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The Rumour Thread


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34 minutes ago, michu said:

I think that hooking new people is some kind of "saving a hobby" as without new players any game will die. A side effect of business operations but still.

@zilberfrid Have you tried establishing an escalation league? Each player buys 1 Start Collecting (most of them are circa 500 pts) and then slowly expand their army. Perfect for beginners.

I agree that an escalation league would be perfect for beginners, and Start Collecting boxes are comparatively well priced. I'm still eyeing Malignants for that gothic centrepiece, and both the Squigs/Troggoth and Sylvaneth have been leering at me, but there are also 400 models from kickstarters on the way (for about the price of one mega gargant).

Frostgrave is a lower barrier of entry still, and the issue the other primary builders and painters have, is that GW has slipped scale quite a bit, so you can't use them very well among other minis. Being miniature agnostic is a bigger thing for them than me (and it's already quite a big thing for me).

We are playing Frostgrave (2) and Rangers, but any other miniature agnostic rulebook can easily be taken in and used. I don't think we'll end up bigger than skirmish games where every character can be named, but Stargrave next year may see us foray into Necromunda models (and Gretchen).

Core rules of AoS we liked, but Skirmish isn't good, and I still want them to try a game with a ME army. Well, we play one scenario of Rangers per week, and one game of Frostgrave. It'll be a while before they thirst for bigger games, and if they do, I'm not sure they'll opt for AoS. Design is a bit divisive, as well as the scale issue and non-model cost creep.

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I think I've lost it but I've been howling with laughter at this picture for about 5 minutes now

I might have to model a load of bases with little stunty fellas actually embedded sideways in them so they look like they've been stood on and they're pancake flat

Y735lJkha5ThtYsv.jpg

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53 minutes ago, JPjr said:

I think I've lost it but I've been howling with laughter at this picture for about 5 minutes now

I might have to model a load of bases with little stunty fellas actually embedded sideways in them so they look like they've been stood on and they're pancake flat

Y735lJkha5ThtYsv.jpg

They do look like fab kits...

The rumour engine looks a bit Tyranid but the chained spike looks more AoS.. maybe some sort of dragon-y monster. Or seraphon?? 

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6 minutes ago, silverstu said:

They do look like fab kits...

The rumour engine looks a bit Tyranid but the chained spike looks more AoS.. maybe some sort of dragon-y monster. Or seraphon?? 

In that case the dragon like malerion related art work springs to mind. 

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16 minutes ago, MarkK said:

Nice, hopefully we get to see more of the Ur-grub, would love an intelligent insect-like faction.

Also, in a suspiciously well timed move, Mierce are having a half price sale on giants ;)

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=cat&cre=off-gga

Nice, I picked up the Mjagnir, Jötunn and I really hope the rumour engine is mini fyreslayer mounts of some kind hopefully a unit but more likely just a new hero.

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12 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Most ppl won‘t care about the army‘s price since they wanted one Model, not the whole army.

Trying to justify prices is the wrong way to go, there is no justification, just corporate greed.

@swarmofseals well spoken

I don't agree that it's "corporate greed." It's capitalism. Set a price, see if people buy. It's not food, clothing, medicine, shelter, etc. It's a toy.

So, not greed, just business.

 

That said, I completely agree that these army price comparisons are missing the point of the concerns over the price of the one model. I have zero complaints about the cost of a Sons army. None.

My eyebrow is raised, and wallet closed, over the cost of the single model vs. what I perceive its value to be (see - my comparison to Archaon previously).

You are correct that many folks would want one big guy to add to their existing army. When I think of what I could get instead for that army, and the cost of this one (gorgeous!) kit, the scales tilt toward getting the stuff that's not the gargant.

 

Again, though, good on GW if they can get what they are asking. It's their right to set the the price on this toy. It's up to players to decide if that price is acceptable.

 

Side note based on some other comments about buying other stuff -

In sales meetings when I was there, it was impressed upon us that GW's competition is not other miniature companies. It is other hobbies. When confronted with the "your stuff is expensive" argument, our boss would tell us to respond with "Compared to what? Golf? Boating? Video gaming (which really isn't a hobby per se, at all)? Fishing? This hobby is not expensive at all compared to those."

The boss also saw McDonald's as the competition, but specifically for pocket money. A fiver could get a kid a value meal or a blister pack. Granted, that was years ago and blister packs don't really exist at that price point anymore, but I thought I'd share the insight into the mindset for the purposes of this discussion.

Edited by Sleboda
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16 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I don't agree that it's "corporate greed." It's capitalism. Set a price, see if people buy. It's not food, clothing, medicine, shelter, etc. It's a toy.

So, not greed, just business.

 

That said, I completely agree that these army price comparisons are missing the point of the concerns over the price of the one model. I have zero complaints about the cost of a Sons army. None.

My eyebrow is raised, and wallet closed, over the cost of the single model vs. what I perceive its value to be (see - my comparison to Archaon previously).

You are correct that many folks would want one big guy to add to their existing army. When I think of what I could get instead for that army, and the cost of this one (gorgeous!) kit, the scales tilt toward getting the stuff that's not the gargant.

 

Again, though, good on GW if they can get what they are asking. It's their right to set the the price on this toy. It's up to players to decide if that price is acceptable.

 

Side note based on some other comments about buying other stuff -

In sales meetings when I was there, it was impressed upon us that GW's competition is not other miniature companies. It is other hobbies. When confronted with the "your stuff is expensive" argument, our boss would tell us to respond with "Compared to what? Golf? Boating? Video gaming? Fishing? This hobby is not expensive at all compared to those."

The boss also saw McDonald's as the competition, but specifically for pocket money. A fiver could get a kid a value meal or a blister pack. Granted, that was years ago and blister packs don't really exists at that price point anymore, but I thought I'd share the insight into the mindset for the purposes of this discussion.

The problem is I can buy an Ender 3 3d printer, look up some casual mini printing settings, download a nice looking model off the internet for 30 dollars to even free, for the same price as a mega gargant. And yes, you can find free high quality models, as most patreon supported 3d modelling companies release some of their designs for free, and then leave others for their patreons. I have found a bear print which is arguably just as high quality as my other GW minis. So even by the logic of other hobbies, its still getting more expensive than most hobbies. Yes, it's still cheaper than other hobbies, but it's approaching the point where it won't be soon. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if over time the price fell through various start collecting boxes and battleforces, so I don't feel too strongly about it.

Edited by Sttufe
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7 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

To my surprise Store owners paid around 50%-60% less for each box (back then) which means that GW still makes a profit if they sell a box of whatever for half its price and less.

That's not what it means. Profit is based on so much more than just the MSRP. It's why I used to rage (politely) at my retail customers who offered discounts. Can you pay your employees, utilities, rent, etc. with money you gave away in your discounts? It was, and is, foolish of them. We could tell with a very, very high degree of certainty which stores were doomed and which would prosper. Discounts were some always a harbinger of collapse for that business.

 

BTW, I loved your comment about the chaos models stacked up are taller than the new giant. Ha! :)

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49 minutes ago, Sttufe said:

The problem is I can buy an Ender 3 3d printer, look up some casual mini printing settings, download a nice looking model off the internet for 30 dollars to even free, for the same price as a mega gargant.

Sooooo, do that! Nothing wrong with that!

Maybe one day the people behind those prints will employ thousands of people around the world, support a global infrastructure/supply chain, create hundreds (thousands?) of new models each year along with a huge range of tools and paints, publish a monthly hobby magazine that is translated into multiple languages, maintain a huge website, sponsor large events for gamers across the globe, publish the creative fiction of dozens of authors, encourage art by commissioning folks to produce high-quality visuals, and, all the while, consistently return value to their shareholders after they get so popular that they go public and become one of the most successful businesses on the UK (and other) markets.

 

Who knows, maybe someday those making one-off files in their personal home office will get big enough, and profitable enough, to do all that.

Edited by Sleboda
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20 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Sooooo, do that! Nothing wrong with that!

Maybe one day the people behind those prints will employ thousands of people around the world, support a global infrastructure/supply chain, create hundreds (thousands?) of new models each year along with a huge range of tools and paints, publish a monthly hobby magazine that is translated into multiple languages, maintain a huge website, sponsor large events for gamers across the globe, publish the creative fiction of dozens of authors, encourage art by commissioning folks to produce high-quality visuals, and, all the while, consistently return value to their shareholders after they get so popular that they go public and become one of the most successful businesses on the UK (and other) markets.

 

Who knows, maybe someday those making one-off files in their personal home office will get big enough, and profitable enough, to do all that.

3d printing isn't a company, its a community, with dozens of companies serving it. There are companies who do design digital models using sculpting and modelling and just sell the prints, and the amount of 3d printers out there dwarfs the number of models GW could design or print at all. Of course, 3d printing for miniature gaming is newer, so it's "fanbase", which is designers not just consumers, is considerably smaller than the number of people buying GW products. On top of that, a lot of them aren't into miniature printing, and I really just recommended it as an alternative, although I did sound a bit salty, sorry. The main point is it's nice cuz it's cheaper, and a community rather than a company with a near monopoly. Plus, I mean, look at GW. When it started, did anyone guess it would be one of the most successful companies in the UK, with a massive fanbase and a huge community of creators? GW is great and all but please don't insult the closet designers, all designers start out like that.

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I really don’t think the price of a kit is that ridiculous, as someone who is not independently wealthy.  You’re getting a literal fourth of a 2000 point army that can be used in any other army in AoS.  Don’t forget, a team of artists make these products possible.  The kits are gorgeous, and come with a multitude of extra pieces.  I think they are priced realistically, however, I think we are at the threshold of the affordability of cost of kits, right now.  

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it is getting expensive as a hobby but then i know people who buy PVC anime figurines  or large Gunpla figures that cost just as much as these Gargants

So let just say that GW is not the only company that works in that price range when it comes to selling toys

 

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