The Rumour Thread

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I'll aim for 4 boxes and I think that I'll keep the slanesh halves. Do I need more troops? How many keepers?

It's probably worth going to the Slaanesh section itself for specific chat. 

That said the current power play within Slaanesh hings on the use of Depravity, which are points you get for taking wounds only on leaders and when leaders cause wounds (not kills) on the enemy units. With depravity you can then spend it as a resource to summon more demons to your army. Since leader units are the only ones that can generate depravity many people want to have the max number for the point value of the game; and because you get depravity for wounds taken, a high wound leader (like a Keeper) is an ideal choice. Armies built around that structure tend to feature 3 or 4 keepers in the core army and focus on summoning more to join the battle - taking infantry only as a "battle-line tax". 

That said its not the only build, just the most powerful at present. Chariots, riders and deamonettes all have their place. Four sets would give you a block of 4 riders which is a large number; 40 deamonettes and 4 chariot kits where 1 kit can make a seeker chariot or hellflayer or two kits can make an exalted chariot - so a nice bit of variety. 

 

Fun tip - because deamonettes are interchangable between kits in the slaanesh line if you chose to build seeker chariots you could build 8 deamonettes on seeker mounts instead of the humans if you wanted. Since the seeker chariots don't use the riders and the seeker models are the same so they can mount onto the same seeker steeds if you wanted.

[GeneralZero]

Thank you @Overread I'll also look into the 40k side of this army: I like to use daemons armies  in both games, and there is no depravity points in 40K. This is one of the argument that make me jump on the opportunity of this box. Troops are importants in 40K and biggest HQ (keepers of S ) are targeted too easily (which is a shame).

[EccentricCircle]

Its worth remembering that new editions of Games Workshop games are rarely dramatic reinventions of the core engine. There is almost never an actual need for a new edition. Rather they brand a small incremental change of the rules as a big new thing to draw attention. 

They don't happen when the designers feel that there are issues with the game that require an overhaul or, even necessarily when they have some massive new idea to implement. Rather they are an excuse to start the codex cycle again, and get everyone to buy a few more books. Thus they can keep the cycle ticking over like clockwork, rather than needing a lengthy development process to rebuild the game from the ground up, or explore the options of what can or could be done with the format.

Changes like AoS1 which actually do that are really rare.

Apologies if this seems a bit cynical, but I've seen this time and time again. I'm not even particularly critical of this approach. Companies will want to make money, and new editions really are just a marketing ploy.

 

On the Slaanesh stuff, am I right in thinking that the hellstriders only have mortal mounts rather than being a dual kit with the seekers? If its possible to build the whole thing as mostly daemons, with all their crossover potential, then it might be worth getting, if its just the hellstriders, who I'm not that fond of then its probably one to skip, even if there's a long wait for the new Medusa hero.

[pixieproxy]

What are people's feelings on the timeframe for the warcry drop? Wanting to get an idea for when I need to put money aside XD

[Overread]

Eh its impossible to predict. 

We know that this week its Blackstone Fortress and that September has Luminoth and likely/hopefully Giants. October has both the Marine and Necron codex and a wave of models. This leaves November being likely for the Morathi book and new duel army pack with slaanesh.

Thing is Warcry being a side game could be at any point in those three months or beyond very easily. 

[LuminethMage]

13 hours ago, Nos said:

I've always believed Malekith 2 was going to be next edition. The idea that hes just chilling in Ulgu and not up to much seemed unlikely. 

Prediction: Aelf Gods beat the snot out of each other and are knackered which leaves the board clear for the denied Phoenix King to reveal himself and his machinations and demand the fealty of all Aelf Kind. Possibly with some form of Dragonish Faction backing him.  Probably Idoneth being given some favours too.

I hope that won't happen. I like that so far the aelf faction are not archenemies like in Warhammer Fantasy. And just going back to the old story also doesn't really sound appealing to me. Malerion can't even physically go into Hysh (and the other way round - Teclis and Tyrion can't go into Ulgu either). The shadow aelves and demons are made by Malerion and Morathi, and the Lumineth by Teclis and Tyrion, it would be really strange to have either of those convert to the other half.  

So far we haven't heard anything about either Malerion nor any of the other elf gods wanting to rule all aelves etc. Just seems kind of a strange idea in AoS. They even mostly even haven't tried to convert any of the city aelves. 

Some internal strife to spice things up is great, and I'm looking forward to the Morathi book, to see what they make out of that, but just going back to the same old story, while there are much bigger threat out there, I personally find really unappealing. 

Now the dragon part of this - I'm all for it. We need more dragons. 

[Aeryenn]

If DoK and Slaanesh start a new cycle of faction updates I'm again disappointed that they only receive one new model each. DoK could use a new battleline unit. If they were to receive more, GW would put it in this box. It decreases the chances of a decent updates for other in-need armies like Ironjawz and Fyreslayers. 

[Chikout]

25 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

If DoK and Slaanesh start a new cycle of faction updates I'm again disappointed that they only receive one new model each. DoK could use a new battleline unit. If they were to receive more, GW would put it in this box. It decreases the chances of a decent updates for other in-need armies like Ironjawz and Fyreslayers. 

DoK are getting a new unit with the warcry warband. Between the box set, warcry and underworlds DoK are getting three units this year. With the rules updates that are presumably coming that's not a bad little update. 

[Aeryenn]

16 minutes ago, Chikout said:

DoK are getting a new unit with the warcry warband. Between the box set, warcry and underworlds DoK are getting three units this year. With the rules updates that are presumably coming that's not a bad little update. 

When you put it that way... But still those warcry/underworlds aren't 'real' units because they have little use in competetive play. I've never played with someone using those teams in a 2k match.

[michu]

12 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

When you put it that way... But still those warcry/underworlds aren't 'real' units because they have little use in competetive play. I've never played with someone using those teams in a 2k match.

They can be used a cheaper alternatives - WHU has a Hag Queen. And Warcry warband can be used as Scourge Corsairs or Assassins. Everything has it's use.

[Kramer]

15 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

When you put it that way... But still those warcry/underworlds aren't 'real' units because they have little use in competetive play. I've never played with someone using those teams in a 2k match.

Play some beast of chaos armies. Grashnak is in A lot of lists. 
or blood tide focussed armies bringing the little 5 reaver squad. 

Plus all the players who don’t define things being ‘real’ solely because of their perceived use in matched play. but just want to play the cool models they painted and have fun. 

I have pretty little use in matched play, does that mean I’m not real? 🥺

[Aeryenn]

15 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Plus all the players who don’t define things being ‘real’ solely because of their perceived use in matched play. but just want to play the cool models they painted and have fun. 

I have pretty little use in matched play, does that mean I’m not real? 🥺

You know what I mean. I'm not really all that competitive as well but still want to buy and paint models that might actual see a play on the table. That's why I'd rather welcome a 10 men box with AoS 2k points tailored rules than a warband.

[Chikout]

36 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

When you put it that way... But still those warcry/underworlds aren't 'real' units because they have little use in competetive play. I've never played with someone using those teams in a 2k match.

I thought the general consensus was that a hag with a wound shrug would be pretty useful. I've also heard a lot of people singing the praises of the untamed  beasts with their pregame move. If the khainites get some movement shenanigans, which their shadow aesthetics suggests they might, they could be useable. 

[JPjr]

10 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

Its worth remembering that new editions of Games Workshop games are rarely dramatic reinventions of the core engine. There is almost never an actual need for a new edition. Rather they brand a small incremental change of the rules as a big new thing to draw attention. 

...

Apologies if this seems a bit cynical, but I've seen this time and time again. I'm not even particularly critical of this approach. Companies will want to make money, and new editions really are just a marketing ploy.

All of this, and I don’t think it’s cynical, of you thinking it or even GW doing it.

i think looking at “do we need a new edition?” from a rules POV is generally pretty irrelevant really

Assuming that what we’re dealing with in both AoS & 40K are reasonably mature rules systems, then every 3/4 years there will have been various new ideas/additions to the core systems that can be codified or abandoned but nothing that needs a new edition or couldn’t just be handled with something slimline like the Gaming Book.

but after 3-4 years you’re going to want to refresh your starter sets, whilst Soul Wars/Tempest of Souls/Storm Strike are all still good value for newcomers introducing 3 new boxes with new models will both reenergise existing players and bring in a spike of new blood.

and if you’re doing that you’re going to take the opportunity to refresh the big rule book, correct what you think hasn’t quite worked or worked too well and advance the storyline/refresh the status quo.

i mean I had no intention of ever getting into 40k, but then a new big box appears, big marketing blitz, for a brief moment people being excited about a GW product are louder & prouder than the usual miserable gits endlessly moaning & making the hobby embarrassing and like the dumbass I am there’s suddenly a massive box of space marines & necrons sat on my desk.

 

 

[Beliman]

My main issue with Underworlds/ Warcry bands in AoS is how they play.

They have a lot of profiles  and stats that makes it tedious to play for really low impact on the table (only the leader with an special spell has some type of impact on the table).

And I have 20 man special-weapon thunderers but...

[Nos]

5 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

I hope that won't happen. I like that so far the aelf faction are not archenemies like in Warhammer Fantasy. And just going back to the old story also doesn't really sound appealing to me. Malerion can't even physically go into Hysh (and the other way round - Teclis and Tyrion can't go into Ulgu either). The shadow aelves and demons are made by Malerion and Morathi, and the Lumineth by Teclis and Tyrion, it would be really strange to have either of those convert to the other half.  

So far we haven't heard anything about either Malerion nor any of the other elf gods wanting to rule all aelves etc. Just seems kind of a strange idea in AoS. They even mostly even haven't tried to convert any of the city aelves. 

Some internal strife to spice things up is great, and I'm looking forward to the Morathi book, to see what they make out of that, but just going back to the same old story, while there are much bigger threat out there, I personally find really unappealing. 

Now the dragon part of this - I'm all for it. We need more dragons. 

I didnt say arch enemies. They can and do already fight each other so that's nothing new. The Aelf protagonists being realm bound dosent stop their agency. Hence why they need to establish a system of alliances same way as Sigmar. But if they are making a bigger respective play for their own ambitions simultaneously stands to reason they will deplete themselves, leaving a vacuum. And who then to constrain a growing Slaannesh? 

And there were *always* bigger threats out there for the elves in Warhammer, that was a huge part of their character, their hubris and inability to see beyond their personal internecine racial grievances against each other and how those conflicts weakened them against Chaos and eroded their ancestral power. 

None of that has gone anywhere and none of what I'm suggesting in that sense is new to either AOS or Warhammer personalities:

Teclis had and still has white saviour complex 

Morathi used and still uses the broader political legitimacy of a more orthodox cause (Malkeith's deposition from the Throne, Sigmars War against Chaos) to hide her own ambitions and create her own following

Alarielle was and is the over protective insular mother 

Malekith was kicked out of Ulthuan and went to a forbidding, unknowable realm to plot his ascension over elf kind...

See where I'm going?

I have *no idea* of course but I i did predict the whole Slaanesh arc about a year ago just reading the tea leaves as it is. 

Fundamentally it's a war game, not Game of Thrones. The political complexities never go much beyond "these guys are fighting these guys more/less than they were before" because it's all just in order of tabletop plausibility and product releases.

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

You know what I mean. I'm not really all that competitive as well but still want to buy and paint models that might actual see a play on the table. That's why I'd rather welcome a 10 men box with AoS 2k points tailored rules than a warband.

Yeah I know what you mean. 

But you also know why I responded. Words carry meaning and we can't see how it comes across on the internet. 

Have you seen the ' Why the detest of Narrative' thread? Personally I don't think there is any detest, but saying things are only 'real' if they have competitive value, can't help. It's a sad sign if someone's community drives them to even asking that question. That situation simply sucks.
(just to be clear not blaming you)

Edited August 24, 2020 by Kramer

[JackStreicher]

4 minutes ago, Kramer said:

It's a sad sign if someone's community drives them to even asking that question. That situation simply sucks.

Welcome to my hell

 

[Kramer]

12 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Welcome to my hell

 

Yeah it sucks, I'm pretty lucky with my group. They play too little for my taste but every game we do play is fun  

[Aeryenn]

40 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah I know what you mean. 

But you also know why I responded. Words carry meaning and you can't see how it comes across on the internet. 

Have you seen the ' Why the detest of Narrative' thread? Personally I don't think there is any detest, but saying things are only 'real' if they have competitive value, can't help. It's a sad sign if someone's community drives them to even asking that question. That situation simply sucks.
(just to be clear not blaming you)

Personally I would really like to try narrative game but the only group in my area I heard of has broken since covid. 

When it comes to competetiveness it's not the most important thing to me. I started collecting Kharadrons when their rules sucked but I loved the models. However I knew that one day they will receive new rules and be at least playable. I'm not so sure with warbands (majority of them) to get rules good enough.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

Personally I would really like to try narrative game but the only group in my area I heard of has broken since covid. 

When it comes to competetiveness it's not the most important thing to me. I started collecting Kharadrons when their rules sucked but I loved the models. However I knew that one day they will receive new rules and be at least playable. I'm not so sure with warbands (majority of them) to get rules good enough.

Oh that’s a shame. I’m currently doing a map campaign through TTS. But that’s not for everyone. 
if you need tips to set something similar up I’d be happy to suggest a few things   

I think the ‘breaking point’ from a competitive perspective is that (most off) the warbands are two drops. So they start one nil behind. 

[Frowny]

Sometimes more drops is an advantage, esp if you've already given up trying for turn choice. The ogor oneis solid and makes it any list I don't run a regular hunter. As a deep strike to sneak backfield objectives and 2x little drops to screen out their deepstrikers he gives a lot of value, which is otherwise had to replicate  with ogors. To hold a backfield objective against deepstrikers you would need to commot 120 points of gluttons instead of 20 points of that single frost sabre.

[King Under the Mountain]

With all of this DoK love, the desire to try out some pointy ears is strong but I will endure.

Also I absolutely love the Broken Realms concept.  

Broken Realms: Grungi?  A Dwarf can dream

[Bayul]

18 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

With all of this DoK love, the desire to try out some pointy ears is strong but I will endure.

I am sure that would look great on you! Can't wait for your selfies.

[KingBrodd]

42 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

With all of this DoK love, the desire to try out some pointy ears is strong but I will endure.

Also I absolutely love the Broken Realms concept.  

Broken Realms: Grungi?  A Dwarf can dream

Grungni would be an absolute awesome next book. Maybe with revelations to what hed been working on finally showing up in AOS 3.0.

GorkaMorka would hopefully get a book or at the least Gordrakk to show what hes been upto, maybe preparing for his assault on Excelsis/Azyr.