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To be honest I've never felt like War Cry acted as much of an entry level game for AoS. To me it always came off as AoS' equivalent of Necromunda, with the much narrower, very focused setting and the very specifically Chaos-themed releases surrounding it. It seems like they were caught off-guard by the success of Kill Team and a good way through development shifted gears to try and turn it into just that, so we ended up with this weird Frankenstein of a game that's halfway between Necromunda and Kill-Team - imagine if you could bring Space Marines, Tau or Eldar into the Underhive, rather than the Houses + GSC/Chaos cultists. As Neil says, the cost of it ramps up very quickly compared to AoS itself.

Being able to grab an AoS box of any army and utilise it always seemed like an afterthought and not by design in the same way it is for Kill-Team, that game including bog standard 40k units within it's sets.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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I am not sure if  it was because the response that it was all chaos warband was a bit murky that they decided to add the AoS units into the game. it did feel a bit tack on because the chaos warbands felt balance within each other but the AoS roster introduced a lot of units with extreme state lines

I felt like they could have done better if they had initially release warbands like the Khainite shadow stalker along with Stuff like Scions of the flame

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24 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

To be honest I've never felt like War Cry acted as much of an entry level game for AoS. To me it always came off as AoS' equivalent of Necromunda, with the much narrower, very focused setting and the very specifically Chaos-themed releases surrounding it. It seems like they were caught off-guard by the success of Kill Team and a good way through development shifted gears to try and turn it into just that, so we ended up with this weird Frankenstein of a game that's halfway between Necromunda and Kill-Team - imagine if you could bring Space Marines, Tau or Eldar into the Underhive, rather than the Houses + GSC/Chaos cultists. As Neil says, the cost of it ramps up very quickly compared to AoS itself.

Being able to grab an AoS box of any army and utilise it always seemed like an afterthought and not by design in the same way it is for Kill-Team, that game including bog standard 40k units within it's sets.

Yeah. I loved the idea of Warcry as a necromunda-type deal with distinct warbands. I don’t really like the direction it’s gone with the inclusion of AoS units. If it felt like it was meant to be that way from the start, I think I’d feel differently, but like you say it feels like an afterthought. 

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2 hours ago, Still-young said:

Yeah. I loved the idea of Warcry as a necromunda-type deal with distinct warbands. I don’t really like the direction it’s gone with the inclusion of AoS units. If it felt like it was meant to be that way from the start, I think I’d feel differently, but like you say it feels like an afterthought. 

Same as that, they could have really expanded the lore and model range like Necromunda, maybe with some resin characters and plastic expansion packs, would have made it more interesting in the long run, rather than tacking on the other AoS factions.

Really liked the first starter though, I thought it was great value. I think there is a place for an actual Warcry starter at the 60-70€ level, 2 warbands, book, dice, paper mat. 160€ is just too much for a starter box for a skirmish game.

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I'm curious, has any of you guys ever tried to email GW's team directly and asked for a simple motivational justification of why their 2+2=160EUR?

I mean something to the effect of "Hey guys, I've noticed the price doubled but there are 12 fewer models, 6 fewer buildings, no proofread and no cards. Could you be so kind to tell me where the value is given that I'm on the fence about it?" 

I was good about not buying GW this year. Not because I was "priced out" per se but because I felt like GW just wanted to get into my pants without buying me dinner first. But I was really looking forward to this box and while I can both afford it and probably justify it with the whole "I haven't spent cash on GW for 12+ months" it still feels like they just don't give a (blank) about me, you or anyone here.  

Also, I know the topic of the Old World is now synonymous to "Voldemort" and people more vile than nurgle himself crawl out of their holes to pull you into their toxic lairs, but, didn't they blow up the old system mainly because new people couldn't afford to join the hobby and it took 12 billion books to start playing? (Mind you I know I can play Warcry with just one book and a first starter and am only looking at the new books for the narrative quests) 

Edited by Groomy
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19 minutes ago, Groomy said:

I'm curious, has any of you guys ever tried to email GW's team directly and asked for a simple motivational justification of why their 2+2=160EUR?

I mean something to the effect of "Hey guys, I've noticed the price doubled but there are 12 fewer models, 6 fewer buildings, no proofread and no cards. Could you be so kind to tell me where the value is given that I'm on the fence about it?" 

I was good about not buying GW this year. Not because I was "priced out" per se but because I felt like GW just wanted to get into my pants without buying me dinner first. But I was really looking forward to this box and while I can both afford it and probably justify it with the whole "I haven't spent cash on GW for 12+ months" it still feels like they just don't give a (blank) about me, you or anyone here.  

Also, I know the topic of the Old World is now synonymous to "Voldemort" and people more vile than nurgle himself crawl out of their holes to pull you into their toxic lairs, but, didn't they blow up the old system mainly because new people couldn't afford to join the hobby and it took 12 billion books to start playing? (Mind you I know I can play with just one book and a first starter and am only looking at the new books for the narrative quests) 

pretty sure people have but either they don't get a response or they get a generic corporate response

as with the Old world, it may have been contributing factor to the decline of WHF as a game but there was probably many internal reason that they blew it up ranging from IP issues to revamping the game system entirely and having a new slate.

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2 hours ago, Groomy said:

I mean something to the effect of "Hey guys, I've noticed the price doubled but there are 12 fewer models, 6 fewer buildings, no proofread and no cards. Could you be so kind to tell me where the value is given that I'm on the fence about it?" 

Standard answer: „GW produces premium plastic Miniatures and is leading the market. We think our Miniatures are worth every Cent we are charging.“ 🤷🏼‍♂️ - So much bs and no Statement.


I just translated the core message of the German standard answer.

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2 hours ago, Groomy said:

12 billion books to start playing?

Mhm you actually ever only needed 2: The Army Book and the Core Rules. During the End Times you had to get the End Time book to play the new Minis, that was it.

A big part was that you needed quite a chunk of money to only get a single unit to a good size (15-20 models). The rules also needed an complete overhaul, they needed it badly.

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If indeed 160€  I think this is gonna be a pass for me as well. Since the reveal i had no doubt that was the thing for me to wait for, but that was all under the asumption that it would be a good or at least fair deal, like the first box. With this price though there is not much reason for for me not to wait for the warbands to be released seprately. Wilth my backlog it will take ages before I will unbox  it anyway. The scenery would have been a nice extra, but not worth the money for me. 
 

not complaining or whatever, this is how capitalism works imo. GW is free to ask what they want, for me as a consumer to decide if it is worth the money for me. In this case it isn’t. If it is a wise to ask for a price like tis, and how this works out, time will tell. 
 

how sure can we be the shared info is reliable? I mean I know this kind of price tables leaked   have been accurate so far, but it is also very easy to copy the format and fake it. With all the the grudge and excitement about the price of  the aelves and  the mega gargant, it wouldnt surprise  me when people start trolling with prices and such. 160€ seems so far off from the price from the similar box, just a little more than a year ago. It surprises me more, than the price of the Grgant i.e. Is there anyway this info can be linked with a  known reliable source?

Edited by Lowki
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11 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Mhm you actually ever only needed 2: The Army Book and the Core Rules. During the End Times you had to get the End Time book to play the new Minis, that was it.

A big part was that you needed quite a chunk of money to only get a single unit to a good size (15-20 models). The rules also needed an complete overhaul, they needed it badly.

I was exaggerating however slightly :)

You are absolutely correct, I forgot that it was a core and an army book. 

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40 minutes ago, MarkK said:

How long did it take for the Untamed beasts and iron golems to be released separately from the original starter?

Will definitely pick up the scions when they're out, great models.

It wasn't long at all. Warcry for some reason had a rapid succession of releases one after another. I think (correct me since I'm starting to forget things) that the problem was that they released an AoS box of Untamed Beasts where there was just two of the same pairs of sprues (2 leaders for example) and no cards. But there was also this and I honestly don't recall what came first :(

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25 minutes ago, Groomy said:

But there was also this and I honestly don't recall what came first

The warcry box (only 1 copy of each) came first, they released the box with double sprues near the Slave battletome release.

25 minutes ago, Groomy said:

How long did it take for the Untamed beasts and iron golems to be released separately from the original starter?

They where announced separately at 01 of September. The start set was release at the start of August, so it took a little more than a month.

Edited by Arzalyn
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I was thinking to buy the box and sell what I didn’t need but now I’m thinking will be much cheaper for me to buy what I need later on... Only thing the terrain was never sold in his entirety as in the original box, but I really need only doors and bridges...

Also 35£ for 2 boards? Really? That’s almost like a terrain box...

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I play more Warcry than anything else these days and have been eagerly awaiting this box. 

I'm kind of bummed out about the price, but what really rubs me the wrong way is that a number of the terrain pieces are the same as the previous box and it comes with the same core book. I know its labeled as the new starter so it makes sense to include the core book, but as I already own all the books getting another of the same thing is kind of annoying. I realize a solution is to simply wait for everything separately, but I can't help but imagine buying everything except the duplicated terrain and book will cost more than this box.    

Honestly for the price I'd be a lot happier if all the terrain was entirely bespoke, and maybe it came with an abridged core rules, kind of like the thin paper backs that used to come in starter sets a few editions ago.  

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17 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Mhm, are you sure? English isn‘t my native language but I think one, as a player can playtest given rules to get a picture of how those rules work and to judge said rules, can‘t you? Just playing would not take into account that you are actively testing a given ruleset. :)
 

playtest translates to „Testspiel/Spieltest“ which at least, in German, is not necessarily an activity only the game designers and testers undertake.

My understanding comes from my time as a playtester. We we're testing rules by playing versions of them so that when they got released, people could play them. 

Sort of like there are people employed as tastetesters. They test food before it is sold to the public, for them to taste.  The consumer is not a tastetester.

 

Dunno :shrug: . Just a grumble old man thing, I suppose.  Fun bit of language to think about (sort of a side hobby for me, language).

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49 minutes ago, Shearl said:

. I know its labeled as the new starter so it makes sense to include the core book, but as I already own all the books getting another of the same thing is kind of annoying. I realize a solution is to simply wait for everything separately, but I can't help but imagine buying everything except the duplicated terrain and book will cost more than this box.    

Honestly for the price I'd be a lot happier if all the terrain was entirely bespoke, and maybe it came with an abridged core rules, kind of like the thin paper backs that used to come in starter sets a few editions ago.  

Which is odd because the price would suggest GW is targeting existing customers with a higher price on a mid-game set of components which add to the game rather than being a 2.0 launch or such. Yet they are bundling the original rules and some of the older terrain into the set which would suggest that they are targeting new customers with the contents. So the price and contents are a bit at odds with each other. 

One hope is that GW didn't wait too long to get the individual parts of the last boxed set out on sale. In fact the last box sold out pretty fast online and then the individual components appeared soon after. Plus its likely to get a positive reception on ebay and the like so if there's only a few bits you want you might well be able to pick up what you desire from split kits.

 

Personally I'm tempted to do that for two sets of the DoK warband rather than go all in with the boxed set (or more - hopefully we get some hint as to their DoK rules not just their warcry rules so that we can get an idea if they are a large unit in the game or even if they are specialist unit). In the other warbands they were chaff units for Slaves to Darkness; the lore for the DoK team though makes them sound more elite (expensive in points) rather than a "Chaff" unit that you buy in bulk to throw at the enemy .

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19 minutes ago, Overread said:

Which is odd because the price would suggest GW is targeting existing customers with a higher price on a mid-game set of components which add to the game rather than being a 2.0 launch or such. Yet they are bundling the original rules and some of the older terrain into the set which would suggest that they are targeting new customers with the contents. So the price and contents are a bit at odds with each other. 

 

Yeah plus the fact one side of the board is for catacombs and the other is for traditional Warcry implies its for a new customer so they can play both ways.

On one hand I'm happy they keep releasing new content for the game, but I'd rather not have to rebuy things. Plus there's the fear that it will actually be more expensive to buy just the new things when they're released on their own, than just getting this set. Eh maybe if I do get it I'll give the core book to someone who might want to try the game. 

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1 hour ago, Shearl said:

I play more Warcry than anything else these days and have been eagerly awaiting this box. 

I'm kind of bummed out about the price, but what really rubs me the wrong way is that a number of the terrain pieces are the same as the previous box and it comes with the same core book. I know its labeled as the new starter so it makes sense to include the core book, but as I already own all the books getting another of the same thing is kind of annoying. I realize a solution is to simply wait for everything separately, but I can't help but imagine buying everything except the duplicated terrain and book will cost more than this box.

I think the biggest strike on the box is the lack of chaotic beast that was in the first box

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1 hour ago, novakai said:

I think the biggest strike on the box is the lack of chaotic beast that was in the first box

I will say that the Raptoryx's and Furies were absolutely the selling point for me the first go around. Such cool models I just wish that Raptoryx's had the demonic keyword. 

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