The Rumour Thread

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

On the one hand, I agree that Underworlds and Warcry warbands are not primarily for AoS and that they are playable at all is just a bonus, but on the other hand GW is a multi-million, international company who should really be able to cross-integrate them in a more exciting way.

Yup.

The only places where I can see much use for them is in ME, since it's a different warscroll name. Or Thundrik's Profiteers in a separate gunship to get the A team on an objective quickly.

[NotAWzrd]

The added bonus of Khagra’s Ravagers and the Crimson Court is that you are getting 4 heroes of varying levels for £25 as opposed to just one model for £17. 

[sandlemad]

It is odd to see how many of the WHU rules for AoS are so rote and slapdash, particularly when an important feature of WHU as a game clearly is (was?) that the minis be actively usable in GW's flagship game.  Like, they're largely meant to be basic troops and heroes  but just something to make them that bit more interesting to play with would hardly be difficult, even considering how a designer might balance the rest of a battletome. Instead it feels like the designers just shrugged and went with the least effort option, knowing that no one would actually take them.

It's a difference between what the impulse behind the overall design (more than a gesture, this seems to have been an important aspect of the development) and then a lackadaisical execution in the details. Same with Warcry as well, it does feel like when they've wound up interesting and playable - not even OP or whatever - it's been a fluke and completely incidental. They do sometimes provide options for getting excellent stand-in or pseudo-proxy heroes but again, that seems like it's separate to what was intended for them as a product. I dunno, the whole thing seems sloppy.

Edited January 30, 2021 by sandlemad

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

I can understand that they don’t make them too good, but as people mentioned, a fun spell, or even mildly useful would be ok. For example, someone like me would use Myari even if it’s somewhat subpar or fun, simply because I like to play with mages. But, going out of their way to make them really useless and unfun is a problem I think. For most factions this means one additional Warscroll, I doubt this would make balancing that much more difficult for them, and think that’s part of their job. In the case of Myari, it’s not like the scroll would be super powerful if Myari had access to the Lore of Hysh, like any Lumineth mage should. It would be still pretty bad, but you could put them in if you really want to. Right now they are boring and bad. 

I bought the Warband after I knew how bad it is in AoS, I just think they miss out on an opportunity to bring in some fun options. Especially for people who don’t see other large extensions of their faction. I’ll likely get a few more mages in a few months, so I can give it all a shrug, but for other factions a Warband might be all they get for a few years. And then the devs make sure that they are really useless and boring. Just seems strange to me. 

If I’m honest. You want not only a cake and eat it. But it also needs to be at least able to cast a fun spell. 

and I do agree that they could have been made cool/good/game breaking/whatever you want from them. But I’m just happy I can play the toys if I want them. It’s an extra, not a requirement.

edit: and reading what people have posted after the post I responded to. 
I feel even stronger that they should never have been given rules for AoS. 
If a little throwaway gesture that you can play in the main game leads to complaints, just don’t do it and let them be alternative sculpts. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Kramer

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

If I’m honest. You want not only a cake and eat it. But it also needs to be at least able to cast a fun spell. 

and I do agree that they could have been made cool/good/game breaking/whatever you want from them. But I’m just happy I can play the toys if I want them. It’s an extra, not a requirement. 

For the price you pay for a few figures, being able to actually use them in both games is a good thing.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

On the one hand, I agree that Underworlds and Warcry warbands are not primarily for AoS and that they are playable at all is just a bonus, but on the other hand GW is a multi-million, international company who should really be able to cross-integrate them in a more exciting way.

The multi-million of International company can’t get the balance in the main game right, so why do you expect them to cross integrate the side game models in a more exciting way? 
even more moving parts to mess up balance. 
money doesn’t equal skill 

[Kramer]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

For the price you pay for a few figures, being able to actually use them in both games is a good thing.

You can. They still are great models. Thudnrik makes a very cool khemist. 

[Scurvydog]

Regardless it is going to take a looong time to get this new warband shipped, as stores around here warns that orders might take around 3 weeks to ship due to Brexit

[zilberfrid]

17 minutes ago, Kramer said:

You can. They still are great models. Thudnrik makes a very cool khemist. 

Correct, and I guess also cheaper than the regular khemist.

I guess my perception of an expensive model isn't what GW thinks of it. Some people do buy the 22,5 euro single pose infantry sized models without any extra bits.

[KingBrodd]

So March for BR Teclis?

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Correct, and I guess also cheaper than the regular khemist.

I guess my perception of an expensive model isn't what GW thinks of it. Some people do buy the 22,5 euro single pose infantry sized models without any extra bits.

Yeah absolutely.  I recently bought the nurgle lord that’s only €12,00 and I suddenly had a flashback to when that was a normal price 😂

But the other two are 22,50

[Overread]

Perhaps, its hard to tell right now, but April would feel a bit late for it, then again that's two big AoS releases in a row then if we assume that Lumineth's major release comes with that book. Then again last year was very 40K heavy in the latter half and AoS got squeezed somewhat.

[ian0delond]

1 hour ago, sandlemad said:

It is odd to see how many of the WHU rules for AoS are so rote and slapdash, particularly when an important feature of WHU as a game clearly is (was?) that the minis be actively usable in GW's flagship game.  Like, they're largely meant to be basic troops and heroes  but just something to make them that bit more interesting to play with would hardly be difficult, even considering how a designer might balance the rest of a battletome. Instead it feels like the designers just shrugged and went with the least effort option, knowing that no one would actually take them.

It's a difference between what the impulse behind the overall design (more than a gesture, this seems to have been an important aspect of the development) and then a lackadaisical execution in the details. Same with Warcry as well, it does feel like when they've wound up interesting and playable - not even OP or whatever - it's been a fluke and completely incidental. They do sometimes provide options for getting excellent stand-in or pseudo-proxy heroes but again, that seems like it's separate to what was intended for them as a product. I dunno, the whole thing seems sloppy.

From how they communicate about rules for WHU, Warcy or Warhammer Quest miniatures, it's very openly deliberate for the rules to be bad in the bigger games.  Use them for one friendly game, and never use them again because they are not meant to be part of the meta.

GW really isn't in the business of making rules. Using the miniatures as proxy is much more how they view those units. Having one named unit from WHU of 5 miniatures with different weapons and purpose isn't how AoS is supposed to work.

[Ragest]

Well, we had a brand new subfaction to place warcry models, so I’m not sure about that “play it just for proxy”

[Ggom]

Eh, the proxy thing is questionable when DoK warband base sizes don’t even match their main units...

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

The multi-million of International company can’t get the balance in the main game right, so why do you expect them to cross integrate the side game models in a more exciting way? 
even more moving parts to mess up balance. 
money doesn’t equal skill 

[Kramer]

21 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

You can expect GW to make exciting and balanced rules for all there models... but if we're honest it aint gonna happen.

[Talas]

8 hours ago, sfe667 said:

I'm surprised the 125pts bit hasn't been commented on further. If this is a nod to a AOS 3.0 method of pointing, it's giving the granularity of a 4,000 points system, meaning balance should be far easier to achieve at the lower point levels.

I was thinking something like that. Maybe that's the reason why they didn't touch points now, because they are already working on the new point system.

[azdimy]

When we see some units costed incorrectly by more than 50pts, does it really matter that they start to do 5pt increments instead of 10? I don t think this will help gw better adjust points. If anything it will be worse now because they ll keep adjusting every faq by 5pts a unit that needs to come up or down by 10x that

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

20 minutes ago, azdimy said:

When we see some units costed incorrectly by more than 50pts, does it really matter that they start to do 5pt increments instead of 10? I don t think this will help gw better adjust points. If anything it will be worse now because they ll keep adjusting every faq by 5pts a unit that needs to come up or down by 10x that

I agree, the only place I can see this actually being useful is for very cheap infantry units. But even there, 5 points more or less won't make or break them.

[Mutton]

The granularity of 5 vs. 10 point list building doesn't help game balance at all. It would only make list building more of a hassle.

[Charleston]

18 hours ago, NotAWzrd said:

On the topic of Stormcast in the Cursed City, there is the arrow quiver rumour engine below. Has what looks like the plume most Stormcast primes and heroes have. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Also noticed that there’s still two very Chaos/StD rumour engines unsolved that go way, way back. I thought the shield might have been from Khagra’s’s Ravagers but it’s not. Any ideas what these could be? 
 

  Hide contents

 

There are also rumour engines showing Wings with a chain which look like a Belakor redesign. All portents hint us another model release for StD. We could possibly expect:

• Multipart Chaos Warrior Kits
• Belakor Plastic Kit
• Plastic Chosen (rather unlikely to happen, like 30-40% if I had to guess, based on fact that they are the only remaining resin kit beside belakor)
• Marauders (going after the fact that they are quite pushed and the kit is damn old. Many people (including myself) actually tought them to be swuatted with the Tome.
• New Chaos Lord Kit with a flail (Profile in the tome but no model available yet)

[Scurvydog]

10 minutes ago, Charleston said:

• New Chaos Lord Kit with a flail (Profile in the tome but no model available yet)

I think that just refers to the chariot guy you could build like that. They made the rules terrible to account for nobody wanting to buy a chariot just to build that guy

Edited January 30, 2021 by Scurvydog

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, Mutton said:

The granularity of 5 vs. 10 point list building doesn't help game balance at all. It would only make list building more of a hassle.

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. The problem is rounding. Let's say you develop mathematically consistent way of pointing warscrolls. You put a warscroll into the model and it spits out a value of 95 points. You put in another warscroll and it spits out a value of 94 points. These warscrolls are going to be almost identical in power level, but 10 point rounding will leave one at 90 points and the other at 100 points. If the warscrolls are within the same faction that can be the difference between one being competitive and the other seeing no competitive play. If we're talking about basic battleline for two different factions it could have a significant impact in faction balance.  The less rounding we have the better.

 

[Boar]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

I think that just refers to the chariot guy you could build like that. They made the rules terrible to account for nobody wanting to buy a chariot just to build that guy

Hey dude is worse, but you roll just one profile - how efficient! I added leftover flail part onto old Chaos Warrior from 90. and he is my Chaos Lord😛