The Rumour Thread

[Greybeard86]

20 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I agree with this, I’d actually be more inclined to buy other factions lore books too if that was the focus.

 

3 minutes ago, Overread said:

However if you listen only to that market segment what happens is your casual and new gamers end up picking up the rules for the game - because that's essential  - but not the lore. Because each time you think of the lore its a choice - lorebook or new models. And new models will often trump the lore book. The result is you end up with more and more generations of gamers with less connection to the games actual lore.

It seems that you want to "educate" gamers against their will

The question is the function of "lorebooks" and "rules". Clearly, lorebooks are a way for people to get invested in the hobby. But lots of people would not buy them (what is the point?) of their own volition. Sneaking in the lore in the rules books has worked very well for GW over the years. I remember reading the short stories in the DoW army book and thinking that they were a nice touch. In short, I agree.

That said, no one will buy the same lore book every 1-2 years, or every edition. So GW keeps shuffling the rules and re-printing those books time and again. As long as we buy, all is good. I wonder, though, how many people won't just use wahapedia or find a pdf (it isn't hard, it was practically shoved into my hands).

Solution? Offer far more "free" online content, and then sell worthwhile lorebooks (with poster maps and what not, things that people love). So that there isn't a trade off between reading the lore and buying models. Then, offer the rules for free. I don't know, though, if this "solution" makes the most money to GW. But the codex / battletome reshuffling leaves a very bad taste in everyone's mouths.

[Overread]

Battletome reshuffling leaves a bad taste depending on what's added. Eg go to the Slaanesh section right now and even though the book isn't that old (and has been blighted with Corona shutting down games for most of its lifespan last year) most are eager for the book. Adding a big chunk of new models rebuilds the army and a new book makes perfect sense. GW has also pushed the story forward which helps generate new lore interests and story components for old and new fans. Basically everyone (lore and rules fans) are getting an update.

AoS did have some bad updates early on in the 0.5-2.0 period - eg Khorne got several books in quick succession; but that was far more a function of the games fundamental state changing very quickly. The same is true of Necromunda - again we've had this piecemeal release of books, but over the same span of time the game has changed from a "one rule book" focus to a "each faction gets a book" type release. With a big increase in model support and diversity. 

 

 

I do get what you mean in that people don't like buying more and more books, esp for those who collect them or who have lots of armies. However at the same time dont' forget GW isn't just servicing them or us. Heck a lot of gamers don't go online all that often - many might only glance at the news pages once a month or when they buy something direct. Providing lots of online free lore might get missed or it can end up like the Malign Portents - just outright vanishing without a word when something gets updated/changed. 

[Baron Klatz]

Not a bad taste to everyone. For people like me I want all my content, both rules and lore, in one physical place and can enjoy the update to update as I see the lore building between each new iteration of the tome and chronicle the moving progress of the setting.

As long as there's a good chunk of new meaty content there I don't have a problem with it.(battle plans, skirmish points and art tips nice bonuses too)

Slapping "free online" doesn't really appeal to me though. I remember when I joined a AoS project discord and they gave me a free pdf of the first Flesh Eaters Court tome to read. I deleted it instead, felt dirty not paying for something official like that.

Edit: Oof, the Malign Portents one is such a great example of why online stuff is unreliable. Been out for 2 and a half years and trying to track down those short stories is near impossible. The narrative campaign events are straight up gone.

People will meticulously copy rules from multiple editions like a duardin recording his savings but lore can be lost to the aetheric winds with how skewed the competitive scene is to the smaller narrative one.

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Baron Klatz

[Kramer]

I went from disliking the idea of a series of Morathi books with faction rules. 

but I’ve come around. It’s great fun. 

First reason is that the alternative is they keep the rules until the next ghb and release them all together. Because you’d need to work that far in advance if you’re updating most if not all. so why not let people enjoy it in the mean time. 

secondly, where else would you put a update like the slaves to darkness got? It’s fun and thematic (even though apparently riddled with flaws) but not game changing by any means. it could be in a white dwarf I suppose. But I’d rather have it with the lore book. 

lastly and more importantly. Because it ties the lore progression to the game progression. How cool and amazing is that! 
And yes it’s absolutely possible to look at this cynically and judge it to be a cash grab. But we don’t know the motivation behind it, so I’m going to be positive about it. 

[Fulkes]

26 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I went from disliking the idea of a series of Morathi books with faction rules. 

but I’ve come around. It’s great fun. 

First reason is that the alternative is they keep the rules until the next ghb and release them all together. Because you’d need to work that far in advance if you’re updating most if not all. so why not let people enjoy it in the mean time. 

secondly, where else would you put a update like the slaves to darkness got? It’s fun and thematic (even though apparently riddled with flaws) but not game changing by any means. it could be in a white dwarf I suppose. But I’d rather have it with the lore book. 

lastly and more importantly. Because it ties the lore progression to the game progression. How cool and amazing is that! 
And yes it’s absolutely possible to look at this cynically and judge it to be a cash grab. But we don’t know the motivation behind it, so I’m going to be positive about it. 

The Morathi book was more than just lore and faction rules too. It updated some warscrolls that desperately needed to be updated, added lore that actually changed the setting (take notes 40k, THAT is how you do lore updates), and included a campaign to play out the events.

It's a well rounded book that supported five different armies and doesn't force you to pick it up unless you need the stuff in it (assuming they every get the warscrolls updated on the website that is).

[eciu]

So the entitled newly released elves are already getting 2nd wave, while proper dwarfs (or FS and KO) never got one ? 

 

pffff

Edited January 2, 2021 by eciu

[SleeperAgent]

3 minutes ago, eciu said:

So the entitled newly released elves are already getting 2nd wave, while proper dwarfs (or FS and KO) never got one ? 

 

pffff

Gotta sell more models if you want GW to make new stuff.

[Beliman]

Just now, eciu said:

So the entitled elves are already getting 2nd wave, while FS and KO never got one ? 

 

pffff

Typical pointy-ears favoritism.
 For Grugni,  Valaya, Grimnir and  Aethermatics; someone should teach them a lesson as we did in war of vengeance!

Btw, maybe they will only recieve two heroes in the next Broken Realm books. Maybe we need to wait a bit to call it as a "2nd wave".

[Fulkes]

12 minutes ago, eciu said:

So the entitled newly released elves are already getting 2nd wave, while proper dwarfs (or FS and KO) never got one ? 

 

pffff

Didn't KO gain a character in Aether War? And both KO and FS are on their second books.

Meanwhile IDK still has their first and only book, no new models and still need things to be fixed. But sure, the beards have it worse.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Fulkes

[eciu]

22 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

Gotta sell more models if you want GW to make new stuff.

Sure thing, and ? 

Plus wasn't KO (rumored) to sell extremaly well (at least on the first release, before the their rules were botched several times). 

[Kramer]

@eciu @Beliman @Fulkes @SleeperAgent

Are you reenacting the start of the war of the beard or something? 🧔⚔️💥🪓

[eciu]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

@eciu @Beliman @Fulkes @SleeperAgent

Are you reenacting the start of the war of the beard or something? 🧔⚔️💥🪓

But they started it! 
 

😜

[Jeremierty]

 As much as I'd love to dissert about the awesome new lumineths teases, I thought It would be glad to share this for our chaosy friends. Seems like new nurgle awesomeness is around the horizon

[JackStreicher]

2 minutes ago, Jeremierty said:

 As much as I'd love to dissert about the awesome new lumineths teases, I thought It would be glad to share this for our chaosy friends. Seems like new nurgle awesomeness is around the horizon

They don‘t say it will happen.

[Fulkes]

15 minutes ago, Kramer said:

@eciu @Beliman @Fulkes @SleeperAgent

Are you reenacting the start of the war of the beard or something? 🧔⚔️💥🪓

I mean if I need to shave a stunty....

More seriously I feel like some armies need updated books to get them into the modern design space (IDK, Nurgle, almost all of Death, ECT) before worrying too much about new models. Lumineth are in a weird place because we all know they launched with maybe a quarter of an army, but most established armies need their rules fixed more than they need a large model update.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Fulkes

[Kramer]

3 hours ago, Fulkes said:

I mean if I need to shave a stunty

Harsh bro!  
 

I don’t think lumineth got released with a quarter of the army anymore than stormcast was. 

But I agree that it’s likely to be a fast second tome.

 

Edir. Second thought regarding the lumineth teases. I think a few Warcry warbands must be on the horizon as well. And they opened the floor to order allegiance and unseen models with the khanite shadowstalkers. 
so a ‘teaser warband’ of teclis warriors wouldn’t be a bad marketing strategy. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Kramer

[amysrevenge]

A small factor that might influence the gut reaction to new Lumineth Realmlords and the timing of the releases.

Unless you own them, you've probably never seen them in action.  I don't own any, and still haven't seen a single Lumineth model in-person: neither on sprue, nor sea of gray, nor painted.  Parts of the world vary I suppose, but I haven't had the opportunity to throw dice since March.

Which makes them seem "just released yesterday" new.  Even though the first box set came out about 6 months ago (which is forever in Warhammer time).  But in a normal year, they would have been played at local stores, and in garages, and on kitchen tables, and at many marquee internationally-covered events.  We'd have already had all the endless arguments, backed with empirical evidence, of exactly how good or bad they are.  We'd already be tired of it, and on to talking about the next thing.  In a normal year, they'd be old news.

But instead, they are still, 6 months later, "brand new". 

Now, I'm not saying that a second wave of models and possible new book in less than a year would be normal or anything (not counting SCE of course).  I'm just saying that the reaction to it has to be coloured at least a bit by the circumstances.

Edited January 2, 2021 by amysrevenge

[Fulkes]

Yeah, circumstances are definitely coloring expectations.

IIRC didn't the Lumineth limited run box drop upwards to 6 months before the book did? I suspect the book was supposed to be out within a month of that and that's creating a bit of a knock on effect as well.

[amysrevenge]

Yeah there was a delay there.  Did a quick bit of googling (dates might be off by a week, as I might have mixed "pre-order" date with "announcement of pre-order coming next week" date).

Teaser video was 23-Jan

Another teaser video 04-Apr

Pre-order for the initial box was 27-June

Pre-order for the full release was split over 05-Sep and 12-Sep

In addition to still being brand new, it feels like they've been coming out in dribs and drabs forever.

[Acrozatarim]

Lumineth also had an unusually tiny number of warscrolls with their initial release, iirc, even by small faction standards.

[Thiagoma]

I wouldnt go as far as saying Lumineth was a 1/4 army (even tho we only got 1 out of 4 temples) but the book felt incomplete. Very small number of Warscrolls, few models and lacking some key pieces (like a freaking generic hero).

On a positive note, the fact that Alarith (moo) is made out of only 3 kits makes it easy for GW to release a new temple in a book like Broken Realms instead of a whole new Battletome. That said i wont be surprised if a new book is on the way.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

Btw, maybe they will only recieve two heroes in the next Broken Realm books. Maybe we need to wait a bit to call it as a "2nd wave".

Yeah, it remains to be seen just how accurate calling it a "second wave" is.  It may not be much more of that than the dirigible suit endrinmaster was for KO (although I'd love to see proper second waves for both factions, and Fyreslayers too).

[OkayestDM]

I'm curious as to whether or not the Slaanesh expansion is going to prove indicative of their "battletome update" strategy going forward. 

Most folks aren't thrilled about the idea of a rapid turnover with an existing battletome, but seem to be far more inclined to go along with it if that update is accompanied by a big release for their faction.

I haven't followed the 40k releases very closely, so I have no idea if they can shed any light on the plausibility of the theory, but it's certainly something to keep an eye on. 

[Neverchosen]

I feel like the Lumineth release will tie to Broken Realms and that the Mounted Model is possibly Tyrion. However, I could absolutely be wrong and it could be more substantial. What was the biggest release to come out of Psychic Awakening? I know Admech got some cool new things but that is pretty much the beginning and end of my knowledge of new units being released. I know some Eldar models were updated and a few named characters got updates as well.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

16 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I feel like the Lumineth release will tie to Broken Realms and that the Mounted Model is possibly Tyrion. However, I could absolutely be wrong and it could be more substantial. What was the biggest release to come out of Psychic Awakening? I know Admech got some cool new things but that is pretty much the beginning and end of my knowledge of new units being released. I know some Eldar models were updated and a few named characters got updates as well.

For Psychic Awakening, the big releases were the Aeldari sculpts, the special Space Wolf/Ork dual box (which was mostly notable for the two special characters in it), and the AdMech stuff. Not a lot of new units.