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I mean folks are just proving my point that AoS  is good once you read around it, GW have always been quite good at putting a spin on classic tropes once you get past the surface but the Old World was at inception fairly unique in its mix of low fantasy renaissance stuff, though its obviously been influential for a long time now. 

The first look at AoS these days is Golden armoured paladins v ghosts or barbarians, i dont see how anyone could say that isnt replicated a dozen times on some level. 

But, as i also said, GW is making good progress on changing that up i think.  

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Since the original alliance of the AoS gods, I feel GW didn't know what to do with the destruction armies. The problem with "Destruction" as a faction, is that it pigeonholes the entire faction into a repetitive roll. "Order" and "Chaos" imply sophisticated  levels of morality and organization, and within those you can have a myriad off varying agendas, and hence, army types. Death gives you the finality that the universe will someday end, but your free to do just about anything leading up to that end, and it can freely ally/oppose Order and Chaos as it sees fit. The concept of "Destruction" feels like a disorganized mob, which conceptually that role could have easily been covered by Chaos.

I feel Destruction should have been portrayed as the mirror opposite of death. You'd have Order/Chaos as opposing forces, and then Perhaps "Life" (or Vitality, etc) and Death as Mirrorfactions. Put in all the s factions that live more in tune with nature. Sylvaneth's forces, Kurnothi, Savage Orruks, and even gloomspite. Anything that reproducers fast like the various goblin races and the silent ones/insectoid race. And go with a savage faction that's less about big cities, and more nomadic, which would give you orks, ogors and even human barbarians. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

It's funny to me that this is such a common sentiment.  The Old World is literally Europe with Elves and Wizards.  AoS is so weird you can't even describe it with words or pictures in a concise way that makes sense.

And that's a bit of a problem when you're trying to get people invested in it.

It's easier to latch onto something you're familiar with, so when you introduce WHFB as "renaissance Europe with elves and dinosaur people" it's easier for someone to grasp and comprehend. That "literally just earth" part gives a baseline for people to work off of and understand, so when you introduce the stranger elements, there's something familiar to compare them with.

With AoS, you have to start from the ground up and explain the (not-very-well-defined) cosmology and inter-dimensional travel systems in order for the story to make any sense.

The other two settings have a "hook" or an elevator pitch, if you're familiar with the term. To introduce someone to WHFB, you just have to say, "Tolkien, but turned up to 11. Also, the humans have guns."

40k is "Pseudo-Catholic totalitarian empire fights a losing battle against classic fantasy races and unimaginable horrors, but IN SPACE."

With AoS it's "So there are these things called realms, which are kind of like flat planets but not really, and they're made out of magic and you have to use realmgates to travel  between them, but..."

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12 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I mean folks are just proving my point that AoS  is good once you read around it, GW have always been quite good at putting a spin on classic tropes once you get past the surface but the Old World was at inception fairly unique in its mix of low fantasy renaissance stuff, though its obviously been influential for a long time now. 

The first look at AoS these days is Golden armoured paladins v ghosts or barbarians, i dont see how anyone could say that isnt replicated a dozen times on some level. 

But, as i also said, GW is making good progress on changing that up i think.  

I agree with you mostly, but my nitpicky counterpoint was that for me the visual appeal of AOS was immediate.  It took no more than one look to get hooked.  Lots of games do the first-look well, but I really feel AOS does it the best from packaging to minis or entry points.  I realize this is an anecdote of just one person (me), but I've never looked at the whole package of Warmachine and thought, "Dang I want that".  I think some of their stuff looks cool, but the packaging and entry points are all wrong to me.  I got into Star Wars Legion because it also does well on entry points, packaging and (nowadays) models.  Same with Song of Ice and Fire.  They're all super appealing and I'm sucker for a good initial presentation (as I believe many are).   Where AOS really stood out from the crowd to me and kept me interested was that the depth of the game was to the right point (not so ridiculous that my wife was intimidated, but deep enough to really get into) and it's been excellently supported for as long as I've played it, which is 2018 to now.

On the other hand, I've always had a harder time with 40k because the presentation and packaging wasn't nearly as good.  With 9th edition they did get a lot better at the entry points though and I love Necrons so I picked up a few of those.  I haven't really tried the gameplay as much though and haven't bought nearly as much because my wife's chosen army (Thousand Sons) doesn't have a new book yet and my friends that play would all rather play AOS which I'm totally happy with!

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43 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

And that's a bit of a problem when you're trying to get people invested in it.

It's easier to latch onto something you're familiar with, so when you introduce WHFB as "renaissance Europe with elves and dinosaur people" it's easier for someone to grasp and comprehend. That "literally just earth" part gives a baseline for people to work off of and understand, so when you introduce the stranger elements, there's something familiar to compare them with.

With AoS, you have to start from the ground up and explain the (not-very-well-defined) cosmology and inter-dimensional travel systems in order for the story to make any sense.

The other two settings have a "hook" or an elevator pitch, if you're familiar with the term. To introduce someone to WHFB, you just have to say, "Tolkien, but turned up to 11. Also, the humans have guns."

40k is "Pseudo-Catholic totalitarian empire fights a losing battle against classic fantasy races and unimaginable horrors, but IN SPACE."

With AoS it's "So there are these things called realms, which are kind of like flat planets but not really, and they're made out of magic and you have to use realmgates to travel  between them, but..."

Yes, this is more or less my point as well. 

AoS isn't generic, it's waaaay off the spectrum on the opposite side from generic.  You need star charts and diagrams and paragraphs to "sum up" the Mortal Realms.

Old World (which I loved and still love) is very generic (in the best "generic = accessible" way), and with about a dozen words you can more or less sum it up entirely - setting and tone all at once.  "Grimdark, mirrors Europe/Earth, fantasy races in the Tolkien tradition plus some oddballs."

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20 minutes ago, Percivael said:

So has anyone got any rumours?

Anyone want to talk about the theory going around that Malekith is dead and possibly never existed at all? I'm still  suspicious of that WarCom article that implied so at the end. Along with Be'Lakor coming in and Morathi eating up most of the classic Dark Elves' old niches (in-universe and out), I'm not really sure where Malekith would fit in anymore.

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7 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

Anyone want to talk about the theory going around that Malekith is dead and possibly never existed at all? I'm still  suspicious of that WarCom article that implied so at the end. Along with Be'Lakor coming in and Morathi eating up most of the classic Dark Elves' old niches (in-universe and out), I'm not really sure where Malekith would fit in anymore.

Did we ever get a steer on where the Tenebrael Shard and Mistweaver Saih would fit in?

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33 minutes ago, Percivael said:

So has anyone got any rumours?

I believe that after near six years of teasing GW is gonna bring back the Chaos Dwarfs as The Furnace Kings, and that they're whole thing is gonna be the guys who make all sorts of daemonic abominations(like the Gilt Menagerie mentioned in the Hedonites battle tome). 

 

3 minutes ago, SlyRebirth said:

Did we ever get a steer on where the Tenebrael Shard and Mistweaver Saih would fit in?

No, no we do not know yet. 

Edited by Loyal Son of Khemri
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9 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

Anyone want to talk about the theory going around that Malekith is dead and possibly never existed at all? I'm still  suspicious of that WarCom article that implied so at the end. Along with Be'Lakor coming in and Morathi eating up most of the classic Dark Elves' old niches (in-universe and out), I'm not really sure where Malekith would fit in anymore.

Might be a red herring, as they are hinting at that in a very obvious way. There was also a Malign  Portents' short story where we could see Malerion along his mother talking about stuff (sadly, it can't be read for free anymore). Even if Be'lakor was impersonating him (the most likely scenario if Malerion is really dead) would he be able to deceive his own mother, the thousands-old schemer Morathi?

Of course GW can explain that if they really want. It would be a really bold move to kill the old dark elf king, as Malekith is a fan-favorite....but potentially very interesting. And people would stop fearing the release of another aelf faction!

 

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Just now, Jator said:

Might be a red herring, as they are hinting at that in a very obvious way. There was also a Malign  Portents' short story where we could see Malerion along his mother talking about stuff (sadly, it can't be read for free anymore). Even if Be'lakor was impersonating him (the most likely scenario if Malerion is really dead) would he be able to deceive his own mother, the thousands-old schemer Morathi?

Of course GW can explain that if they really want. It would be a really bold move to kill the old dark elf king, as Malekith is a fan-favorite....but potentially very interesting. And people would stop fearing the release of another aelf faction!

 

I think that fear will stick around for a while, similar to people expecting stormcast to get a bunch of models any second now

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It would be super odd for Malerion to be dead.  I think if they went down that route that he would have been imprisoned by Belakor, but that seems unlikely.  The implication is basically that he is plotting in the shadows, similar to Nagash prior to the Soul Wars and creating an army in the shadows.

As for where the narrative goes, I think in Belakor we will find out that Belakor sent the skaven to disrupt Nagash's ritual, that he tipped Morathi towards using varanite for her ritual, and was involved in pushing Teclis to action.  I hope we find out how he escaped Alarielle's gem after the end times but not really expecting it.

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1 hour ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

I believe that after near six years of teasing GW is gonna bring back the Chaos Dwarfs as The Furnace Kings, and that they're whole thing is gonna be the guys who make all sorts of daemonic abominations(like the Gilt Menagerie mentioned in the Hedonites battle tome). 

 

No, no we do not know yet. 

I truly believe if they do end up expanding the Chaos Alliance by adding a new Faction who else could they add BUT Chaos Duardin? They're popping up more in lore and if we are to start getting heavy demonic machinery where else could it come from!?

As for Rumours I did read on Reddit (The most reliable source on the internet, trust him his dads uncles mate once worked with a bloke who worked with a guy who knew a woman who worked for Nintendo) that Ogor Mawtribes and Orruk Warclans would be getting a Gloomspite Gits level update in 3.0 with Orruks leading the charge. 

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2 hours ago, Marius au said:

It would be super odd for Malerion to be dead. 

Yeah, I'd kinda be disappointed if after all this build up, he's dead.  Particulary because  shadow elves we're the only ones I've been interested in, but I would be impressed by GW having the guts to kill off such a major character.

Edited by Me-dude-sa
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3 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

I think, bottom line, this article foreshadowed a ton of stuff we've seen come out since (and even some things that still aren't out). I think that:

1. That's incredibly cool!

2. Given how much it has foreshadowed, I think the Malerion bit hints at something. I'm not saying its a nail in the coffin for him. But I think it must allude to something we'll see play out eventually.

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8 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

Anyone want to talk about the theory going around that Malekith is dead and possibly never existed at all? I'm still  suspicious of that WarCom article that implied so at the end. Along with Be'Lakor coming in and Morathi eating up most of the classic Dark Elves' old niches (in-universe and out), I'm not really sure where Malekith would fit in anymore.

Why shouldn’t he fit anymore?

I mean I am realy a fanboy, but if he is the leader of the realm of shadows why should he be dead?

Malekith is just alive cause of the amount of hate he has. That’s the only reason he is alive. Hell, that’s the only reason he exists! So probably he could be the next destruction army.🤷🏼‍♂️

I am realy interested where the BR books are leading us to. But with Be‘lakors return (wich got kicked out of ulgu), there is a good chance he comes back.🙄

i know there is much hope in it, but he just fits perfectly fine. And ulgu is a complet mist(ery). (Hehe)

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20 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Why shouldn’t he fit anymore?

I mean I am realy a fanboy, but if he is the leader of the realm of shadows why should he be dead?

Malekith is just alive cause of the amount of hate he has. That’s the only reason he is alive. Hell, that’s the only reason he exists! So probably he could be the next destruction army.🤷🏼‍♂️

I am realy interested where the BR books are leading us to. But with Be‘lakors return (wich got kicked out of ulgu), there is a good chance he comes back.🙄

i know there is much hope in it, but he just fits perfectly fine. And ulgu is a complet mist(ery). (Hehe)

Ulgu is also the realm of lies and hidden truths - it would be fitting that its supposed leader is just a mirage.

On the other hand, I do hope they put him in a different GA - destruction or chaos would obviously work, but I have a pet wish it would be death, as it would be something entirely different for aelves.

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As to rumours, I had this thought a while ago.

What if, during the events (most likely finale) of the broken realms, a realm literally gets broken?

I mean, during some collosal battle or a magical ritual, one of the realms literally gets shattered into thousands of smaller realm-bits, travellable only by realmgates, or even isolated forever. I admit that this theory was more plausible back when some of the realms didn't have any mapped regions. The only realm without a map is Azyr, and while perhaps Gordrakks ram could maybe break it, it would perhaps be too big of an event.

But still, if I remember correctly, the announcement article for BR literally said ,,Realms will be broken". What do you guys think? Is it a plausible idea and if so, which realm could it be?

Edited by GenericEdgyName
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