The Rumour Thread

[MitGas]

I'd love to see new units for Ironjawz so I'd hope a new starter set would introduce them. Stormcast... well, personally I think they already got enough units, they'd rather need to balance them well but yeah, it's probably going to be them. Anyways, I hope 2021 at least will be the year of armies that deserve at least a partial overhaul... Skaven, Lizardmen, Cities of Sigmar (or a successor), maybe a few new kits for Fireslayers, etc.

[Kramer]

31 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

Only in the starter boxes (I hate that so much!)

It’s the dumbest thing ever. And then across the Shin guards as well... so annoying. 

[Lord_of_theRavenspire]

Jaws vs. new CoS sculpts?

(I can dream! :p)

[Rakart]

2 hours ago, Lord_of_theRavenspire said:

Jaws vs. new CoS sculpts?

(I can dream! :p)

I'd fall off my chair. Pipe dream

[Frowny]

Cos would love a generic horse mounted general with some generic command ability applicable to all subfactions. Somethting to keep up with all the different cav and unite the different races. Would be awesome.

[Verminlord]

16 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

Stormcast VS Ironjawz.

This and a new campaign book with Gordrak leading GA destruction against Azyrheim.

New VS box with stormcast defensive chamber or defensive hero and IJ getting the ever covetted gore grunta boss. 👌

Edited August 20, 2020 by Verminlord

[Rhetoric]

I generally hope 3.0 is ways off yet.  I’d love to actually see Cities get the AoS version of freeguild guard and a new Stormcast chamber as the defenders of Azyr VS GA Destruction led by Gordrakk with Godbeast battering ram and Mega-Gargants in tow. 
 

that would be a hallmark event! 

[Nezzhil]

Stormcast vs "Mongol Horde" Destruction

[Lanoss]

SC vs IJ siege warfare!!

[Sleboda]

Sieges have never been compelling affairs in wargaming, at least not in the sense that they have broad appeal.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea as an occasional break from the norm, but the very nature of them runs counter to the Three Fs of Fast, Fun, add Furious. They are sedentary endeavors, where the enjoyment comes not from the action and excitement on the table, but rather from the plotting and planning of the long game that takes place in the imagined tents of the commanders.

 

A siege is best won by doing absolutely nothing. By encircling the besieged force and just ... waiting. Not exactly the stuff of legends!

"Tell us, oh mighty general, how your forces defeated the hated foe. Did your centaurs storm the gates? Did your harpies blacken the sky and pluck the defenders from their walls? Were your ophidian brigades swift and fierce as lightning as they skewered the enemy upon poisoned pikes?"

"Nope. We sat around eating rabbits for three months as the poor sods starved while hiding behind their walls."

 

GW has tried siege rules a few times in the past (Warhammer Siege, Mighty Empires). It's always been a distraction, not a main attraction.

[Overread]

Sieges are LOADS of fun. 

Sure they aren't realistic, but heck nor are the fights we have. The problem is that they don't tend to work best with 28-35mm models. By the time you've put down a wall you've only got one segment of it and perhaps one or two towers; so you're more sieging a wall than a fort (unless you've a huge table). Plus regular siege equipment again can feel very big on the table. It would be an ideal set of rules for a fun "Apoc" sized system for AoS with nuts numbers of models on either side; but for a 2K game it can feel a bit forced. Fun but a bit forced.

 

Personally I think for wargaming if you want a siege then 3mm to 15mm are better scales. You can actually get a good fort down in building with those scales on a decent table; you can put more units down and the visual rank and file design of most of those game systems works great for creating the feel of an epic siege. You can have several catapults; trebuchets; battering rams; ladders; siege towers all on the table and it doesn't overwhelm it in the same way it would on a regular table with AoS scales. 

Heck I'm very very very slowly building a Battle Valor army and would love to do that kind of games with that system. 

[Noserenda]

Sieges are huge fun, at least the escalades that tend to be played at 28mm are, you just need to get the rules right and catch the right group, same as any other game variant (Like skirmish, cityfight, Planetstrike, whatever). I forget which version of Warhammer siege it was (5th?) with the release of the plastic fortress and siege tower and all the metal gear that provided loads of great games, it works quite well in the LOTR system too.

But yeah I actually think fantasy systems work even better given the general disparity between troops and extra factors like flying and magic, though those things do need toning down a bit, like entirely flying armies or Lord Kroak tend to render the fortifications pointless

[Sleboda]

Indeed they can be fun, but I'm just saying that they are not great as a regular game. I really enjoyed Mighty Empires, but in that game the siege was usually abstracted. You could play them out on the tabletop if you were so inclined, and sometimes you would do so just for the occasional variation in your weekly game, but it was not the norm.

And that was for a good reason. The nature of the game just wasn't Warhammery, for lack of a better term. Sure, when the stars aligned for two like-minded players, when they were tired of the energy and excitement of the thrust and parry of armies clashing on the battlefield, when they wanted something more akin to a slow plotting of strategy and resource management, they could agree to the multi-day event of almost no actual movement of models, calculating how many more shots of catapult ammunition they had left, how many weeks of grain remained inside the castle walls, and determination of how many plagues the priests could inflict or stop.

Thrills.  

But it was an option.

 

Could it be dressed up? AoS-ified? Sure! And I bet it would actually be fun and take under 27 hours to complete. But, as the basis for a new version of the standard game, awww hellz no.

A supplement in White Dwarf? Sure!

The standard out-of-the-box experience? No gosh darned way.

 

Can you imagine the in-store demo games that try to recruit new players?

"Gee, mister, what do I do now?"

"Well, Timmy, you point at the wall, remove an ammo token from each of your catapults, and then roll on the structural integrity table for section 3.16 of the south wall."

"Um. Ok. I guess. Then what?"

"This is the fun part! You then decide to either poison their water or go foraging for winter supplies and waiting for them to starve. Which do you want to do?"

"I want my soldiers to charge across the table and fight!"

"Oh, Timmy. Silly Timmy! No. That would be stupid. It's much more effective to have your army stand around and do nothing! See, it's fun!"

"Oh. I think I'll go buy the new Borderlands game for Xbox. Thanks, mister."

Edited August 20, 2020 by Sleboda

[ReynakZhen]

43 minutes ago, Overread said:

Sieges are LOADS of fun. 

Sure they aren't realistic, but heck nor are the fights we have. The problem is that they don't tend to work best with 28-35mm models. By the time you've put down a wall you've only got one segment of it and perhaps one or two towers; so you're more sieging a wall than a fort (unless you've a huge table). Plus regular siege equipment again can feel very big on the table. It would be an ideal set of rules for a fun "Apoc" sized system for AoS with nuts numbers of models on either side; but for a 2K game it can feel a bit forced. Fun but a bit forced.

 

Personally I think for wargaming if you want a siege then 3mm to 15mm are better scales. You can actually get a good fort down in building with those scales on a decent table; you can put more units down and the visual rank and file design of most of those game systems works great for creating the feel of an epic siege. You can have several catapults; trebuchets; battering rams; ladders; siege towers all on the table and it doesn't overwhelm it in the same way it would on a regular table with AoS scales. 

Heck I'm very very very slowly building a Battle Valor army and would love to do that kind of games with that system. 

I remember a siege during a mighty empires campaign that was awesome!

I played Dark Elves attacking a Nurgle Daemon fortress. Long story short, I had 10 x 10 warriors each with an assassin hidden (Manbane, throwing stars) 

Turn one, I revealed all assassins then used them to clear the battlements before climbing the walls.

[KingBrodd]

The most important thing regarding Sieges that we need to know, is wether or not Gordrakks Siege Weapon will get a model!!

[Neverchosen]

I feel like having a generic set of rules for defending and attacking fortifications (an expansion and improvement on garrison mechanics) would be a really cool way to establish siege rules. This way you can incorporate siege mechanics into regular games or ignore them entirely or create entire scenarios around the mechanic.

Dividing such fortifications into larger categories like terrain 9th edition 40k would be a good starting point. Walls, gates, towers and buildings would be a good starting point for fortifications and then they could have basic defensive properties based on their materials such as stone, wood and metal. This could allow for a very dynamic set of siege rules adaptable to various needs. Scaling and breaching mechanics would obviously be required but they would pose a valuable question regarding army specific terrain. For example could you destroy a Herdstone or chop down Wyldwoods and how would that be balanced? As such it might work better as a separate set of rules but I think with enough play testing and balancing siege rules would be a fun and interesting addition to the game

Edited August 20, 2020 by Neverchosen

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

The most important thing regarding Sieges that we need to know, is wether or not Gordrakks Siege Weapon will get a model!!

🤔 I'm imagining any Chuck Norris joke replaced with Gordrakk. 

[Clif Blunderbrows]

19 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Indeed they can be fun, but I'm just saying that they are not great as a regular game. I really enjoyed Mighty Empires, but in that game the siege was usually abstracted. You could play them out on the tabletop if you were so inclined, and sometimes you would do so just for the occasional variation in your weekly game, but it was not the norm.

And that was for a good reason. The nature of the game just wasn't Warhammery, for lack of a better term. Sure, when the stars aligned for two like-minded players, when they were tired of the energy and excitement of the thrust and parry of armies clashing on the battlefield, when they wanted something more akin to a slow plotting of strategy and resource management, they could agree to the multi-day event of almost no actual movement of models, calculating how many more shots of catapult ammunition they had left, how many weeks of grain remained inside the castle walls, and determination of how many plagues the priests could inflict or stop.

Thrills.  

But it was an option.

 

Could it be dressed up? AoS-ified? Sure! And I bet it would actually be fun and take under 27 hours to complete. But, as the basis for a new version of the standard game, awww hellz no.

A supplement in White Dwarf? Sure!

The standard out-of-the-box experience? No gosh darned way.

 

Can you imagine the in-store demo games that try to recruit new players?

"Gee, mister, what do I do now?"

"Well, Timmy, you point at the wall, remove an ammo token from each of your catapults, and then roll on the structural integrity table for section 3.16 of the south wall."

"Um. Ok. I guess. Then what?"

"This is the fun part! You then decide to either poison their water or go foraging for winter supplies and waiting for them to starve. Which do you want to do?"

"I want my soldiers to charge across the table and fight!"

"Oh, Timmy. Silly Timmy! No. That would be stupid. It's much more effective to have your army stand around and do nothing! See, it's fun!"

"Oh. I think I'll go buy the new Borderlands game for Xbox. Thanks, mister."

I understand the sentiment but this seems to be implying that any translation of a siege battle HAS to be faithful to a real-world representation of what is or isn’t effective. It would be like saying “Well, the siege of Helms Deep would be cool to see on the big screen, but think about all the months we’d have to sit in the theater just to get to the good part!”

I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t have awesome rules simulating things like choosing between weakening a fortification (save penalty to garrisoned troops) or destroying essential infrastructure (bravery penalty or mortal wounds per turn to represent fires or destroyed stockpiles or something).  And the long-term aspects can be heavily abstracted (choose a tactic before the battle to gain bonuses or penalties as appropriate) or just completely thrown out the window because “We just want to get to the epic part”.

That said, I do agree that actually representing fortifications on the table is a more relevant hinderance. Seems like there would either be too little terrain to feel like an awesome siege, or the cost of entry would be far too high (either in time spent to create your own or dollars sunk on “Azyrite Ruins 5.0: This Time It’s Literally the Whole City”).

[Ogregut]

Azyr has finally been updated. 

[Nezzhil]

15 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Azyr has finally been updated. 

Well... "updated", none of the bugs or erratas were fixed, the realm artifacts are the Malign Sorcery artifacts. It's a mess.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Nezzhil

[Matrindur]

In the App article when they are talking about the Lumineth coming in September they also added this bit:

"And not long after, you’ll have something else to look forward to. Something massive – gargantuan, even…"

So confirmation that Sons will only come after Lumineth even if that was pretty clear at this point and that October 10th seems like a pretty save bet now

Edited August 21, 2020 by Matrindur

[Gaz Taylor]

2 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

Well... "updated", none of the bugs or erratas were fixed, the realm artifacts are the Malign Sorcery artifacts. It's a mess.

Any issues with the app, email gwapps@gwplc.com
 

 

[Nezzhil]

29 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Any issues with the app, email gwapps@gwplc.com
 

 

I usually send a lot of comments, problems, bugs or erratas. This patch, it's very poor and not even include all the content of the GHB20, I'm a programmer and it's very hard to defend a patch with this content.

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Matrindur said:

In the App article when they are talking about the Lumineth coming in September they also added this bit:

"And not long after, you’ll have something else to look forward to. Something massive – gargantuan, even…"

So confirmation that Sons will only come after Lumineth even if that was pretty clear at this point and that October 10th seems like a pretty save bet now

I cannot wait. The pre order date for the Audio Drama was October 10 for a release on the 17th so I'm wondering if the Sons will also go on Pre Order on the 10th OR will they go up on the 3rd and the Audio follows? Only time will tell but damn it's good to know a rough release date!!

[Gaz Taylor]

33 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

I usually send a lot of comments, problems, bugs or erratas. This patch, it's very poor and not even include all the content of the GHB20, I'm a programmer and it's very hard to defend a patch with this content.

Which is why it’s best to let them know. I 100% agree with you as been doing IT for a while. I have some sympathy as I think they are under resourced but you are right a app like this for a company like GW isn’t great