Vasshpit Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 My thoughts as well but GW could look to updating Hexwraiths as those aren't really in line with the current design. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixLord Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 6 hours ago, sandlemad said: I'm reluctant to see the Mourngul being sold out as indicating anything more than FW waking from hibernation to cancel a bunch of kits and then go back to sleep, as is their way. As someone pretty new to the hobby, what is Forgeworld for? Why do they exist as a separate entity?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 24 minutes ago, PhoenixLord said: As someone pretty new to the hobby, what is Forgeworld for? Why do they exist as a separate entity?? Excellent question. Honestly it makes no sense to me. I just know they usually cast in resin and are often of such dubious quality that its hard to distinguish between true FW and recasts. To the point that many people require a proof of purchase. My advice to new players is just steer clear of their stuff, unless you buy it used at a discount. They are extremely expensive and tend to get dropped from matched play seemingly at random. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Landohammer said: My advice to new players is just steer clear of their stuff, unless you buy it used at a discount. They are extremely expensive and tend to get dropped from matched play seemingly at random. Yup. 400€ Models might get dropped out of the blue 🤷🏼♂️ 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriticalKhan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, PhoenixLord said: As someone pretty new to the hobby, what is Forgeworld for? Why do they exist as a separate entity?? They used to create kits in resin that had detail plastic ones simply couldn't match. They were the elite specialist retailer in an elite specialist hobby. But plastic detail caught up and Forgeworld was out of a niche, and they've been on a slow decline ever since. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 hours ago, Nezzhil said: Rogue Idol is back in stock now after being "sold out" for weeks. Don`t think that the Mourngul is gone. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Templar_Lad Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Was the Rogue Idol just 'temporarily unavailable' though or was it listed as 'no longer available?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Black_Templar_Lad said: Was the Rogue Idol just 'temporarily unavailable' though or was it listed as 'no longer available?' It was listed as "no longer available" / Sold Out in EU, UK and US. And now it is back in stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Templar_Lad Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Fuchur said: It was listed as "no longer available" / Sold Out in EU, UK and US. And now it is back in stock. Ah good to know thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixLord Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 39 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said: They used to create kits in resin that had detail plastic ones simply couldn't match. They were the elite specialist retailer in an elite specialist hobby. But plastic detail caught up and Forgeworld was out of a niche, and they've been on a slow decline ever since. Ahhhh OK. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, PhoenixLord said: Ahhhh OK. Thanks for the info! It wasn't just the detail, they started out as their own little fiefdom within GW making big expensive tanks, vehicles and monsters to support 40k and, to a lesser extent, WHFB, along with bespoke campaign books that were a cut above what GW itself made. As things progressed though, GW got better at doing those kinds of big things in plastic, meaning FW did even more specialist stuff and eventually the entire separate Horus Heresy game, which was immensely popular and attracted a lot of players around 6th/7th edition 40k, when the 40k rules were a mess. Folks talk about how well GW has done in the last few years but pre-2015 FW were one of the only parts of the company that was not a hot mess and didn't receive a lot of bad will on the part of the hobby/fandom. For quite a while, they were the coolest stuff going. The Horus Heresy range was a success but sort of cannibalised a lot of their other creative output and there were other false starts. FW started a series of WHFB campaign books and minis about the end of the old world but GW basically shut that down, ironically, with their own End Times stuff and switch to AoS. Combined with all that, the departure of some sculptors and the tragic death of one of their central figures, Alan Bligh, had an impact on their consistency (a lot of their rules are patchy and seldom updated) and output. A bunch of their resources have also gone towards supporting Specialist Games like Blood Bowl and Adeptus Titanicus. Rules writing for all their minis was (and might still be?) taken out of their hands but hasn't improved in regularity or consistency. FW were never a particularly well-managed mini-company/part of GW (which was the flip side to them being sort of scrappy and creative and approachable) but in the last few years they've been even worse, with stretches of time between releases, announced and unannounced removals of products, lots of stuff being out of stock, and a general decrease in what little support there was for AoS in particular. They're kind of a mess, to put it generously. Edited March 4, 2021 by sandlemad 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthaunt Noob Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, RamsesIII said: I do agree on that, I don't see these zombies being ported straight to Soulblight Gravelords, not without many additions to differentiate them. Plus admittedly the graves make them look "higher-tier" in a way, like they're supposed to be stronger than the abundant zombie chaff. I wonder if that might be a thing actually, having both weak zombies in great numbers and a few slightly more elite kinds of zombies. I'm of a similar opinion as many of you. I actually really like the Cursed City zombies, but I also hope that any kit for the Soulblight Gravelords is different from these push fit ones. I expect these Cursed City zombies will be the same warscroll regardless. They won't be "elite" zombies. Edited March 4, 2021 by Nighthaunt Noob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 On the plus side for FW - they made the Troggoth Hag. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyriakin Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, Aelfric said: On the plus side for FW - they made the Troggoth Hag. They made the incomparable Preyton, too... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 RE: zombies, I kind of feel like... well, they're zombies. There's only so much you can do with them. What could GW do to make new zombies hit that sweet spot between cost and sculpt quality (bearing in mind you're probably going to have a lot of them in your army) to make their offer a better option than the Mantic ones? Intricate detail won't be all that when you're running half a hundred dudes. A GW brand name won't make a difference and any attempt to put an AoS-unique stamp on them will be rather more shallow than most, particularly as this grave thing doesn't stack well and seems specific to Ulfenkarn. People don't wax poetic about zombies in the way they do about vampires or wights so I think that while everyone agrees the current GW zombies are dreadful (or at best have a crude, goofy charm) there is going to be less demand for cool! new! deadwalkers! Bluntly, I don't think GW can make a good enough zombie kit to be worth what they'll charge for it. Mantic zombies are €40 for 40. GW zombies will, at best, be €45 for 20, quite probably more expensive than that. 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KriticalKhan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, sandlemad said: Bluntly, I don't think GW can make a good enough zombie kit to be worth what they'll charge for it. Mantic zombies are €40 for 40. GW zombies will, at best, be €45 for 20, quite probably more expensive than that. And people will still pay for it, just like they always have. So long as they have the market dominance they do, GW branding can absolutely sell it. All they have to do is take what they've got and make sculpts that don't look like ass, just like the Wight King, Vampire Lord, and every other model update they've done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) Yeah, that’s part of what I’m getting at. It’s GW so it’ll sell, even if it’s just an perfectly adequate GW-brand Deadwalker™ at the also plausible price of €35-45 for 10 dudes. Edited March 4, 2021 by sandlemad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alghero81 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Wasn’t FW at least in WHFB considered almost a pay to win for some time? I remember when I first showed with a Mourngul in my area they all looked at me bad and indeed the first warscroll of the Mourngul took by himself 1000pt of Nurgle... Not sure about the rest of the line although or how true that was in 40k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Landohammer said: My advice to new players is just steer clear of their stuff, unless you buy it used at a discount. They are extremely expensive and tend to get dropped from matched play seemingly at random. On the other hand, they make really cool stuff. If you are among the hefty pile o' people who either just want to work on cool models or don't give a hoot about matched play, then FW is great for you. Quick biz info: When I was working at GW it was explained to me that divisions or subsidiaries are formed at that their possible financial failures can be isolated from the main company. It lets them open and shut segments of the business with very little to no liabilities beyond what that division experiences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 If anything I try to steer people toward forgeworld! Some of those models are outstanding and whilst GW's plastic has come a long way its still can't do what resin can do in terms of super fine details and certain angles for casting. I've several fantastic Tyranid models and a now out of production Warpfire Dragon and Wolf Rats - all fantastic models. Heck I'd love a full Eldar force from FW as they've some really neat models! The Lynx is a fantastic looking Eldar grav-tank with a huge lance-like cannon! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, alghero81 said: Wasn’t FW at least in WHFB considered almost a pay to win for some time? I remember when I first showed with a Mourngul in my area they all looked at me bad and indeed the first warscroll of the Mourngul took by himself 1000pt of Nurgle... Not sure about the rest of the line although or how true that was in 40k As in understand it, that was pretty much exclusively true for the Mourngul in WHFB. There have periodically been similar things in 40k but it’s always been scattered and inconsistent and down to sloppy rules writing rather than an active attempt to make the pricier kits stronger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Forgeworlds biggest enemy is itself these days, they use to be the cool part of GW but then GW changed and got better and FW... Slipped into the niche its parent company abandoned with veils of secrecy, particularly predatory pricing and general badness. Especially with their fantasy lines which feel particularly close to the chopping blocks. Specialist games stuff is at least a bit less prone to the worst of it but thats pretty Off topic (Specialist games are great!) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I imagine from above, the zombies would look like a graveyard itself is crawling across the field. I find that to be some cool imagery. Yes, it would have been nice to have more sculpts, like the 10 Necron Warriors got. But they might (hopefully) use that as justification to keep the kit on the cheaper end. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, Noserenda said: Forgeworlds biggest enemy is itself these days, they use to be the cool part of GW but then GW changed and got better and FW... Slipped into the niche its parent company abandoned with veils of secrecy, particularly predatory pricing and general badness. Especially with their fantasy lines which feel particularly close to the chopping blocks. Specialist games stuff is at least a bit less prone to the worst of it but thats pretty Off topic (Specialist games are great!) My understanding is the issues with FW are a few folds 1) They sadly lost one of their key designers (who also spearhead the HH project), who sadly died. He was also key in securing funds and navigating the internal GW politics 2) Internal GW politics and resource allocation. I honestly don't think FW nor GW quite know exactly what they are doing with some aspects of the company - eg the AoS segment did get a very short term AoS team, who made a few alternate heads and were then disabanded and since then FW has been steadily stripping AoS models from the lineup. 3) The specialist games (necromunda, adepticus titanicus e tc...) have done REALLY well and are all FW model lines (yes even the plastic components). The result is that this has sapped a lot of time and skill into those niches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthaunt Noob Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 hour ago, AverageBoss said: I imagine from above, the zombies would look like a graveyard itself is crawling across the field. I find that to be some cool imagery. Yes, it would have been nice to have more sculpts, like the 10 Necron Warriors got. But they might (hopefully) use that as justification to keep the kit on the cheaper end. A pushfit box of 10 zombies with only 5 repeat sculpts at Lumineth pricing would be criminal. If GW does stick with the gravestones on top of all of them, I hope they at least make a multi-part kit to add some more variety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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