The Rumour Thread

[KingBrodd]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/29/the-forges-are-relit/

Forgeworld Pre Orders are going up on Friday. Does this mean theyll be separate from standard Pre Orders?

[Melcavuk]

Forgeworld preorders have always been a friday event.

[Still-young]

25 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/29/the-forges-are-relit/

Forgeworld Pre Orders are going up on Friday. Does this mean theyll be separate from standard Pre Orders?

They always have been. 

[Yeled]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

The solution is to have the monster be able to threaten those 20 dudes to the point where they need to avoid combat with it. if your monster is going to kill 10-15 models, and the 20 dudes are only going to put a handful of wounds into the monster, there becomes an incentive to take the monster.

Just imagine what the aleguzzler would look like if his club was 2 damage, his headbutt 6, and his kick 3, it would raise his average damage to ~9 against a 4+ save from ~4 damage, plus he has the grab attack. sure he's not going to be holding points, but blobs of infantry will get smashed by it, and even bravery 10 stuff would need inspiring presence to stick together.

This is exactly right. Monsters are under powered in AoS. They have fewer wounds than units, usually do less damage, and deteriorate quickly. Not only is an extra block of guys almost always better for the reasons you point out, but monsters simply don't feel right in AoS. They should be something units fear. Sure, they can't hold objectives. But if stated correctly they could be something that is simply awful to engage.

On top of giving them more offensive output, I would give behemoth units more staying power. Maybe something like a 4+ ward save against  no rend attacks and 5+ ward save against rend 1.  Maybe that's too much, but they should be a rock to a normal infantry unit's scissors.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Yeled

[Ganigumo]

4 minutes ago, Yeled said:

This is exactly right. Monsters are under powered in AoS. They have fewer wounds than units, usually do less damage, and deteriorate quickly. Not only is an extra block of guys almost always better for the reasons you point out, but monsters simply don't feel right in AoS. They should be something units fear. Sure, they can't hold objectives. But if stated correctly they could be something that is simply awful to engage.

On top of giving them more offensive output, I would give behemoth units more staying power. Maybe something like a 4+ ward save against  no rend attacks and 5+ ward save against rend 1.  Maybe that's too much, but they should be a rock to a normal infantry unit's scissors.

I think that should be dependent on the monster, big expensive tough ones should always be dangerous to blobs, even if they're on the defensive, where cheaper monsters like aleguzzlers and ghorgons need to be screened as they will lose some of their punch if they're struck first and be caught on a weaker profile.

[Carnelian]

Couldn't resist

Edited July 29, 2020 by Carnelian

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

Forgeworld preorders have always been a friday event.

 

2 hours ago, Still-young said:

They always have been. 

Sorry guys been out of the game too long.

1 hour ago, Carnelian said:

Couldn't resist

This is the best.

[alghero81]

Theoretically Malerion is a real all powerful god while Morathi just an excellent sorceress with demi-god attitude, so while not impossible, logic would want Morathi alone should not be able to take Malerion 1 on 1....

I find Nagash’s death an easier event to pull off and also more likely as it did happen multiple times in the past. It could also further expand Death in interesting directions...

[KriticalKhan]

1 hour ago, alghero81 said:

I find Nagash’s death an easier event to pull off and also more likely as it did happen multiple times in the past. It could also further expand Death in interesting directions...

Nagash gets bullied enough, I think the guy deserves a break.

[Tropical Ghost General]

A bit off topic, but anyone know when the GHB20 FAQ will be out? 

I thought that it's normally on the Tuesday, after 2 weeks of it's general release date (roughly 17 days). 

Anyone know the reason why it's not released yet? (And busy with 40k is not an acceptable answer 😂) 

[Kramer]

12 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

The problema for the most part is that it makes taking behemoths more of a liability.  Most of the times you are better off taking another battleline/unit, there is no real incentive to take a monster over a block of 20 guys (of course there are exceptions).

Isn’t that a problem with the monster? Not the core mechanics of capturing objectives? 

Same goes for other expensive support models. Nobody has a problem with taking a hurricanum even though it’s only one body. 

[Thiagoma]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Isn’t that a problem with the monster? Not the core mechanics of capturing objectives? 

Same goes for other expensive support models. Nobody has a problem with taking a hurricanum even though it’s only one body. 

Not really, i would say it is a problem across the board.

Lets say you for an example can get a Monster or 20 soldiers for the same cost. Usually here is what happens:

- The soldiers got a larger footprint, more wounds, scale better with buffs and probably deal more damage .In some instances, models can be ressurected.

- The monster counts as 1, scale down with damage (usually after 3 or 4 dmg) and only gets a CA or Artifact if Hero (and unamed)

 

Of course some models as the Hurricanum have strong traits that make then worth taking, but i would say there is more "bad" behemoths than good ones, specially non hero ones.

I am not a professional player, game designer or anything but i belive there should be a small revamp on the monster concept of AoS. Maybe giving a monster a number of "capture bodies" equal to its current number. Or make monster stats decrease slower, who knows?

I am just a dude who likes to field by monsters 🤣

 

[RuneBrush]

2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

A bit off topic, but anyone know when the GHB20 FAQ will be out? 

I thought that it's normally on the Tuesday, after 2 weeks of it's general release date (roughly 17 days). 

Anyone know the reason why it's not released yet? (And busy with 40k is not an acceptable answer 😂) 

GW aren't back running on a normal keel yet, quite a few members of staff are still doing work from home I believe so not surprised it's not out quite yet.  Within the UK, the event/tournament scene is still closed too, so there's likely to be less feedback going in than normal that could also have an effect.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

Not really, i would say it is a problem across the board.

Lets say you for an example can get a Monster or 20 soldiers for the same cost. Usually here is what happens:

- The soldiers got a larger footprint, more wounds, scale better with buffs and probably deal more damage .In some instances, models can be ressurected.

- The monster counts as 1, scale down with damage (usually after 3 or 4 dmg) and only gets a CA or Artifact if Hero (and unamed)

 

Of course some models as the Hurricanum have strong traits that make then worth taking, but i would say there is more "bad" behemoths than good ones, specially non hero ones.

I am not a professional player, game designer or anything but i belive there should be a small revamp on the monster concept of AoS. Maybe giving a monster a number of "capture bodies" equal to its current number. Or make monster stats decrease slower, who knows?

I am just a dude who likes to field by monsters 🤣

 

Maybe giving them the stomp again.

[Enoby]

I know adding strength and toughness are a bit contentious in AoS, but I think some form of it would at least help monsters. In 40k, if your Imperial Knight gets hit by 60 grots, they'll all be wounding on 6s so it's not very scary for the knight (which I think is thematically and mechanically right). In AoS, if you surround a Maw Krusha with 60 grots, the Maw Krusha will take heavy damage if not outright die. 

While adding actual Strength and Toughness would be a lot of hard work outside of a new edition, and would probably require a lot of rebalancing, they could  add something like Toughness lite. For example, a general rule saying "Units without the Monster keyword have -1 to wound against units with the Monster Keyword". I know this wouldn't quite cover everything but I think it'd help the issue where monsters feel like they die to a stiff breeze.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

Of course some models as the Hurricanum have strong traits that make then worth taking, but i would say there is more "bad" behemoths than good ones, specially non hero ones.

I am not a professional player, game designer or anything but i belive there should be a small revamp on the monster concept of AoS. Maybe giving a monster a number of "capture bodies" equal to its current number. Or make monster stats decrease slower, who knows?

I am just a dude who likes to field by monsters 🤣

We all are that dude from time to time  

But you kind of make my point for me I feel. I agree more of them are "bad" as they don't really fill a role. They can't capture objectives, they can't clear them, and don't buff/debuff. But thats an issue with those warscrolls as there are plenty who do work, because they have a role. They don't need a core rule change to have a value. 

My personal feeling is that the monster should clear the objective of infantry when they hit. But the scenario should make a pure monster list a too skewed list to win. Except for monster factions like Beastclaw and the new Gargants. 

So the turtles from Idoneth for example, in my mind they should be crazy powerful (think Mortek Crawler), survivable and mobile gun platforms. Every round should halve a squad of 'normal' warriors. But in the end if you bring 5 of them you wouldn't have enough points and bodies left to score enough points. 

But either that is very hard to balance or GW have a different philosophy. But again this of course all personal preferences of the role of monsters in game. In my mind they should be rare wrecking balls. Insert Miley Cyrus .gif here.

 

[KingBrodd]

The realist in me says the Sons drop in September, but the hopeful in me says August.

They literally could do 3 articles in one week and drop them, no need to drip feed like the Lumineth.

One article covers lore and motivations.

Another covers Sub Factions.

And the third covers the kit itself. Considering it's one kit that can make 3 entirely different looking Gargants I cannot wait to see what comes with it, especially basing extras. I'm hoping for another sign such as the one from the Aleguzzler and more of Johanns extended Mortal Realms family. A crushed wagon or cart would also be amazing.

Edited July 30, 2020 by KingBrodd

[silverstu]

23 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Yes there is. He is revered to as one of the lesser gods that the Sylvaneth worship. And also some others like humans and aelves when they go on hunts. His worship is confined mostly to Ghyran. The rest of the information is almost all about the Kurnothi Hunters and the Wild Hunt. 

That’s one of the good “problems” of AoS, there are so many interesting directions they can go, extend and update existing armies, Kurnothi, Malerion’s forces, Tyrion’s Lumineth, Grungni duradin, all kinds of vampires, stuff no one has on their minds like the insect faction we might see in Underworlds and whatnot.

I’m just happy that finally after 5 years I got “my” army, and no pretty much can relax and see what comes next. 

Cheers for that! Yeah I really love that about AoS is how diverse it is [although it can be a pain to see if a certain faction materialises] - I totally love the Kharadrons and that was a faction that really surprised me. A single small set of the Kurnothi has me grabbed me too when the other aelven factions haven't. I'm interested to see what else comes along, especially more types of dwarf.

On 7/29/2020 at 12:52 PM, Beliman said:

I like that post!!

Is there any hint for wave 2 kits for AoS armies?

I mean, if your army can take any Fantasy models (or SCE), then your army probably has a lot of unique and diferent units to play with.

But if your army was 100% created in AoS, it probably has an small roster. And the only thing that I saw in the lasts years are the called  "soap battletomes" to create new "Big Armies" but this can only work in some armies like Orruks Warclans or even Malerion and Morathi Aelfs, but not sure if it will work for Fyrelsayers and KOs.

Theres been no confirmation or rumour of a second wave- they could continue making micro factions and exploring races, combining older factions together to streamline the ranges a little. I can't see Fyre Slayers and KO together, maybe with a new dwarf faction connecting them - maybe if the dispossessed re-possessed their old empire? The mentions of Grungni's endeavours are interesting but they sound like they are way off. I think we might see some new stuff/angles on dwarfs through Warcry and Underworlds in the meantime. There was one very very old rumour [from Warseer during End Times] of a mining machine- new dwarfs could focus on the mining/smithing/forging background of dwarfs since we have the slayer type and engineer type expanded into full factions.

[Lich King]

   I would get rid of the damage chart and sub in a “ last breathe” line where it states - “if this model had 3 wounds or less remaining, use these stats “. That way the monsters stay at peak strength for most of their lifespan while only decreasing once if it’s at its final wounds. 
    
I would also get rid of the horde discount for all units. This seems to be the simplest and most effective way to keep monsters somewhat threatening. 

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, silverstu said:

Cheers for that! Yeah I really love that about AoS is how diverse it is [although it can be a pain to see if a certain faction materialises] - I totally love the Kharadrons and that was a faction that really surprised me. A single small set of the Kurnothi has me grabbed me too when the other aelven factions haven't. I'm interested to see what else comes along, especially more types of dwarf.

Theres been no confirmation or rumour of a second wave- they could continue making micro factions and exploring races, combining older factions together to streamline the ranges a little. I can't see Fyre Slayers and KO together, maybe with a new dwarf faction connecting them - maybe if the dispossessed re-possessed their old empire? The mentions of Grungni's endeavours are interesting but they sound like they are way off. I think we might see some new stuff/angles on dwarfs through Warcry and Underworlds in the meantime. There was one very very old rumour [from Warseer during End Times] of a mining machine- new dwarfs could focus on the mining/smithing/forging background of dwarfs since we have the slayer type and engineer type expanded into full factions.

I'm very interested as well in where they're going to take the Duardin. I'd love either as you say, a Dispossed force that has retaken their holds, hardening back to classic WHFB as the Lumineth have for the Aelves or just as exciting is the prospect of Ranger type Duardin. Though that might be a limited size force, so I could definitely see Ranger or Nomad Duardin coming to Warcry or Underworlds.

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Duardin. Though that might be a limited size force, so I could definitely see Ranger or Nomad Duardin coming to Warcry or Underworlds.

Or.. we could add a duardin ranger unit into the Dispossessed faction.

just like old times 😉

[Verminlord]

2 hours ago, silverstu said:

Cheers for that! Yeah I really love that about AoS is how diverse it is [although it can be a pain to see if a certain faction materialises] - I totally love the Kharadrons and that was a faction that really surprised me. A single small set of the Kurnothi has me grabbed me too when the other aelven factions haven't. I'm interested to see what else comes along, especially more types of dwarf.

Theres been no confirmation or rumour of a second wave- they could continue making micro factions and exploring races, combining older factions together to streamline the ranges a little. I can't see Fyre Slayers and KO together, maybe with a new dwarf faction connecting them - maybe if the dispossessed re-possessed their old empire? The mentions of Grungni's endeavours are interesting but they sound like they are way off. I think we might see some new stuff/angles on dwarfs through Warcry and Underworlds in the meantime. There was one very very old rumour [from Warseer during End Times] of a mining machine- new dwarfs could focus on the mining/smithing/forging background of dwarfs since we have the slayer type and engineer type expanded into full factions.

Well there was a big rumor post on Warhammer community that hinted at the return of bugman. I wonder if there is a booze focused army/warband based around valaya goddess of hearth, healing and brewing who has also been mentioned in lore and is the only unrepresented dwarf god. Maybe even some fem dwarfs?

Edit: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/15/mysteries-of-the-mortal-realmsgw-homepage-post-1/

Edited July 30, 2020 by Verminlord

[Kurrilino]

9 hours ago, Enoby said:

I know adding strength and toughness are a bit contentious in AoS, but I think some form of it would at least help monsters. In 40k, if your Imperial Knight gets hit by 60 grots, they'll all be wounding on 6s so it's not very scary for the knight (which I think is thematically and mechanically right). In AoS, if you surround a Maw Krusha with 60 grots, the Maw Krusha will take heavy damage if not outright die. 

While adding actual Strength and Toughness would be a lot of hard work outside of a new edition, and would probably require a lot of rebalancing, they could  add something like Toughness lite. For example, a general rule saying "Units without the Monster keyword have -1 to wound against units with the Monster Keyword". I know this wouldn't quite cover everything but I think it'd help the issue where monsters feel like they die to a stiff breeze.

I believe rend is already taking the spot of Strength

[Enoby]

Just now, Kurrilino said:

I believe rend is already taking the spot of Strength

Perhaps in a way, but to compare it to 8e 40k, rend is AP (works exactly the same as well). I think strength and toughness are different because they offer an extra layer of defence against troops specifically, and an extra layer of offence against troops. For example, a daemonette has the same chance of causing wounds to an ungor (with shield) compared to a cygor - the rend helps bring them both down equally. If strength and toughness existed, then maybe the daemonette would wound ungors on a 4, but cygors on a 5 or 6, meaning the cygor would have that extra layer before a wound was lost. So rend is an equal interaction between warscrolls, whereas S and T are more focused on small model vs medium models vs big models.

While you could argue that more wounds replace toughness (the ungor will miss one wound more than the cygor will), when we look at hordes of models then the hordes have more wounds overall. As in, it's just as easy to take down 14 wounds of ungor vs 14 wounds of cygor no matter who you are, and the ungor will probably have 6 extra wounds (if points are equal). By the same reasoning, cygors find it just as easy to wound Archaon as they do a goblin with their horns. 

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be too hard to introduce strength and toughness into AoS without major revisions and it may not be worth it in the end (adding complexity and probably more balance issues), but like I said I'd like to see monsters gain extra protection against hordes because currently greater daemons etc (while usually very strong) feel like they last a few seconds on the battlefield against some regular blokes with swords charging them. For me I think the issue is the narrative of it; when I play Chaos Knights in 40k I feel like they take a lot to take down unless the opponent has weapons designed against them. The only monster I feel in AoS that's tough to take down is buffed Archaon. It feels like these godly creatures aren't capable of taking a few hits from something that comes up to their knee. 

[JackStreicher]

7 hours ago, Lich King said:

 I would get rid of the damage chart and sub in a “ last breathe” line where it states - “if this model had 3 wounds or less remaining, use these stats “. That way the monsters stay at peak strength for most of their lifespan while only decreasing once if it’s at its final wounds. 

+1

The chart is cool and fun, yet most monsters decease too much too fast. I‘d be ok with 3 brackets:

Healthy

half life

last 1-2 hp

Edit: And maybe a feel no pain (4 or 5+) VS everything that is neither a hero, mounted (or a mount), a monster or 8 or wounds.

Edited July 30, 2020 by JackStreicher