The Rumour Thread

[Greybeard86]

9 hours ago, Overread said:

I figure GW's pattern is to get lots of armies out to start with and then grow them steadily over time. That means smaller armies have a chance of building at least a modest fanbase for when they do get big lauches. It reduces the risk that GW releases 20 new Ossiarch Bonereaper models in one massive go and - no one likes them. Or rather that no one likes them enough. Which means GW has to then invest even more marketing to push for that army above others. 

I understand that this is a strategy. I just think it’s become a tad extreme, with GW releasing lots of armies in place of expanding. We already discussed this elsewhere, but not only lots of armies have few options, but battalions and keywords hyper focus even within the small range. I do not know how luminescent work, but someone suggested they have two viable compositions. I know that for the armies I got into this is the case, even though some others might have a bit more variety.  I think that if I were to collect say fyreslayers alone the hobby would get a tad boring pretty fast. 
 

While in the past GW products seemed to encouraging having a main faction, now they don’t seem to go with that. I ll be fine, but I honestly prefer wider rangers over many small armies.

9 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

Are you referring to allies?  Lumineth have a very, very short list of other factions they will allow to ally with them.

More accurately, I assume you build one army, finish it, then build another army?  Games Workshop can try all they like, but a customer is only going to buy what they want.  You and I might want a second, third or fifth army, but just by participating on this forum, it shows we probably are a bit more involved in the hobby compared to the average player.  I suspect there are far more people out there that stick with a 'main' army and less commonly build another one.  Especially to the same size of their 'main.'  If I was to hazard a guess, I would say GW is leaving money on the table not expanding armies after a while.  Many new collectors often wait for these milestone release waves or occasionally become enamored with an additional wave unit that finally has them start an army.  I did it with Primaris space marines with the expansion of Phobos (the scout, tacticool looking armor) marines.  Heck, my Slaves to Darkness army was initiated in part by the announcement of a Start Collecting and new battletome.

I personally think a combination of new factions and expansions with the occasional refresh to existing factions is probably the most optimal way to make money in a miniatures wargame.  There's probably a time when there gets to be too many factions and/or a faction becomes too bloated with units.  Which I think arguments in 40k can be made for both occurring.  For Age of Sigmar, I don't think there are too many factions, and I also don't think any faction is too bloated with units yet.  Though, I think the number of factions is getting there, but many a faction could use a second wave infusion of models.

I think you are right. But I have the impression that GW is hunting for people like you or me, or meta switchers, more than the previous less intense players with a main army and weaker ties to the hobby. For all that AoS is meant to be more casual friendly (or it was), those narrow ranges don’t work well with casual players. It is more of an investment to start a new army than to add units, and for some armies there isn’t much room to keep collecting. In other words, we might be in whale hunting season.

4 hours ago, Doko said:

Is the army with more monotone aesthetical(all nude dwarfs)

Fyreslayers need some big as cavalry,armored dwarfs,or a join tome together other dwarfs,but need something

The latter.  Currently dwarves are in an odd spot, since they have the same themes as in WHFB but split across 3 factions. Something similar happened to wood elves. I think this is a mistake, as the factions combined would have amazing variety. Just don’t mess them complete,y with keywords...

[rosa]

I personally have the latter impression.

In every wargaming store I have been before lockdown (germany), there still were plenty of lumineth boxes.  The same story online.

For me it seems that the early lumineth second wave shall make them quickly more popular and prevent them for being a financial mised opportunity.

[JackStreicher]

54 minutes ago, rosa said:

I personally have the latter impression.

In every wargaming store I have been before lockdown (germany), there still were plenty of lumineth boxes.  The same story online.

For me it seems that the early lumineth second wave shall make them quickly more popular and prevent them for being a financial mised opportunity.

I can confirm that.

___
 

I don‘t mind GW expanding an army on the contrary even, yet deliberately making the initial release small (though all models are likely already produced or are close to being finished) to force more books down our throats within another 3 months is mean feels a hell lot like EA and the way they handle DLCs and new games

[LordAlpharius]

No one is forcing books down your throat so I suggest you drop the persecution complex.   

[JackStreicher]

Strange lag-doublepost

Edited January 3, 2021 by JackStreicher
DP

[JackStreicher]

42 minutes ago, LordAlpharius said:

No one is forcing books down your throat so I suggest you drop the persecution complex.   

Or you learn how to not interpret every word literally while missing the entire message of the post.

So you implicitly claim that one is not forced to buy the book if one wants to play the entire faction (including. the „DLC“)? Interesting

Edited January 3, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Scurvydog]

The lumineth are strange, many wanted the "high elves of old" to return, many got excited by the pointy aelves teasers, then they were released and the very people the hype and marketing catered to, did en masse not really like, or outright disliked, a "large" portion of the small release.

It seems a majority finds the Eltharion and the dawnriders to be the best part of the release, followed by the wardens and Cathelar and sentinels. The mountain cow part really divides the waters though and turned many people off, including people I know in my gaming area, who were hyped and completely quit on them after seeing what was supposed to be the elite infantry and behemoth. They wanted "white lions 2.0" or "swordmasters 2.0" instead they got strange hammer aelves with pinatas on their heads. They wanted sleet dragons, eagles and chariots, yet got a big ol Bojack Cowman.

In my local stores and most used webshops getting the bonereapers was somewhat hard and things got sold out fast, yet the lumineth just sat there, plenty in stock long after release and still are.

I think the major problem was they either went too far or not far enough, attracting neither the old guard nor the new AoS fans who enjoy the more crazy armies. Perhaps going with an even stronger theme would have helped the lumineth, perhaps we will see it in a wave 2 with cloud surfers and camel riders. Putting more distance to the old high elves will at least reduce the comparisons to them over time.

[ian0delond]

There has been a huge delay between the reveal (January) and the initial release (June) of the LRL.

If covid didn't happen and we got a release in April, the hype would have sell a lot more boxes. The news about Lumineth completely died for several months and people were then planning to buy the new edition of 40k.

Hard to believe, but some disruptive incidents happened last year.

Edited January 3, 2021 by ian0delond

[KingBrodd]

I think everyone is a bit distracted to not consider that perhaps...Gamesworkshop... should release... A NEW MANCRUSHER MODEL FOR WARCRY OR UNDERWORLDS!!

[Ragest]

It’s normal you see lot of stock of lumineth for two main reasons.

1) Lack of physical matches because of the virus.

2) Still behind of the four powerhouses. (Ko, Seraphon, Tzeentch and Onedrop Stormcast.

So the casual players are taking it slowly, painting and preparing for the end of apocalypse and meta players are still fine with their actual armies.

[Enoby]

I do wonder how popular first wave Lumineth have been. I've heard it thrown around from shop owners that the vast majority of the product is sold in the first week or two, riding off the hype wave. Lumineth had their announcement in January, got half of a release with their special box, then got a controversial second part of the release in later on in the year.  Lots of things went wrong, but I think the worst thing for the release was the delay.

[Charleston]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I do wonder how popular first wave Lumineth have been. I've heard it thrown around from shop owners that the vast majority of the product is sold in the first week or two, riding off the hype wave. Lumineth had their announcement in January, got half of a release with their special box, then got a controversial second part of the release in later on in the year.  Lots of things went wrong, but I think the worst thing for the release was the delay.

It is really hard to judge and I would love to know this as well. I guess when Pandemy is gone, we will see more. There are so many factors here: The bundle Box releasing a shard of the army could be either a good way to establish them in some sort of teaser-release, or as well be a reason why some people stepped away from the release until wave 2 hit. The Alarith-Guys and big Spirits were controversial, yes, but to be honest, many people that complained were never about to start the army anyway. I assumed to see a load of conversions on these Models, but have not seen many to be honest. Rulewise the faction is already a quite interesting and distinct faction.  

[Thiagoma]

1 minute ago, Charleston said:

It is really hard to judge and I would love to know this as well. I guess when Pandemy is gone, we will see more. There are so many factors here: The bundle Box releasing a shard of the army could be either a good way to establish them in some sort of teaser-release, or as well be a reason why some people stepped away from the release until wave 2 hit. The Alarith-Guys and big Spirits were controversial, yes, but to be honest, many people that complained were never about to start the army anyway. I assumed to see a load of conversions on these Models, but have not seen many to be honest. Rulewise the faction is already a quite interesting and distinct faction.  

One of the reasons for not seeing a lot of Battlecows conversions is because not a whole lot of people use then.

Those that didnt like Alarith for obvious reasons, but also you can arge that the most optimal lists are usually Vanari or Vanari+Teclis.  While the cow itself is hard to see conversions, the Hammer bros are headswaped a lot . I would say about 50% of the pictures of then on Lumineth groups are converted.  Same goes to the mage.

[Ragest]

Vanari + Alarith mix works surprisingly well for me.

Stuff hitting at -2, tons of bodies, mobile hero to help you in hero focused battleplans, easily two drops and the chance to choose if you want to deny damage either by hit debuff or ignoring rend. 

[Charleston]

3 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

One of the reasons for not seeing a lot of Battlecows conversions is because not a whole lot of people use then.

Those that didnt like Alarith for obvious reasons, but also you can arge that the most optimal lists are usually Vanari or Vanari+Teclis.  While the cow itself is hard to see conversions, the Hammer bros are headswaped a lot . I would say about 50% of the pictures of then on Lumineth groups are converted.  Same goes to the mage.

Ok, I guess I am not enough around Lumineth Groups yet because I really didn´t hit on many of the hammer boy conversions. I actually didn´t knew they don´t see much play, tought they are quite decent unit.

[Thiagoma]

Have seen then with this headswaps: Phoenix Guard, Shadow Warrior (looks pretty awesome), only the bull mask,  Vanari helmets (infantary and cavalry), Helmet with plume bit on top,  and bloodbowl elf faces to name a few.

[silverstu]

I think the Lumineth will just get the 2 characters - it brings them in line size with most recent full army releases. On release each army seems to get 4 unit boxes, a large box, centrepiece pox, 4 character packs and a mounted character.  Lumineth are short a character and a mounted character.

Kharadron  -                 Lumineth.               Idoneth                        Ossiarchs

Arkanauts     -               Wardens.                Reavers                        Mortek Guard

 Thunderers -              Sentinels                  Thralls                            Deathriders

Skyriggers -                    Dawn Riders.       Akhelian Guard      Stalkers

Gunhauler-                   Alarith.                      Allopex                         Gothizzar Harvester

Frigate -                          Big Cow                   Leviadon                      Mortek Crawler

Ironclad.  -                    Teclis.                          Eidolon                        Katakros

Admiral  -                       Eltharion.               Soulrender                   Boneshaper

Khemist-                        Scinari                      Soulscryer                  Soulmason

Navigator-                    Stone Mage.          Tidecaster                   Soulreaper

Endrin Master-          ? [wind mage].       Lotann                          Vokmortian

Brok-                                ?[tyrion].                  Volturnos.                   Arch-Kavalos

 

Maybe - Endrinmaster in harness. - ?? The odd faction has an extra character or can use older models but this looks like the template GW uses to build a faction. To me it gives a solid base0 there is enough units/models but not a lot of room to manoeuvre and you have toile all the models in a faction, lose a unit you don't like/isn't effective and they get very small. 

How they expand beyond this -who knows - those 4 look like large complete factions they could add to with new units or build complimentary factions beside.

The smaller model count factions like fyreslayers, FEC etc - need either expanded or buddied up with another faction. I think Sylvaneth will get "expanded" through Kurnothi, Fyreslayers maybe through an allied new Dwarf faction. Maybe they will look at mini alliances within Grand Alliances as way of blending the model ranges together..

[Juicy]

can we atleast get another stormcast hero please its been a while

[Neverchosen]

I so excitedly assumed that the cloud rider was part of a unit. I thought they would be the Lumineth equivilant of Skyfires but alas everyone points out it much more likely a hero/mage. 

[Thiagoma]

1 minute ago, Neverchosen said:

I so excitedly assumed that the cloud rider was part of a unit. I thought they would be the Lumineth equivilant of Skyfires but alas everyone points out it much more likely a hero/mage. 

We dont know, you may be right. While the tome do mention wizards on clouds, nothing stops it from beeing a unit. 3 Lumineth units got Wizards as their leader and AoS has some units that count as wizards like sisters of the thorn, so dont give up on hope!

[LuminethMage]

2 hours ago, Charleston said:

Ok, I guess I am not enough around Lumineth Groups yet because I really didn´t hit on many of the hammer boy conversions. I actually didn´t knew they don´t see much play, tought they are quite decent unit.

No you are not. He is one of the people who hates those, so he is overstating it. There are a lot of conversions,  but a quick look at places like Instagram can show you it’s nothing like 50%. The Stoneguard are controversial, but there also people out there who really like them, and went into the Lumineth because of those. But they  definitely have been disappointing for a significant part of the old HE players who expected something different. 

There are also viable mixed lists. It might not the best possible way to play the Lumineth at a 2day tournament, but if you look at what people are playing quite successfully, there are several mixed lists in there.

Edit: 

23 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I so excitedly assumed that the cloud rider was part of a unit. I thought they would be the Lumineth equivilant of Skyfires but alas everyone points out it much more likely a hero/mage. 

Here I think @Thiagoma is absolutely right, if you look at the short story where they appear in the Battletome, them being equivalent to the Skyfires might even be slightly more likely than them being a single hero. At least no reason to give up hope on that just yet, if that’s what you want : ) 

Edited January 3, 2021 by LuminethMage

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

The rarity of Lumineth might also be tied to the price of their models.  I am usually price insensitive anymore when it comes GW, but even I had to cut back on what I wanted due to the price Lumineth.  I still don't consider that initial boxed set to be worth much more than a Start Collecting and a regular Battetome.  I actually thought at that asking price it was going to include the pocket sized battletome.  If AoS 3rd ed does happen this year and GW had a bunch in the warehouse, that would have been a good way to clear stock and increase apparent value of that box.

 

It appears to be that Lumineth are positioned to become the most compartmentalized (read: faction made up of smaller factions) faction of all AoS.  Even surpassing Stormcast chambers.  LRL are set up to have no less than 6 subfactions (Teclis, Mountain, River, Cloud, Zenith, Tyrion).  It is entirely possible GW might make this faction one of extremes with throw-back high-elf inspired units, such as the current Vanari, while including some of the more daring AoS units hinted at with Alarth and teaser images. 

I think there a decent change this faction may end up as one of the larger ones (sorry everybody else in advance) just through this compartmentalization.  Even going pretty bare bones, Lumineth would have about 3 times the number of units to fill in everything.  I can also see GW pivoting toward creating more Teclis/Tyrion focused units as a way to lure in those more keen on the old high-elf aesthetic. 

Even now, prospective players can ignore the Alarith (Mountain aspect) very easily.  It makes for very few unit options, but those units cover the rank and file trinity (line, cavalry and shooting).  I think all GW has to do is throw in some more high-elf inspired Leaders and one or two elite type units and there could be a number of players that might as well rip the elemental aspects portion right out their tome.  Especially when GW gets around to the Tyrion side of the Lumineth.

As a fan of the elemental aspects stuff, I think there is a chance that each get a few units per aspect and see little from there on.  I think the consensus is that they likely aren't super popular.  With them not being popular, I could easily see GW moving away from adding more once established.  Which as a fan could be the worst of two worlds.  It could be entirely possible Lumineth explode in number of model kits, but for any given elemental aspect they are super anemic.  So the internet (which I think has gotten so very overly sensitive to not getting noticed by senpai especially 40k) complain even more about constant aelf and Lumineth releases.  While at the same time, anyone trying to play an army based on one or more of the elemental aspects feels constantly starved and as ignored as duardin appear to be right now.

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Juicy said:

can we atleast get another stormcast hero please its been a while

Or how about some skaven models instead😜

Edited January 3, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[KingBrodd]

Well they're going to be unveiling the Anniversary Miniatures this week!! 

This image in the backgrounds looks Idoneth but that of course doesnt mean much but fingers and fins crossed for you guys!!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/03/this-week-in-warhammer-stomping-gits-birthdays-and-more/

[Nezzhil]

FaQs for 40k without releasing the AoS FaQs is the best joke I heard this year. Hahahahaha