The Rumour Thread

[Clan's Cynic]

On 1/3/2021 at 11:06 AM, Scurvydog said:

In my local stores and most used webshops getting the bonereapers was somewhat hard and things got sold out fast, yet the lumineth just sat there, plenty in stock long after release and still are.

The Ossiarch release was weird. I remember the reaction here and around the 'net being pretty lukewarm-to-poor, at least compared to previous reveals. Tomb Kings players weren't happy, standard-issue skeleton players hoping for something like the Sepulchral Guard weren't happy, a lot of other people just thought they were goofy (the grins) and overdesigned. Sure you inevitably had a few 'I LOVE THEM' but I felt like even after everything, including the Cows/Cowguard were revealed, the reaction to Lumineth was far, far, stronger.

However once the Ossiarchs got their rules previews and the influencers showed off how brokenly powerful they were, suddenly everybody and their mum was running out to buy them and attitudes shifted completely- well, maybe not completely, other than Katakros I don't see that much love for the models but their popularity couldn't be disputed I think.

Frankly I think the power level of the Ossiarchs did a lot for them and now they've been bumped down to mid-to-high  tier  it'll be interesting to see how popular they continue to be.

As for the Lumineth not flying off the shelves, I think that was probably a case of Games Workshop seeing the controversy surrounding the Sisters box selling out everywhere in literal seconds and didn't want a repeat of that. Age of Sigmar box sets always sell a good deal slower than 40k (except for, ironically, Feast of Bones) - you can still get Aether War without too much trouble and Shadow & Pain too. I wouldn't read too much into Lumineth boxes being easy to get until we get future Army Boxes and seeing how quickly they comparatively sell.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Overread]

8 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I don't dislike Teclis (other than his price point). My problem is that Celennar is just sort of... there? It's like they wanted him to be this big diorama like every other Elven God but couldn't find something that worked. Hell I like Celennar too but it's just tacked on because, uhhh, well, they needed something big.

Personally I think something to do with the various elements would've worked a lot better - wind, stone, etc, etc, have various visual concepts surrounding him akin to the spirits/souls do on Nagash (and Co.) harkening back to him being such a powerful mage. 

Agreed, both models on their own are great, but there's really no connection between them on the sculpt. It's just one model sort of stuck on the wing of another. It's almost like a mistake in the 3D design that made it all the way through to model production. It's a shame because there are so many great ways they could have combined the two whilst having them distinct in their own right or just have them as two separate models that come together (like Morathi is now with the new campaign book). 

[zilberfrid]

5 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Quite right, though I'd note that for the Celestial Hurricanum/Cauldron of Blood that was by design and explicitly marketed as such, i.e. hey look, you're guaranteed to have a spare hero model once you've built this. You got that with quite a few later WHFB kits and some early AoS ones like the Magmadroth, all by design and easily doable.

The sad thing about the other examples is that the kit will either suffer a little because now it's missing a component (take away a sister/palatine from the Triumph or the navigator from the airship and you have to find something to plug the gap) or that there's no actual rules to represent them. The Myrmidesh dude from Glutos could be a stand-in for the Lord of Pain, if an inexact one, but Katakros's retainers are harder, there's not really anything they can stand in as besides an unusually fancy Mortek guard champion or standard bearer. Imagine if the Ossiarch had rules for a fighty hero on foot or an old school battle standard bearer character.

I think it's probably a slight shift in terms of kit design but it's also probably a quirk of these big kits being special characters.

For me, versatility is enough. If I'm not using the hypothetical Ironclad, I might have a use for the navigator without the ironclad. I know there now is a hole in it, but I can either put another dwarf there or not, but I have more versatility from the kit than I would otherwise have.

For the procession similar, if I want to use a few of them separately, I'd have to build it so I cantake them from the big base.

That is, if I'd be playing. My minis are mostly being used in D&D and Pathfinder, and if the miniatures work without the diorama, I don't really care about missing rules.

If the minis do not work without the diorama, I have no use for them so the diorama needs quite a bit more value for money as a painting project. That value for money I won't find in GW's catalogue.

[Fulkes]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

That's something I also noticed. The diorama style centrepieces' individual figures are good enough that, if you're not using the model as a centrepiece and have constructed it that way, you can easily field them as separate entities.

This is true for Katakros and the Triumph of st Katharine, but also for the Celestial Hurricanum with its four wizards, Couldron of Blood, Freeguild General on Griffin (with a general on foot and battlewizard on foot after minor conversion) Kharadron Frigate (navigator) and Kharadron Ironclad (both Navigator and Endrinmaster).

The clear answer is to magnetized the models and have spare bases so you can use them on both as you see fit.

[sandlemad]

29 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

For me, versatility is enough. If I'm not using the hypothetical Ironclad, I might have a use for the navigator without the ironclad. I know there now is a hole in it, but I can either put another dwarf there or not, but I have more versatility from the kit than I would otherwise have.

For the procession similar, if I want to use a few of them separately, I'd have to build it so I cantake them from the big base.

I get you. It's certainly doable and is hardly difficult, it's just it would be nice if it was enabled a bit more.

[Kramer]

I love that the game went from mono pose models to these centrepiece diorama filled with characters cool enough to be on their own... 

And we still see things we would like to be different 😂 

 

[sandlemad]

11 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I love that the game went from mono pose models to these centrepiece diorama filled with characters cool enough to be on their own... 

And we still see things we would like to be different 😂 

That's the thing, this dude absolutely is cool enough to be on his own. Best model in the Ossiarch range to my mind. But does he actually have his own warscroll or worthwhile substitute, can you actually use him on his own without recourse to the DIY hero ruleset or your own work? Unfortunately not, unlike some older WHFB kits.

It's a minor thing but unfortunate and comes as a corollary of GW's models/rules design practices. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by sandlemad

[Sance]

21 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I love that the game went from mono pose models to these centrepiece diorama filled with characters cool enough to be on their own... 

And we still see things we would like to be different 😂 

 

Someone gifted me theses exact dwarves models but only 7 of them. I need to find a snow white model to acompany them

[zilberfrid]

38 minutes ago, Fulkes said:

The clear answer is to magnetized the models and have spare bases so you can use them on both as you see fit.

I have put the Celestial Hurricanum models on thin 25mm Renedra bases, which I textured a bit, that also works. I though very briefly about cutting it out entirely with a 25mm circular saw drillbit that I have thinned down, but decided against that.

36 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

I get you. It's certainly doable and is hardly difficult, it's just it would be nice if it was enabled a bit more.

Enabling it more is always better.

I think I have enough in the cheap and cheerful models now, with some 300 unpainted to choose from for my d&d needs, so new stuff will be those centerpieces. I've put the Ironclad, Frigate and Mortis engine, as well as Katakros and Sisters procession in the cart quite often, but never actually put them through.

[zilberfrid]

9 minutes ago, Sance said:

Someone gifted me theses exact dwarves models but only 7 of them. I need to find a snow white model to acompany them

Morathi? Or is she more of an evil step mother...

Snow white skin, red lips and a dress, if you paint her hair black, maybe this is a snow white? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Isabella-Von-Carstein

Edited January 4, 2021 by zilberfrid

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

That's the thing, this dude absolutely is cool enough to be on his own. Best model in the Ossiarch range to my mind. But does he actually have his own warscroll or worthwhile substitute, can you actually use him on his own without recourse to the DIY hero ruleset or your own work? Unfortunately not, unlike some older WHFB kits.

It's a minor thing but unfortunate and comes as a corollary of GW's models/rules design practices. 

It was meant as a joke but my genuine response would be. 
 

what else can they do? 
Give it rules but sell it only in the big box? You can guess the response yourself. Same happend with the cauldron of blood and the only reason it’s remotely okay is because it’s in a super useful start collecting. Glad they stopped doing that  

give it rules and sell it separately? Maybe. But that makes the centrepiece less unique and would feel as a money grab as well

Making the minions less cool? Obviously not. 

GW can’t win. For me it’s just an cool bit in a model. And as with all cool bits, just use it for a conversion 😁

[Kramer]

10 minutes ago, Sance said:

Someone gifted me theses exact dwarves models but only 7 of them. I need to find a snow white model to acompany them

Since your going old school it has to be one of the damsels right? 

 

 

[Enoby]

39 minutes ago, Kramer said:

It was meant as a joke but my genuine response would be. 
 

what else can they do? 
Give it rules but sell it only in the big box? You can guess the response yourself. Same happend with the cauldron of blood and the only reason it’s remotely okay is because it’s in a super useful start collecting. Glad they stopped doing that  

give it rules and sell it separately? Maybe. But that makes the centrepiece less unique and would feel as a money grab as well

Making the minions less cool? Obviously not. 

GW can’t win. For me it’s just an cool bit in a model. And as with all cool bits, just use it for a conversion 😁

You raise a lot of good points. Maybe have them a bit like the Gobbapalooza in that they can act as independent heroes bought in one box, but also allow them to exist in one unit, and have both of these states reflected on the Warscroll. So the diorama would almost act like a Kharadron ship, and taking a model off removes the model permanently from the original warscroll (and X amount of wounds, attacks, and abilities), but allows you to use it as an independent model.

It'd be really tricky to write a warscroll for and to design detatchable models, but it'd allow for people to use the individual models on their own. 

[Greybeard86]

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

However once the Ossiarchs got their rules previews and the influencers showed off how brokenly powerful they were, suddenly everybody and their mum was running out to buy them and attitudes shifted completely- well, maybe not completely, other than Katakros I don't see that much love for the models but their popularity couldn't be disputed I think.

Rules sell models. It is not the only consideration, but it does matter. Plus, "popularity" sells models. People who paint for a hobby want either clients (if they go professional) or an audience (if they do it for the hobby itself). So, if an army is popular, it essentially attracts everyone.

As for the design of centerpieces, GW has always overpriced "heroes". Some argue it is a matter of economies of scale; IMO it is simply them price discriminating.

HE-revisited have an extremely divisive design. I do not think they were gunning to be controversial with cow elves, they just missed the mark, IMO. It is always the case that some sculpts please some people over others, but I do not think you want something which is actively disliked by so many (even if they are still a minority).

I am still waiting for satyr and centaur kurnothi, my valhalla dawi, and some normie humans. Supported freeguild would be so awesome to see in that crazy over the top high fantasy setting. You come at my riding some crazy beetle monstruosity, sis? Take that pike to the face!

[Greybeard86]

10 minutes ago, Enoby said:

You raise a lot of good points. Maybe have them a bit like the Gobbapalooza in that they can act as independent heroes bought in one box, but also allow them to exist in one unit, and have both of these states reflected on the Warscroll. So the diorama would almost act like a Kharadron ship, and taking a model off removes the model permanently from the original warscroll (and X amount of wounds, attacks, and abilities), but allows you to use it as an independent model.

It'd be really tricky to write a warscroll for and to design detatchable models, but it'd allow for people to use the individual models on their own. 

Allow people to proxy, I think that's easier than some convoluted rules. Have more foot heroes that can easily be proxied by those sculpts.

[sandlemad]

57 minutes ago, Kramer said:

give it rules and sell it separately? Maybe. But that makes the centrepiece less unique and would feel as a money grab as well

This would be fine, honestly. If they'd had another foot Liege that looked even 90% the same as this, the Ossiarch range would be better. People could sub this sculpt in for that warscoll if they liked then. Kind of the same issue with the marked lack of a non-SC Lumineth foot hero who wasn't a mage, a traditional fighty hero. In both cases in the initial previews folks were clamouring for them, just as for AdMech and Harlequins.

I don't think GW was in a particular bind here or that they couldn't win, it wasn't like they were forced down this route. They made the choice to include some very cool character sculpts as retainers for their big SC (some of whom are quite specific to the character of that diorama, some of whom are less so) and also to specifically not include them as separate releases, despite that being a gap in the range for a fighty character on-foot. I would imagine they were dictated more by sprue counts for a release than anything more high minded, which then dictates rules according to the usual model-first AoS restricted choice principle of "all Lord Celestants have a hammer and sword, all foot Khorne Lords have a flesh hound, every Ossiarch commander is mounted". 

The Goblapalooza idea isn't bad but it is a little convoluted and the warscroll concept that Katarkos only fights when you've got through his flunkeys is a genuinely cool one. Simply having another model and associated warscroll (or anything you could proxy it for, like the Slaanesh Myrmidesh bodyguard -> Lord of Pain) feels like it would have been more simple.

[Matrindur]

 

Knight-Questor Sylas Beastbane is the store anniversary model

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/04/get-a-first-look-at-this-years-exclusive-store-anniversary-models/

[Dreddships]

2 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

 

Knight-Questor Sylas Beastbane is the store anniversary model

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/04/get-a-first-look-at-this-years-exclusive-store-anniversary-models/

That is a stunning model. It's grim and disgusting. 

Excellent job - hope it's a peak at things to come for the SCE

[Sance]

Cool model, I knew it wasn't going to be an alternative Isharan Soulrender

[Fulkes]

They mention the hammer has special rules, so it makes me wonder if we have a new unit coming later this year with this hammers.

[Kramer]

36 minutes ago, Enoby said:

You raise a lot of good points. Maybe have them a bit like the Gobbapalooza in that they can act as independent heroes bought in one box, but also allow them to exist in one unit, and have both of these states reflected on the Warscroll. So the diorama would almost act like a Kharadron ship, and taking a model off removes the model permanently from the original warscroll (and X amount of wounds, attacks, and abilities), but allows you to use it as an independent model.

It'd be really tricky to write a warscroll for and to design detatchable models, but it'd allow for people to use the individual models on their own. 

Oh that would be cool! 
still wouldn’t get around buying the whole thing if you only like one part. But if it’s kinda like a (former) Morathi thing where it’s part of the rules that would be cool. 

[Kramer]

12 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

This would be fine, honestly. If they'd had another foot Liege that looked even 90% the same as this, the Ossiarch range would be better.

Yeah true. But I assume that if they have the resources to do an extra model. They would have done it I assume. 
also if they had another I still maintain it would make the centrepiece retainer less cool. 
 

but regarding the ossiarch one. Why not use him as a bad ass mortek guard champion ? 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Kramer

[Neverchosen]

34 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Allow people to proxy, I think that's easier than some convoluted rules. Have more foot heroes that can easily be proxied by those sculpts.

I keep wondering about this as AOS grows will we ever return to the days of having our heroes reflect the feel we want for our army? In Fantasy it was really fun deciding if I wanted my Chaos lord on foot, horse, manticore or dragon. I am fine if they all have different warscrolls and even slightly different titles. I am okay with more limited hero options than before, but essentially having a hero that can fulfill a parallel role to the rest of the army is essential. For example I am fine with the Deepmare being the primary mount for Akhelian heroes, but I would wish for an unmounted Akhelian King (which could be a Prince or a Princess) who wishes to fight alongside the Thralls and Reavers instead of falling in line with the rest Nobility. Also, I really wish they would allow for more units to be promoted into heroes, like I find it strange that in my Slaves to Darkness army that the Warshrine priest is not a hero or my charioteer can only be a hero in a single subfaction. 

I will also add my comment about the new hero model here. That is an amazing model with an amazingly unfashionable bowlcut... perfect prey for the New Slaanesh line. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Bayul]

Hamilcar Bear-Eater next year please.

[sandlemad]

16 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah true. But I assume that if they have the resources to do an extra model. They would have done it I assume. 
also if they had another I still maintain it would make the centrepiece retainer less cool. 

but regarding the ossiarch one. Why not use him as a bad ass mortek guard champion ? 

I don't think the Liege Immortis's coolness relies on him being the singe on-foot Ossiarch senior officer sculpt around. I would imagine it wouldn't be hard to differentiate him with a slightly different helmet crest or even a regal sword instead of twin daggers. It could even add to the diorama's effect, making it obvious that Katakros is so important, he has a dude that looks like your General just chilling and offering advice.

RE: the champion, honestly, because it's too nice a model to use for a one-wound unit leader model. Even allowing for the idea that Ossiarchs unit leaders are more important than in most armies, it'd be like using a chapter master as a sergeant. It's got poise, unique gear, unique weapons, and it's literally head and shoulders taller than your average Mortek guard model. 

GW should have allocated their resources better to make an appropriate character, just as they should have with Lumineth, AdMech and Harlequins. They made their choices, even if under other concerns, and it led to what I think is an unfortunate outcome.