The Rumour Thread

[JCar09]

This is bad for death too

[Raptor_Jesues]

30 minutes ago, JCar09 said:

This is bad for death too

not for me , i play soulblight and suck already as much as i can

Edited July 4, 2020 by Raptor_Jesues

[Sedraxis]

1 hour ago, Third said:

This looks pretty legit.. And changes A LOT!

 

The sad part is that this hits the lower performing armies where the top contenders rely on high damage output.

I think it's a good change in the long run, but armies like STD will suffer even more. It also disables a lot of spells, abilities and artefacts for armies that are thematically durable or resistant to magic.

I'd rather see a rule that disables stacking extra attacks and mortal wound output.

[Icegoat]

Wut this rule is terrible.  Disgustingly resilient is destroyed now. So many abilities have been destroyed by this. Crazy. I bet petrifiex still keep their 3+ though. Wow. Makes sense why putrid blughtkings are cheaper they just list half their resilience 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Icegoat

[Dankboss]

How many units actually have more than one after save? This just means you get your armor save, and then you get one DPR.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

4 hours ago, SunStorm said:

Pre-ordered. Very much looking forward to the create-a-hero section. I've got a feeling that for a kitbasher, it's going to open up all sorts of crazy modelling ideas. 

So much this. I can’t wait to be able to bring my conversions to life on the tabletop properly! 

[Well of Eternity]

7 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

How many units actually have more than one after save? This just means you get your armor save, and then you get one DPR.

Whole Nurgle StD army, phoenixes,  phoenix guard  with luminarc,  chaos ascendant legion, death factions, skaven, heroes with artefacts....

Edited July 4, 2020 by Well of Eternity

[TimeToWaste85]

The way it’s written you get armor save AND disgustingly resilient. You just can’t add more than that. Pretty sure people are mis-panicking. 

[Nezzhil]

0-3 Endless spells in tournaments. Thank god!

EDIT: Image removed, sorry guys... you must trust me.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Nezzhil

[Azamar]

4 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

The way it’s written you get armor save AND disgustingly resilient. You just can’t add more than that. Pretty sure people are mis-panicking. 

Precisely. If that’s legit you get one roll to negate after wounds have been allocated. But all armour saves are made before wounds are allocated. It won’t affect the majority of wound/mortal wound negating abilities, but cuts back on stuff like Nagash having 2 attempts to negate a mortal wound, then being able to pass of the mortal wound to a morghast and attempt  to negate it again. 

[Raptor_Jesues]

1 minute ago, Azamar said:

Precisely. If that’s legit you get one roll to negate after wounds have been allocated. But all armour saves are made before wounds are allocated. It won’t affect the majority of wound/mortal wound negating abilities, but cuts back on stuff like Nagash having 2 attempts to negate a mortal wound, then being able to pass of the mortal wound to a morghast and attempt  to negate it again. 

exactly

 

[HollowHills]

Btw just to warn some people that you're not allowed to post leaked images. The mods will probably warn you / give you naughty points for it.

I dislike the rule, but I don't want new users getting in trouble.

[Icegoat]

It precisely says only one dice roll can be made per wound. Only one dice roll. This has just destroyed my entire nurgle army. 

[Mutton]

4 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

It precisely says only one dice roll can be made per wound. Only one dice roll. This has just destroyed my entire nurgle army. 

I wouldn't be too concerned my friend. Maggotkin are first in line for a book refresh.

[HollowHills]

5 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

It precisely says only one dice roll can be made per wound. Only one dice roll. This has just destroyed my entire nurgle army. 

You get a normal save and a ward save. If you needed 2 ward saves to make the army work then it was a bad list.

I suspect this is just trolling again.

[swarmofseals]

10 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

It precisely says only one dice roll can be made per wound. Only one dice roll. This has just destroyed my entire nurgle army. 

One dice roll per wound allocated. Armor saves happen before wounds are allocated to models. Special ("ward") saves happy after wounds are allocated. So if you have multiple ward saves this rule affects you, but if you have an armor save and one ward save then it does not.

Here are some concrete examples.

Imagine you have a unit with a 4+ armor save and a 5+ ward save. Your opponent rolls a damage three attack, hits, and wounds.

At this point no damage has been allocated yet. You have to roll your armor save to prevent the damage. You roll one die. If you roll 4+ you take no damage. If you roll a 1, 2 or 3 you take 3 damage. This is your armor save.

Let's say you fail the armor save. Now you allocate 3 damage and roll 3 dice for your ward save. For each 5+ you negate one damage.

Under the new rule things work exactly the same. You roll your 1 armor save for each successful attack and then roll 1 ward save die for each damage allocated. You lose nothing.

If you had a 4+ armor save and two 6+ ward saves, however, you would only be able to take one of those 6+ saves under this new rule.

_____

People should also note that under this new rule abilities that allow you to ignore the effects of a spell are different from ward saves. Hallowheart rolls to ignore a spell before the damage from the spell is even rolled. So if you have a spell ignore ability and a ward save you still get to do both under the new rule.

[Marcvs]

57 minutes ago, Azamar said:

Precisely. If that’s legit you get one roll to negate after wounds have been allocated. But all armour saves are made before wounds are allocated. It won’t affect the majority of wound/mortal wound negating abilities, but cuts back on stuff like Nagash having 2 attempts to negate a mortal wound, then being able to pass of the mortal wound to a morghast and attempt  to negate it again. 

I think this does not apply to abilities which allow passing wounds to someone else (Saurus Guard, retinue etc), since they are triggered "before you allocate a wound or mortal wound", so you can have armor save -> passing wounds -> one and only one FNP for each of these wounds

[TimeToWaste85]

I think the only thing this really prevents is Verminlord Seer or Nurgle Legion of Chaos Ascendent and similar stuff; 5+/5++/5++/5++. Now it’s 5+/5++ and that’s it. GW made it very clear they don’t want unkillable Death Stars anymore. We shouldn’t either. A 2+/3++ re-rollable ScreamerStar was fun in 40k tournaments and abusive everywhere else because you couldn’t lose with it. This is a strategy game, not a “click, I win”. I PLAY Chaos, in every form except Beasts, and I appreciate these changes. Including the Realm artifacts. And yes, i day that as a player who felt a thermal-rider cloaked Keeper was an auto include before. 

[Ghoooouls]

1 hour ago, Azamar said:

Precisely. If that’s legit you get one roll to negate after wounds have been allocated. But all armour saves are made before wounds are allocated. It won’t affect the majority of wound/mortal wound negating abilities, but cuts back on stuff like Nagash having 2 attempts to negate a mortal wound, then being able to pass of the mortal wound to a morghast and attempt  to negate it again. 

Nagash cant do this, both morghasts and the immortis guard can take nagashs wounds, but the roll for nagash to shrug the wounds to them is *before* allocating wounds. Since ward saves are done when allocating a wound and then negate them, nagash only gets his armour save, then shrugs the wound to his guard, who then *do not* get an armour save, but *do* get their own ward save, as you allocate the wound to them.

 

For instance - nagashs 4++ is done 'each time you allocate a wound to this model' - seeing as the roll to shrug off the wound to his guard is done 'before allocating wounds', he cannot do both his ward save and the shrug.

 

But what nagash could do before this rule is have a 2+ rerolling 1s save, then a 2+ shrug onto immortis guard who have a 5++ from the spell ossiarch have, then a 6++ from their allegiance ability. If nagash failed the shrug and rolled a 1, he would then get a 4++, a 5++ from the spell that targets the caster and then a 6++ from allegiance. He can then also heal himself and his guard for 3 per turn automatically. I'm glad this rule is being introduced!

Edited July 4, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Ghoooouls]

10 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

I think the only thing this really prevents is Verminlord Seer or Nurgle Legion of Chaos Ascendent and similar stuff; 5+/5++/5++/5++. Now it’s 5+/5++ and that’s it. GW made it very clear they don’t want unkillable Death Stars anymore. We shouldn’t either. A 2+/3++ re-rollable ScreamerStar was fun in 40k tournaments and abusive everywhere else because you couldn’t lose with it. This is a strategy game, not a “click, I win”. I PLAY Chaos, in every form except Beasts, and I appreciate these changes. Including the Realm artifacts. And yes, i day that as a player who felt a thermal-rider cloaked Keeper was an auto include before. 

Yeah I agree this is a big step in the right direction. I play LoN and FEC and I am happy this is being introduced.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[lare2]

25 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

42 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

It precisely says only one dice roll can be made per wound. Only one dice roll. This has just destroyed my entire nurgle army. 

One dice roll per wound allocated. Armor saves happen before wounds are allocated to models. Special ("ward") saves happy after wounds are allocated. So if you have multiple ward saves this rule affects you, but if you have an armor save and one ward save then it does not.

This 👍

Edited July 4, 2020 by lare2

[ReyD1]

So Sons of Behemat has no named character ?
Damn I was waiting for a surprise announcements.

Well I guess it will be a pretty limited army. I'm wondering if they will expand the line one day. Lot of things to do with Gargants in terms of crazy design etc...

[Ghoooouls]

1 minute ago, ReyD1 said:

So Sons of Behemat has no named character ?
Damn I was waiting for a surprise announcements.

Well I guess it will be a pretty limited army. I'm wondering if they will expand the line one day. Lot of things to do with Gargants in terms of crazy design etc...

Have I missed a sons of behemat leak? Could you say which page it's on?

 

Thanks!

[Kramer]

56 minutes ago, Icegoat said:

It precisely says only one dice roll can be made per wound. Only one dice roll. This has just destroyed my entire nurgle army. 

Dude, your armies get destroyed as soon as GW looks at them. Or at least that’s how you experience it. Or just trolling, still my guess. 

but as too why you’re interpreting this wrong. You wound after save. 
So it’s Failed armoured save -> wound  -> disgustingly resilient. 
this change only means you can’t get another save after that. 

[Azamar]

23 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Nagash cant do this, both morghasts and the immortis guard can take nagashs wounds, but the roll for nagash to shrug the wounds to them is *before* allocating wounds. Since ward saves are done when allocating a wound and then negate them, nagash only gets his armour save, then shrugs the wound to his guard, who then *do not* get an armour save, but *do* get their own ward save, as you allocate the wound to them.

 

For instance - nagashs 4++ is done 'each time you allocate a wound to this model' - seeing as the roll to shrug off the wound to his guard is done 'before allocating wounds', he cannot do both his ward save and the shrug.

 

But what nagash could do before this rule is have a 2+ rerolling 1s save, then a 2+ shrug onto immortis guard who have a 5++ from the spell ossiarch have, then a 6++ from their allegiance ability. If nagash failed the shrug and rolled a 1, he would then get a 4++, a 5++ from the spell that targets the caster and then a 6++ from allegiance. He can then also heal himself and his guard for 3 per turn automatically. I'm glad this rule is being introduced!

Sorry that was a bad example then (and means I didn’t spot it was wrong when I was on the receiving end it). But my point was that you can still make an armour save, then use an ability to ignore each wound suffered. 
 

Fwiw, I totally agree negating a wound isn’t the same as deflecting it to another friendly unit, so you can still make both with the new rule. That was just the biggest (albeit incorrect) number of stacking rolls I could think of.