KingBrodd Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Neverchosen said: I feel this warrants its own thread. Here are my initial ideas with no thought towards balance or gameplay:Chaos: S2D: I think a chaos realmgate showcasing their control over the Eightpoints would be cool. It could function similarly to the baleful realmgates. Or maybe it permits the summoning of a single demon unit depending on the mark of your general (Furies, Horrors, Bloodletters, Deamonettes, Plaguebearers). DoT: This one is hard, but something mutated and strange. I keep on settling on an obelisk with tentacles and eyes. Obvious effect would be to increase spells but I would like it to have a chance of changing dying heroes into chaos spawn like with Gavespawn.Death: LoN: I think getting an actual piece of scenery to represent their Gravesites would be great. Nighthaunt: Maybe an ethereal gallows or some such. Any unit slain nearby gives a chance of healing a certain amount of wounds, as the enemy spirits are sent to hang instead of the nighthaunt?Destruction: Warclans: I feel a ramshackle bunker that could be garrisoned would be neat (kinda like the burrow in warcraft 3). SOB: I think an overturned caravan with trapped survivors for a potential meal would be great. Functionally similar to a mawpot but with the giants having to physically go there to grab a snack to heal.Order: Cities of Sigmar: A Brewery with Bugman signs. It would could be garrisoned and maybe provide a chance to heal, maybe on a roll of one they become inebriated and get a minus one to hit. Daughters of Khaine: A sacrificial alter you could sacrifice units for benefits to spell casting and prayers KO: Some kind of port to allow ships to repair. Realm lords: An Aetherquartz rock (shaped like a cow). It will could allow a replenishment of Aetherquartz once per-battle? Stormcast: I think that some kind of religious icon like a statue of Sigmar that benefited prayers would be sensible.Neutral: But above all I want some reasonable siege mechanics and a modular set of towers and walls to create a small fortress or even have the towers be defensible on their own. I have argued before and will again this would be a really neat inclusion in the next starter set to encourage learning a new set of siege rules and encourage players to buy modular scenery that would fit with the starter set without being draconian and preventing players from using homemade scenery. Well blow me down mate that overturned Caravan idea is brilliant!! Damn that has me excited for something that doesnt exist!! Looks like I have a new hobby project!! The Warclans Burroughs is another fantastic idea but I am 100% behind you with the modular terrain. I'd love the ability to make a massive fortress, I dont even play competitively and I'd still buy that kit up just for fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Sharkbelly said: Gotcha. Yeah, an undead expansion for Warhammer Quest has long been "rumored." Been done before. It was great. I bought 30 of each of the two Tomb Guard that it came with to use in my black and white silent movie themed undead army and other projects (examples shown here - they are the two models on the right). 5 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, KingBrodd said: Well blow me down mate that overturned Caravan idea is brilliant!! Damn that has me excited for something that doesnt exist!! Looks like I have a new hobby project!! The Warclans Burroughs is another fantastic idea but I am 100% behind you with the modular terrain. I'd love the ability to make a massive fortress, I dont even play competitively and I'd still buy that kit up just for fun. Thanks, I feel like you are the only fan of my many awful ideas. I do believe that Destruction and scenery really go hand in hand and I was quite sad when Orruk Warclans did not get a unique piece. I feel that the key to a modular fortress is to sell it in various pieces that function individually but also allow players the option to expand their fortress according to their own gaming needs. If someone wants a single tower or even just a single wall to defend that would allow for a mini siege scenario and not be overtly cost prohibitive. On the flip-side someone else could create a massive multitiered castle with layers upon layers of walls, gates and towers. I think that many of GW's former attempts at fortresses were too large or cost prohibitive; whereas this idea would allow people to build to their own comfort level. Furthermore, people really enjoy using their own scenery so hopefully the rules would permit some permeation and allow people to use their custom pieces. But as I stated including the tower in a starter set would be great start as it would incentivize people to purchase from GW to create a more unified castle. Which I think would be the best of both worlds as it would not penalize people while also encouraging them to purchase from the company. It also allows a natural expansion for most armies as they would require some combination of siege engines, flyers, wall scaling units or heavy hitters to batter down gates. Edited August 15, 2020 by Neverchosen 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Neverchosen said: Thanks, I feel like you are the only fan of my many awful ideas. I do believe that Destruction and scenery really go hand in hand and I was quite sad when Orruk Warclans did not get a unique piece. I feel that the key to a modular fortress is to sell it in various pieces that function individually but also allow players the option to expand their fortress according to their own gaming needs. If someone wants a single tower or even just a single wall to defend that would allow for a mini siege scenario and not be overtly cost prohibitive. On the flip-side someone else could create a massive multitiered castle with layers upon layers of walls, gates and towers. I think that many of GW's former attempts at fortresses were too large or cost prohibitive; whereas this idea would allow people to build to their own comfort level. Furthermore, people really enjoy using their own scenery so hopefully the rules would permit some permeation and allow people to use their custom pieces. But as I stated including the tower in a starter set would be great start as it would incentivize people to purchase from GW to create a more unified castle. Which I think would be the best of both worlds as it would not penalize people while also encouraging them to purchase from the company. It also allows a natural expansion for most armies as they would require some combination of siege engines, flyers, wall scaling units or heavy hitters to batter down gates. I and many others love your ideas mate keep them coming!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, xking said: What are you talkin about? Chaos is not relatable. And I wouldn't call it "kid friendly". Compare older lore to the newer stuff. There is at times a big difference, both in maturity as well as quality. When I see stuff like Bloody McBloodnose with his trusty axe Blooddarkblood it is simply ridiculous and one-sided (that goes, to a lesser extent, to the other 3 as well) - compare it with publications like the Liber Chaotica or older Chaos armybooks and you will see sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant alterations to certain passages to make it more cartoonish. Or turn a blind eye if you feel like any sort of criticism is a problem (but then please have the decency to not challenge my words). Fact is what they're putting out now is often times simplified and diluted (or more "kid-friendly") and that is simply a step in the wrong direction for Chaos as its concept should make you think and not just go "oh, those are just bad dudes, yo". That's a waste of great work and depriving younger minds of more mature content (not talking about boobies here, I'm talking about the darkness in our minds) is a missed chance. It was also more interesting when the Emperor was simply wrong about the Thousand Sons and ordered their execution instead of what it is now which just paints Magnus and most of the other dramatis personae as idiots - yeah, one can say Tzeentch/Horus is such a great master of puppets now but it was much better when Tzeentch's involvement wasn't blatant and they had to turn to him out of sheer necessity. Made the Sons tragic and the Emperor much more grey (and in this one case OBVIOUSLY wrong) than he is now in that storyline. Added depth. I guess that is what I'm arguing for - I want more depth, not less of it. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greasygeek Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Neverchosen said: Thanks, I feel like you are the only fan of my many awful ideas. I do believe that Destruction and scenery really go hand in hand and I was quite sad when Orruk Warclans did not get a unique piece. I feel that the key to a modular fortress is to sell it in various pieces that function individually but also allow players the option to expand their fortress according to their own gaming needs. Im totally with you on this. I build a large tomb for my Shyish stuff last summer and this summer I will start working on smaller wall/tomb sections that will work by thenselves but function as walls too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 Other than Forgeworld what is left of announced 40K releases? Or are we about to start seeing all new minis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrindur Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 43 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: Other than Forgeworld what is left of announced 40K releases? Or are we about to start seeing all new minis? 4 ETB kits for Necrons and Space Marines which whould be coming soon as the rules are in the new starters released today (Probably next week) also the rest of the SM/Necron kits which could be coming with the codexes but could also be coming sooner Also Necromunda should get their stuff soon too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 27 minutes ago, Matrindur said: 4 ETB kits for Necrons and Space Marines which whould be coming soon as the rules are in the new starters released today (Probably next week) also the rest of the SM/Necron kits which could be coming with the codexes but could also be coming sooner Also Necromunda should get their stuff soon too If the Codexes are coming in October surely the rest of the range will as well? Baring the ETB kits. Oh right I had forgotten the Necromunda Roadmap!! House of Blades was due Q3 set they could very well drop this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minis by Night Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, KingBrodd said: Other than Forgeworld what is left of announced 40K releases? Or are we about to start seeing all new minis? Here are all the upcoming releases I'm aware of, with an educated guess for release dates Age of Sigmar Lumineth full range + batttletome 10 (?) kits 2-3 weeks September Sons of Behemath 1(?) kit + battletome Possible pre-order on October 10th (like the novel) 40k Necron new models Number of kits? 2 weeks Codex: October Space Marin new models Number of kits? 2 weeks Codex: October ETB kits replacing the Dark Imperium ones? Varia Warcry Scions of Flame Septembre?? Khainite Shadowstalkers Underworld Seasons 3 - August 2020 DoK Orks #2 Multiplayer expansion - Sept 2020 Season 4 - Dec 2020 3 Necromunda gangs(Q3, Q4, 2021) Q3 - Septembre Blackstone Forteress: Ascension (last expansion) Bloodbowl New edition Black orcs Imperials Crypt Stealers (very Halloween themed, very likely to be toward the end of October) Other varia game stuff (Kill Team, Aeronautica Imperialis, Adeptus Titanicus) Middle-Earth stuff, out of nowhere as usual New boards games, although they don't usually take a slot in the release schedule Edited August 15, 2020 by Minis by Night 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ggom Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 8 hours ago, MitGas said: It was also more interesting when the Emperor was simply wrong about the Thousand Sons and ordered their execution instead of what it is now which just paints Magnus and most of the other dramatis personae as idiots - yeah, one can say Tzeentch/Horus is such a great master of puppets now but it was much better when Tzeentch's involvement wasn't blatant and they had to turn to him out of sheer necessity. Made the Sons tragic and the Emperor much more grey (and in this one case OBVIOUSLY wrong) than he is now in that storyline. Added depth. I guess that is what I'm arguing for - I want more depth, not less of it. I’m sorry you just triggered the resident Night Lord. The emperor is a corpse god wallowing in the fruit of his folly. In his blind arrogance he doomed humanity to a slow death over millenia, ensuring the eventual triumph of chaos. Death to the false emperor! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badnewsbeers Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 12 hours ago, MitGas said: Compare older lore to the newer stuff. There is at times a big difference, both in maturity as well as quality. When I see stuff like Bloody McBloodnose with his trusty axe Blooddarkblood it is simply ridiculous and one-sided (that goes, to a lesser extent, to the other 3 as well) - compare it with publications like the Liber Chaotica or older Chaos armybooks and you will see sometimes subtle, sometimes blatant alterations to certain passages to make it more cartoonish. Or turn a blind eye if you feel like any sort of criticism is a problem (but then please have the decency to not challenge my words). Fact is what they're putting out now is often times simplified and diluted (or more "kid-friendly") and that is simply a step in the wrong direction for Chaos as its concept should make you think and not just go "oh, those are just bad dudes, yo". That's a waste of great work and depriving younger minds of more mature content (not talking about boobies here, I'm talking about the darkness in our minds) is a missed chance. It was also more interesting when the Emperor was simply wrong about the Thousand Sons and ordered their execution instead of what it is now which just paints Magnus and most of the other dramatis personae as idiots - yeah, one can say Tzeentch/Horus is such a great master of puppets now but it was much better when Tzeentch's involvement wasn't blatant and they had to turn to him out of sheer necessity. Made the Sons tragic and the Emperor much more grey (and in this one case OBVIOUSLY wrong) than he is now in that storyline. Added depth. I guess that is what I'm arguing for - I want more depth, not less of it. I agree with you, but they’re trying to open the game up to a wider audience. I don’t see the trend reversing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 8 hours ago, badnewsbeers said: It was also more interesting when the Emperor was simply wrong about the Thousand Sons and ordered their execution instead of what it is now which just paints Magnus and most of the other dramatis personae as idiots - yeah, one can say Tzeentch/Horus is such a great master of puppets now but it was much better when Tzeentch's involvement wasn't blatant and they had to turn to him out of sheer necessity. Made the Sons tragic and the Emperor much more grey (and in this one case OBVIOUSLY wrong) than he is now in that storyline. Added depth. I guess that is what I'm arguing for - I want more depth, not less of it. Entirely wrong. It doesn't show that Magnus and TS were idiots - it shows that hubris can doom anyone, even someone as wise as Magnus. He wasn't stupid, but thought that no one can be smarter than him (except his father and even then he thought Nikea was a Emperor's mistake) and that he's definitely doing the right thing. He sorta did, because warning the Emperor was important but the way he did it was definitely not right. But that's the whole point of this story - sometimes your own wisdom blinds you if you lack humility. And I'm saying that as TS fan. And Tzeentch involvement wasn't blatant - Magnus still made a deal with him out of necessity (even his biomancy weren't able to save TS) and thought it's just an average warp entity, believing that nothing in the warp can be stronger than him (TBH he had a good reason to think that, until meeting Tzeentch he was the second known strongest psychic being, that can make anyone complacent). Thank you for my TED talk. Remember: all is dust, wolfs are stupid, back to rumours. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfhead Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) I’m really not a fan of dumbing down the lore for a wider audience. The depth and intricacy of the lore is a big part of the appeal of te hobby for me. would be nice if the argument could be made with examples from AoS/fantasy lore though😬 Edited August 16, 2020 by elfhead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 MOD NOTICE I think a debate/discussion on the maturity of the lore and its evolution is worth its own thread rather than clogging up rumours 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnmane Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 So what’s going up for pre-orders tonight? Sons? etb 40K kits? WARCRY?! (I know it’s unlikely) Necromunda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, michu said: Entirely wrong. It doesn't show that Magnus and TS were idiots - it shows that hubris can doom anyone, even someone as wise as Magnus. He wasn't stupid, but thought that no one can be smarter than him (except his father and even then he thought Nikea was a Emperor's mistake) and that he's definitely doing the right thing. He sorta did, because warning the Emperor was important but the way he did it was definitely not right. But that's the whole point of this story - sometimes your own wisdom blinds you if you lack humility. And I'm saying that as TS fan. And Tzeentch involvement wasn't blatant - Magnus still made a deal with him out of necessity (even his biomancy weren't able to save TS) and thought it's just an average warp entity, believing that nothing in the warp can be stronger than him (TBH he had a good reason to think that, until meeting Tzeentch he was the second known strongest psychic being, that can make anyone complacent). Thank you for my TED talk. Remember: all is dust, wolfs are stupid, back to rumours. Thanks for playing but you're missing the whole point of my post obviously. I was talking about their fluff back when the HH novels didn't even exist and it wasn't yet expanded upon either, you're mashing way later iterations with the basic starting lore and accusing me of being wrong - talk about hubris... Trust me, I'm a big TS fan as well (quite possibly one of the biggest out there) but things being 100% the Emperor's fault was way more interesting to me as it painted a very different picture of the universe. That's all I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 17 hours ago, Ggom said: I’m sorry you just triggered the resident Night Lord. The emperor is a corpse god wallowing in the fruit of his folly. In his blind arrogance he doomed humanity to a slow death over millenia, ensuring the eventual triumph of chaos. Death to the false emperor! How right you are, most noble Ggom. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 21 hours ago, xking said: You are being really aggressive. I asked you a question, to explain what you meant. I don't know why you saw that as "challenging your words". Sorry, my fault for wording it wrongly then - I understood your post as a more polite "WTF are you clown talking about". 😅 Sorry for having gone off-topic here then, I really couldn't help myself after so many really interesting posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverstu Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Dawnmane said: So what’s going up for pre-orders tonight? Sons? etb 40K kits? WARCRY?! (I know it’s unlikely) Necromunda? Necromunda or 40k I'd say are most likely.. really hoping for more Warcry news soon [even just to see the rest of the Khainite war band ]. I guess we might get some reveals in September looking forward to the run up to Christmas.. releases seem to be pretty solid through to the end of October.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, MitGas said: Thanks for playing but you're missing the whole point of my post obviously. I was talking about their fluff back when the HH novels didn't even exist and it wasn't yet expanded upon either, you're mashing way later iterations with the basic starting lore and accusing me of being wrong - talk about hubris... Trust me, I'm a big TS fan as well (quite possibly one of the biggest out there) but things being 100% the Emperor's fault was way more interesting to me as it painted a very different picture of the universe. That's all I'm saying. Disagree. Being it 100% one person fault is more shallow (at least for me). It's more interesting and with more grey areas when all sides can be right and wrong. I don't exactly know the first iteration of the story (was it in Realm of Chaos?) but if it was simply "Magnus was right, Emperor was wrong" then it was shallow and one-dimensional. They all can be slightly right or slightly wrong, like, you know, regular people. "Quite possibly one of the biggest out there" - and I'm accused of hubris there... Anyway, back to rumours. Edited August 16, 2020 by michu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, michu said: Disagree. Being it 100% one person fault is more shallow (at least for me). It's more interesting and with more grey areas when all sides can be right and wrong. I don't exactly know the first iteration of the story (was it in Realm of Chaos?) but if it was simply "Magnus was right, Emperor was wrong" then it was shallow and one-dimensional. They all can be slightly right or slightly wrong, like, you know, regular people. "Quite possibly one of the biggest out there" - and I'm accused of hubris there... Anyway, back to rumours. Cause it might interest you and other people big on TS: Magnus was at fault back then too for using magic (the damage it caused was WAY less problematic then) but the Emperor ordered their execution simply because he disobeyed him (Horus didn't change his orders to Russ) which made him quite a petty tyrant and the 1k Sons very tragic figures. So yeah, it wasn't 100% the Emperor's fault but a MASSIVE overreaction. I liked it more that the Sons were much more victims of circumstances than they are now (where they kinda ask for it multiple times and are much more proactive in their own damnation) as it's a horrific reflection of real life: where good people often get dealt horrible fates and become evil without actually having had a single bad bone in their body. Maybe a bit of dust tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michu Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) We really need to move this to another thread (or even maybe another forum as this is for AoS). But I don't feel that TS are less tragic or story less deep (quite contrary) - they were still the "good" guys there. They wanted to do the right thing, but it backfired horribly because of their hubris and Emperor's being a tyrant that keep terrible secrets from his sons. It's still tragedy, but not "we were good but we still got punished" rather "we were good, tried to help, but because of our failings and things beyond our knowledge, we worsened what we were trying to stop, yet the punishment was still to harsh". Quite deep right? And maybe for last time: does anyone have some rumours? Edited August 16, 2020 by michu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 So to get things back on topic: there is something I have been meaning to ask related to Underworlds and new releases. A number of people see the release of certain Underworld factions as being potential hints for upcoming factions. I am just curious if this has any basis in past releases? I know that Zarbag's Gitz predated the release of Gloomspite and Godsworn Hunt predated Slaves to Darkness. However, both of these releases were still tied to legacy factions. So I am curious how long between the release of such Underworld warbands and the release of their respective battletomes? Also was there ever a case in the past like Skaeth's Wild Hunt, Rippa's Snarlfangs, and this upcoming undead faction in which the Underworld warbands felt so wildly idiosyncratic to preexisting factions? I am easily won over by rumours of Kurnothi and Gitmob Grots/Grotbag Scuttlers due to the existence of these Warbands but I am curious if I am simply being foolish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dawnmane said: So what’s going up for pre-orders tonight? Sons? etb 40K kits? WARCRY?! (I know it’s unlikely) Necromunda? Sons are confirmed after the Lumineth and they have an Audio Drama for Pre Order October 10th. So the rest of the range is also likely in October. Edited August 16, 2020 by KingBrodd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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