do know they benefit from the usual stuff vanari gets, so that is already nice as we know, melee units also just becomes better by being in a faction with 2 activations at once in combat.

They will probably be faster than stoneguard, but hard to say if they also got 2 wounds. They are both flexible and reliable though, so unlike dawnriders they are good against both hordes and elites. Having a flat 4+ ignore spells ability is not bad at all either, although I do not really like too many of these mechanics, Lumineth are already really dominant with magic, so this seems to add insult to injury to any poor sod trying to play their wizards against a lumineth player.

I will say the new rules are at least somewhat inventive, unlike the recent Slaanesh and DoK which did not really add a single original idea. I dare say the current "meta" lists of Lumineth can not really get any worse to play against regarding NPE, it is just a miserable experience with some armies. "It can't get any worse" is a lot bar though ;)

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The article emphasizes their role as guards so I assume they will be somewhat more defensive than your average Aelf maybe an extra wound or a better save. Hopefully if they do have a good defensive stat it is not in a way that makes Stoneguard feel redundant.  Maybe 1 wound and a 3+ save to make the two wounds of the Stoneguard fill a different niche of 'toughness' or maybe they have an agility based 6+ FNP save? 

@Scurvydog beat me to it with a much better post. 🙃

Edited by Neverchosen
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3 minutes ago, El Syf said:

I'm out of touch regarding meta; I only ever play against Sylvaneth, Cities, and Nighthaunt. So yeah I may have read the profiles and over reacted somewhat. 

For context, then, their "Flurry of Blows" attacks are exactly the same as Stormcast Decimators, except Decimators have rend -1 on the profile (so they're better). And Decimators are a garbage unit that's never taken in even semi-competitive lists.

And the Perfect Strike is worse. Even auto-hitting with rend -2, a single attack at damage 1 per model (for a unit of 5, no less) is terrible.

If they get mortal wounds on 6s, that'd certainly make the Flurry of Blows a better option - but since they designed the Perfect Strike to not have a hit roll, I'm wondering if they'll have some other ability instead. Regardless, the profile right now looks worse than the current Wardens. The people pulling out torches and pitchforks over this are being completely irrational.

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5 minutes ago, l1censetochill said:

For context, then, their "Flurry of Blows" attacks are exactly the same as Stormcast Decimators, except Decimators have rend -1 on the profile (so they're better). And Decimators are a garbage unit that's never taken in even semi-competitive lists.

For context,swordmasters are mage,have -1 to hit and ignore spells at 4+ ohhh and a "little detaill" of does mortals with 5+.

So yes decimator are worse in every aspect than swordmasters and cost 170 where seeing the lumineths cost this unit likely gonna be 100\120

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