The Rumour Thread

[LuminethMage]

6 hours ago, Lord of the Isle said:

Wd anyone else be happy if Tyrion aelves were fairly normal elves with amazing swordsmanship, knighthood and attitude?

Essentially an army of combat heroes

If they don’t release Tyrion alongside another Temple, then that’s pretty likely what going to happen. If they don’t make a major change from what’s in the current Battletome. 

The Tyrionic side is described exactly like that in the Battletome. Warriors that strike swiftly and surely. Lords and Ladies, champions, marshals and masters at arms that lead by example. Knights, charioteers, scouts, artillery that fight alongside the Vanari units we already know.

There could be a heavy knights unit with monstrous mounts for example, but nothing in the Battletome hints at the Tyrionic side not being normal elves.  

[Lord of the Isle]

I agree the aesthetic would ideally need to be an advance on ‘High Elves 2.0’. Far Eastern influences so far might indicate Ronin / Samurai perhaps, somewhat as attempted by LOTR films (unless that’s its own problem). I wonder whether a sort of Moorcock - Dark Elves but more or less good style might work given Tyrion’s complex psyche and record. Like, bright and shiny, but merciless, sharp, and scary. Feanorian

EDIT: Kind of that 'I emit so much light my enemies die by me just existing and frowning at them but I also have really questionable / terrible judgment and morality' vibe please

Edited October 23, 2020 by Lord of the Isle

[whispersofblood]

2 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

Sorry but your argument is a pure lie. If you are a shoot player, well, but please, you don't need to say lies to try to argument that the game is balanced because it isn't.

I'm a full destruction player and none of them have tools to avoid been destroyed in a double turn of shooting and you need to be a very good player to win against any of the shoot armies. And I know that death armies have the same problem.

The real problem is the low interaction versus shooting, if an army have the enough input damage to remove easy 300-400 points per turn you, as destruction player, don't have enough tools to win. I need to do more things and be a better player to obtain the same results as a shooting army that can crush my heroes without opposition.

Activation wars was a silly solution to avoid the alpha strike meta. They could improve combos, improve defense armies or anything that need more brain for the players but be equal effective than make that the other player can't play.

That's a bit aggressive...

I actually play several factions across the grand alliances and have played and sold many more. I've just sorted out my responses to the shifting tides for my last list, and am tracking down the models as we speak for my Big Waagh list.

There is difference between making something worse (ie; pointing or nerfing it) and making it strategically not optimal anymore. One lets people play with the toys they like, with some strategic modification. The other gives us what happened to KO in the first instance. 

Further just because you don't have a specific rule against "X" doesn't make it in interactive. Weapon load outs are an interaction, taking Chaos Shields or prioritizing heroes with DDR against MW is an interaction. But, yes if you show up on the day with little to no forthought you will lose. We should want that. 

Shooting as lots of indirect interaction the biggest is MV, the next is alternative deployments as a proxy for MV. Another is wound count. Monsters with generous wound tables are also good against shooting. There is lots of room to play around shooting, tbh you just sound like a moaner who isn't very good at the thinking part of the game. Or wants to live in a state of permanence. 🤷🏾‍♂️

The activation wars turned out to be quite simply to play around it just required doing things and taking units that didn't get taken because there was no pressure on the default build to need those skills. For example the shift from Witches to Sisters of Slaughter in the mainstream. The re-emergence of shootcast instead of the default Sureheart Exo/Seq bombs or even just including shooting at all. It also made knowing how to screen properly into a highly competitive skill. 

But yes if your idea of tactics and strategy is getting into combat as soon as possible and hoping you do more dmg to the enemy then they do to you. Well yes the activation wars broke you, and Tbh good that's what it's was there for. 

The only shooting army that structurally was over the top was conflag-changehost the mobility and the dmg was just too much for the game to handle. Ironically it is also one of the most mentally demanding builds in the game at the high end. Skinks are up there but for different reasons all together and some factions are actually quite immune to skinks if they choose to be. 

Every faction basically runs two equations. How fast it does 150 unsaved dmg and how slow is takes 150 unsaved dmg. There is obviously some nuance in how factions do that, but that is the basics. Once you figure that out for your book and the factions you face the choices you need to make become clearer and easier to predict what changes you need to make as things change. 

[Overread]

This appeared from a UK GW store - details about the Warhammer Day offerings. Basically the same as their "anniversary store opening" events. 

There are no further details so we don't know if GW will run these same deals through their webstore (I would expect it this year since many won't travel to stores and many UK regions are going into tighter lockdowns so its not the time to encourage gatherings at stores). 
If it the same stock as last year in terms of the bag then its a good quality bag with enough room to fit a standard GW major release box (eg duel army sets; Indomitus; Warcry ect  ergo the big boxes)

 

[Sleboda]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

They do not listen to playtesters.

That was my feeling as one as well. I had numerous times where I pointed out that a rule was really, really poorly written and would lead to arguments - even suggesting better wording - only to be told, in essence, that it was too much of a bother to improve it (again, even though I had given them better wording!).

[Ogregut]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

This appeared from a UK GW store - details about the Warhammer Day offerings. Basically the same as their "anniversary store opening" events. 

There are no further details so we don't know if GW will run these same deals through their webstore (I would expect it this year since many won't travel to stores and many UK regions are going into tighter lockdowns so its not the time to encourage gatherings at stores). 
If it the same stock as last year in terms of the bag then its a good quality bag with enough room to fit a standard GW major release box (eg duel army sets; Indomitus; Warcry ect  ergo the big boxes)

 

As every warhammer store in Wales is now closed for the next 17 days I hope they put this online 

[Overread]

Aye I'm hoping the same. I'm also hoping that the DoK Vs Slaanesh boxed set goes on pre-order that day because, if it does then I'm in for some of those rewards. Otherwise I'm waiting on that set coming out. Considering its a november release and the pre-order date does tend to be determine the "month" GW classes a release in I think I won't get lucky.

 

Still I can't complain, I got the bag last year with Ossiarchs when they landed at just the right time for my local store. 

[Ogregut]

I would love it to go on pre order next weekend, fingers crossed for good news on Sunday! 

[alghero81]

One solution for certain armies against shooting would be to make monsters really scary and resilient. It would improve few armies, make centre pieces something more than pretty decorations and give more options to other armies. BoC may mean something again, Leviadon may become a new option for Idoneth, etc

But to achieve this monsters need a proper role change rather than random warscroll changes.

[Eldarain]

I really like those new Khainites. Might have to get some for old world purposes.

Does anyone think they might move to expanding the alternate activations of the combat phase to the hero and shooting phase? The Hero phase in particular would be interesting as the choice between offense and buff activation would be more complex.

Could be quite cool. Especially if they use it as an opportunity to expand the options in those phases for single note factions.

[novakai]

What a minute how do they give point to Warcry warbands again?, the new ones don’t have them on their store warscroll. I knew the previous ones where in the slaves to darkness tome.

i though it be similar to how they do underworld warbands?

[Ogregut]

Just looked at the calender and there are 4 Saturdays in November and 4 major releases we know are happening in November 

Broken realms and blood and shadow

2 new codexs 

Bloodbowl 

The new paint handle and I'm guessing the Xmas stuff. 

Add to this the LOTR bat's they announced and there is still the rest of the marine and necron stuff to come. 

November looks to be a busy month. 

If it was me doing the scheduling I would have broken realms up first to build on the khainate buzz from warcry, then some 40k, bloodbowl and them the Xmas stuff to lead into Dec. 

Any predictions? 

[Coyote]

Dec FAQs update, needless points increases and bewildering points decreases.

[Baron Klatz]

14 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

The Tyrionic side is described exactly like that in the Battletome. Warriors that strike swiftly and surely. Lords and Ladies, champions, marshals and masters at arms that lead by example.

Tbf that describes every aelven faction from Sylvaneth to Deepkin.

They all do courts and masters at arms that lead by example be it the Jade Island courts where the Treelords entreat eachother and their goddess while reverant retainers hold the tails of their flowing golden leaf capes to Deepkin leaders charging into battle with their eel knights to show their eyeless lower castes on the glory of honorable battle.

That's just the aelf standard if they're not at home in the wilds or shadows.

I suspect Tyrion will mirror Teclis, as is the way of Hysh, by bringing in a few more basic Vanari but a new fantastical temple as well like the Zenith cloud spirits, their sages that fly to the heavens on cloud-back and their warriors that turn incorporeal as the Alarith turn mountain resilient.

It'd solve the "angelic aelves of light" we read about back in 2018 with Tyrion leading their brand of angels from the sky/zenith.

Though who knows, the Lumineth tome gave so many teasers of the strange spirits and magic-changed aelves there, like the river temples who breathe underwater, that we could get any crazy new aelves from it.

2 hours ago, Ogregut said:

November looks to be a busy month. 

If it was me doing the scheduling I would have broken realms up first to build on the khainate buzz from warcry, then some 40k, bloodbowl and them the Xmas stuff to lead into Dec. 

Fingers crossed! I really want that tome.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[LuminethMage]

23 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Tbf that describes every aelven faction from Sylvaneth to Deepkin.

They all do courts and masters at arms that lead by example be it the Jade Island courts where the Treelords entreat eachother and their goddess while reverant retainers hold the tails of their flowing golden leaf capes to Deepkin leaders charging into battle with their eel knights to show their lower castes of the glory of honorable battle.

That's just the aelf standard if they're not at home in the wilds or shadows.

I suspect Tyrion will mirror Teclis, as is the way of Hysh, by bringing in a few more basic Vanari but a new fantastical temple as well like the Zenith cloud spirits, their sages that fly to the heavens on cloud-back and their warriors that turn incorporeal as the Alarith turn mountain resilient.

It'd solve the "angelic aelves of light" we read about back in 2018 with Tyrion leading their brand of angels from the sky/zenith.

Though who knows, the Lumineth tome gave so many teasers of the strange spirits and magic-changed aelves there, like the river temples who breathe underwater, that we could get any crazy new aelves from it.

Fingers crossed! I really want that tome.

What I described there is specifically what’s said in the BT about the Tyrionic forces in comparison to the Teclian one. So while you are right that generally elves are described like that, in this case it’s the specific description of the Tyrionic part of the Lumineth.

I mentioned that if they release Tyrion along with Temples its a different story altogether. The temples don’t have that much to do with Tyrion though. They are more of a Teclian institution. Based on his teachings (via Celennar) and founded by mages hand picked by Teclis. That doesn’t mean of course they can’t release another Temple with Tyrion together. 

The angelic aelves of light are already here, it’s the current Lumineth you see. They are described as angelic beings of light several times in the BT. This is the very first sentence in the Battletome: “The Lumineth are often mistaken for angelic beings of pure light, for they glow with the glorious power of Hysh.”

There is a possibility they still change things and bring out winged elves or whatever. But reading through the BT I think it’s more likely that the elves you’ll see are pretty normal, while the the spirit forces and mounts could look more fantastical. A Zenith mage could look like pure light, that’s about the only hint on the book about more strange looking aelves. And Tyrion’s appearance could be more fantastical if they want to go down that road with him. 

[Icarion]

18 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

What I described there is specifically what’s said in the BT about the Tyrionic forces in comparison to the Teclian one. So while you are right that generally elves are described like that, in this case it’s the specific description of the Tyrionic part of the Lumineth.

I mentioned that if they release Tyrion along with Temples its a different story altogether. The temples don’t have that much to do with Tyrion though. They are more of a Teclian institution. Based on his teachings (via Celennar) and founded by mages hand picked by Teclis. That doesn’t mean of course they can’t release another Temple with Tyrion together. 

The angelic aelves of light are already here, it’s the current Lumineth you see. They are described as angelic beings of light several times in the BT. This is the very first sentence in the Battletome: “The Lumineth are often mistaken for angelic beings of pure light, for they glow with the glorious power of Hysh.”

There is a possibility they still change things and bring out winged elves or whatever. But reading through the BT I think it’s more likely that the elves you’ll see are pretty normal, while the the spirit forces and mounts could look more fantastical. A Zenith mage could look like pure light, that’s about the only hint on the book about more strange looking aelves. And Tyrion’s appearance could be more fantastical if they want to go down that road with him. 

The vanari side of the army seems to be the more Tyrion centric side and will likely be expanded in some small ways, while the Aelemental temples are more teclis' area of expertise. 

That said, due to Tyrions pact with the Perimeter inimical, I would expect that if any of the Aelemental temples to be closely associated with Tyrion, it would be Zenith, and that's where we might see more "out-there" Aelves, as Zenith path Aleves. My reasoning is that the Perimeter Inimical of Hysh seems to be one and the same with the "sun" aspect of hysh. It is the spirit of Light. And I've been struggling to think of what the zenith version of the Spirit of the Mountain would be if not the Permeter inimical/celennar themselves. Nothing says each Temple needs to follow the same footprint of Alarith, with foot troops, support hero, and Aelemental spirit, but that seems as reasonable an expectation as any, and if Zenith has a Spirit, I struggle to picture what it would be if not The perimeter or/and and Celennar. My inability to think up alternatives, doesn't preclude GW coming up with something crazy and wonderful, but for right now, my guess is that Zenith is going to be centered around Tyrion and Teclis and their bound spirits.

[Baron Klatz]

 

1 hour ago, LuminethMage said:

There is a possibility they still change things and bring out winged elves or whatever.

It'd fit the aelven flyer trend, Sylvaneth have Zephyrspites to give them winged flight, Khainites have their winged sisters and Malerion's Shadowkin have descriptions as being devil-like with wings.

So unless they stick to clouds it could go that way.

1 hour ago, LuminethMage said:

A Zenith mage could look like pure light, that’s about the only hint on the book about more strange looking aelves. 

Yeah that's consistent from what we got since Teclis showed up in "Pantheon" as a being of light in the Age of Myth. Then the Corebook furthered it by saying that aelves that attuned to the realm of light become such creatures themselves of living light.

Similar to Stormcasts with too much Azyr becoming living storms contained in armor or Fyreslayers that hoard Ur-gold runes turning into walking volcanoes.

1 hour ago, Athrawes said:

And I've been struggling to think of what the zenith version of the Spirit of the Mountain would be if not the Permeter inimical/celennar themselves.

I feel a similar creature like Celennar since they'd inhabit the celestial bodies as well. I assume the further you go away from the realm center the less the spirits will bother with looking like something recognizable since any creature by the edges will be supernatural as well.

Basically since the aelven rune in the perimeter inimical is "sailing" I see it as basically the Lumineth are journeying to the stars to meet alien beings roaming the aether.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, Athrawes said:

The vanari side of the army seems to be the more Tyrion centric side and will likely be expanded in some small ways, while the Aelemental temples are more teclis' area of expertise. 

That said, due to Tyrions pact with the Perimeter inimical, I would expect that if any of the Aelemental temples to be closely associated with Tyrion, it would be Zenith, and that's where we might see more "out-there" Aelves, as Zenith path Aleves. My reasoning is that the Perimeter Inimical of Hysh seems to be one and the same with the "sun" aspect of hysh. It is the spirit of Light. And I've been struggling to think of what the zenith version of the Spirit of the Mountain would be if not the Permeter inimical/celennar themselves. Nothing says each Temple needs to follow the same footprint of Alarith, with foot troops, support hero, and Aelemental spirit, but that seems as reasonable an expectation as any, and if Zenith has a Spirit, I struggle to picture what it would be if not The perimeter or/and and Celennar. My inability to think up alternatives, doesn't preclude GW coming up with something crazy and wonderful, but for right now, my guess is that Zenith is going to be centered around Tyrion and Teclis and their bound spirits.

Who knows. Zenith could be more closely associated with Tyrion for the reasons you mentioned. If you interpret it exactly as it’s in the book - Celennar (and therefore Teclis) is beyond the Zenith, so that could be another reason why the Zenith fits more with Tyrion. But, the Zenith could also be more on the Teclian side because it’s pretty similar to the Zenith of the old Teclimentary, and how the Zenith aelimentiri are described in the book, as beings of thought, not blood and flesh (and the behavior of the Zenith ambassador, which isn’t really Tyrionic). Or the Zenith is truly in the middle because you mastered both sides and represents an amalgam of the Sun and Moon spirit as you say. 

From the description, the River Temple seems to be the most Tyrionic of the four to me.

But then all this speculation is based on a few vague sentences in the book. So 🤷‍♂️ . I’m happy about any new Lumineth. 

@Baron Klatz As Athrawes wrote, the Sun Spirit is mentioned in the BT. Tyrion meets it in the Mythical Age. It’s called the Realm’s Edge and lives at the outward most area of Hysh (Perimeter Inimical). There is a pretty weird looking face on one of the chest plates of the Wardens which could show how the Sun Spirit will look like (another shows Celennar, another a moon motive, and another a sun motive). What could be a face of the Dragon-pheonix like being shown in the BT and on the Dawnrider banner is also on one of the chest plates. That’s another candidate. 

Celennar and other celestial bodies are beyond the Zenith, so I’m not so sure about that part. 

 

[Dreddships]

Speculation/Pessimism.

With all this price hike, I would not be surprised if the Christmas Battleforce boxes are going to be £150+, and/or are going to be a significantly worse saving that previous years. 

[JackStreicher]

17 minutes ago, Dreddships said:

Speculation/Pessimism.

With all this price hike, I would not be surprised if the Christmas Battleforce boxes are going to be £150+, and/or are going to be a significantly worse saving that previous years. 

That‘s a given at this point 😕

[Thaliontil]

9 hours ago, Ogregut said:

Just looked at the calender and there are 4 Saturdays in November and 4 major releases we know are happening in November 

Broken realms and blood and shadow

2 new codexs 

Bloodbowl 

The new paint handle and I'm guessing the Xmas stuff. 

Add to this the LOTR bat's they announced and there is still the rest of the marine and necron stuff to come. 

November looks to be a busy month. 

If it was me doing the scheduling I would have broken realms up first to build on the khainate buzz from warcry, then some 40k, bloodbowl and them the Xmas stuff to lead into Dec. 

Any predictions? 

I would love to have Broken Realms for the first week of November, but I have been looking at the Black Library releases and my prediction is that this weekend we are going to get the Deatwatch Supplement (as it would align with their novel, on pre-order for the 31st of October) and probably some of the missing Marines units from the codex (praying for some bladeguard veterans). Then, I would not be surprised if next week is Broken Realms, then Codex again and finally Blood Bowl with the battleforces.

Link to Black Library releases here:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/blacklibrarycomingsoon/

[Ogregut]

31 minutes ago, Thaliontil said:

I would love to have Broken Realms for the first week of November, but I have been looking at the Black Library releases and my prediction is that this weekend we are going to get the Deatwatch Supplement (as it would align with their novel, on pre-order for the 31st of October) and probably some of the missing Marines units from the codex (praying for some bladeguard veterans). Then, I would not be surprised if next week is Broken Realms, then Codex again and finally Blood Bowl with the battleforces.

Link to Black Library releases here:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/blacklibrarycomingsoon/

Ah damn, looks like you're right, I suppose 3 weeks in a row of AoS was unlikely

[KingBrodd]

I cannot wait for the Broken Realms release. Not even from the minis standpoint but just for a continuation of the story. Wrath of the Everchosen feels like an eternity ago now.

[alghero81]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

I cannot wait for the Broken Realms release. Not even from the minis standpoint but just for a continuation of the story. Wrath of the Everchosen feels like an eternity ago now.

I see this and I double. Other than that I want to see how factions will be expanded in preparation for AoS 3.0. New models? Rules? Factions? Warscrolls rewritten?

Basically what future awaits us.

Speaking of which there is no confirmation of a preview article or show on Warhammer day, Right?

[KingBrodd]

1 minute ago, alghero81 said:

I see this and I double. Other than that I want to see how factions will be expanded in preparation for AoS 3.0. New models? Rules? Factions? Warscrolls rewritten?

Basically what future awaits us.

Speaking of which there is no confirmation of a preview article or show on Warhammer day, Right?

No confirmation yet mate, I would be suprised if there wasnt though.