The Rumour Thread

[michu]

10 hours ago, valenswift said:

Am I the only thinking the GHB looks a bit disappointing? Apart from the new points values I’m not really interested in any of it looking at that contents page. 

And I'm the opposite. It's the Matched Play section that I have almost no interest with. And TBH I don't know what you were expecting. GHB is for every style of play but with each release I see that Matched Play players would like for GW to cater only to them. Just because you don't use some content, doesn't mean no one does.

[valenswift]

10 minutes ago, michu said:

And I'm the opposite. It's the Matched Play section that I have almost no interest with. And TBH I don't know what you were expecting. GHB is for every style of play but with each release I see that Matched Play players would like for GW to cater only to them. Just because you don't use some content, doesn't mean no one does.

Im not a tournament player and my group play a mix of open, narrative and matches play. But the flying battles has been done before including a new mini game in White Dwarf recently and the narrative play section is for team battles. This has also been touched upon before and can easily be house ruled. Then the rest of the book from page 68-129 is all matched play with a lot of that rehashing battle plans and tournament packs from last year. When they started the General’s Handbook and said it would be released annually I did wonder how long they would be able to keep up with new content, for me this is the year they ran out. 

[valenswift]

9 hours ago, Kasper said:

Just curious, but what did you expect out of the GHB? To me it is just point updates, updated alligiance abilities (think they all got a battletome now), new/changed battleplans and a bunch of fluffy stuff I will never play around with. Im super happy that they are updating the realm rules, might actually use them now. 

To be honest it’s exactly what I expected. I’ve always felt that they’d run out of new ideas for the General’s Handbook and this year they finally have. Can the points value booklet be bought separately?

[JackStreicher]

Idk, first I considered the Warlord Edition and then they showed us the preview.

Now I am not certain if I want it at all.

It feels hollow without those allegiances.

I just hope they use the GHB as a vehicle to rework warscrolls - that might make me buy it

[michu]

1 minute ago, valenswift said:

But the flying battles has been done before including a new mini game in White Dwarf recently and the narrative play section is for team battles. This has also been touched upon before and can easily be house ruled

1. GW has recently started to publish WD rules in their annual update books like Chapter Approved, KT Annual. It's for people that don't buy WD but still want to use it. 

2. Yes, team rules were in the core book. But those are updated rules. In old rules you didnt't have coalition matrix. And there are new battleplans. And maybe more. We stiil don't know everything. There is also "create your own hero warscroll" section and new army and terrain generator.

3. By that logic everything can be house ruled - the point of GHB  is to provide inspiration and a basic structure for your game. And some people prefer to have official rules.

4 minutes ago, valenswift said:

Then the rest of the book from page 68-129 is all matched play with a lot of that rehashing battle plans and tournament packs from last year.T

That's the point of Matched Play section.  It's not for reinventing the wheel but for slight updates. Changing terrain rules, new Command Abilities, rebalancing the battleplans (And there are two that were  not in last GHB).

3 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

It feels hollow without those allegiances.

Quite the opposite. It's finally free of them.

[Beastmaster]

So, the grand alliances are basically dead? 

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Beastmaster said:

So, the grand alliances are basically dead? 

Yes. But also the individual factions soup books are constructed from.

Edited June 30, 2020 by zilberfrid

[Kasper]

33 minutes ago, valenswift said:

To be honest it’s exactly what I expected. I’ve always felt that they’d run out of new ideas for the General’s Handbook and this year they finally have. Can the points value booklet be bought separately?

If all you care about is points I probably wouldnt buy it and just rely on warscroll builder, or wait for the points to be leaked shortly after. To me the new updated realm rules and updated/new battleplans are very much worth it though.

I dont feel like they are "running out of ideas". They are fleshing out a system (realm rules) that largely were ignored outside of tournaments, and to my experience some tournaments started excluding them too. Streamlining it is only a win in my eyes, not a failure at all.

There is also the whole narrative/open play stuff with sky battles and ways to play with multiple players. It isnt something for me, but Im glad it is there because not everybody is dead set on playing 2.000 pts matched play like me.

[Aelfric]

I am interested to see how they've updated Meeting Engagements; hopefully, they have ironed out some of the teething problems.

[Beastmaster]

18 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Yes. But also the individual factions soup books are constructed from.

Good. I always felt the grand alliances, especially Order, were a bit forced. 🙂

And those little factions had to go at some point to not clutter everything.

I also like that the Skaven are the only ones who won’t even trust their own kind. 😎

Edited June 30, 2020 by Beastmaster

[michu]

22 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

So, the grand alliances are basically dead? 

That's for mached multiplayer games. GA are still alive.

4 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Good. I always felt the grand alliances, especially Order, were a bit forced. 🙂

They aren't? You want the world to thrive? Order. You want the world to beconsumed by your gods? Chaos. You are undead? Death. You want to smash things for fun? Destruction.

[King Under the Mountain]

33 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

So, the grand alliances are basically dead? 

I wont rub it in too much but if this is the case I feel very vindicated.  Had many arguments (especially on discord) on how outdated the Grand Alliance system is. 

[Beastmaster]

7 minutes ago, michu said:

That's for mached multiplayer games. GA are still alive.

They aren't? You want the world to thrive? Order. You want the world to beconsumed by your gods? Chaos. You are undead? Death. You want to smash things for fun? Destruction.

Do assassin snakes or soul-stealing fish elves really want the world to thrive? Do the Skaven have any interest in the other chaos gods besides their Horned Rat? Do Ogors have any prejudice as to who it is they’re eating and who is happy watching them do it?

Questions for the philosophers. 😁

[michu]

4 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Do assassin snakes or soul-stealing fish elves really want the world to thrive?

Yes? They want for it to exist and thrive in their way. Chaos worpshippers think they want the world to exist under their rule but their gods really want to consume it. Khaine (Morathi) and let's say Volturnos, as Mathlann is not available at the moment, want their civilisations to thrive.

5 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Do the Skaven have any interest in the other chaos gods besides their Horned Rat?

Khorne followers don't care about Tzeentch too. At most they want to dethrone other gods. GHR is a chaos god, Skaven are agents of chaos. People who think Skaven should be in Destruction don't understand Skaven. Skaven want to corrupt and conquer not bash some skulls and have fun.

8 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Do Ogors have any prejudice as to who it is they’re eating and who is happy watching them do it

No. And that's my point.  That's the whole point of Destruction. Do whatever you want, whenever you want. 

[King Under the Mountain]

18 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Do assassin snakes or soul-stealing fish elves really want the world to thrive? Do the Skaven have any interest in the other chaos gods besides their Horned Rat? Do Ogors have any prejudice as to who it is they’re eating and who is happy watching them do it?

Questions for the philosophers. 😁

This.  I'd rather the individual factions beneath and grow without being forced into 4 cookie cutter groupings.  

[michu]

Just now, King Under the Mountain said:

This.  I'd rather the individual factions beneath and grow without being forced into 4 cookie cutter groupings.  

That's the most common mistake people make. They don't understand that GAs are in-game classifications not in-lore. You dont' have any character in the books saying "I'm from Order".  GA's allows new people to just put whatever they want into army even in matched play and just play.

[valenswift]

1 hour ago, michu said:

1. GW has recently started to publish WD rules in their annual update books like Chapter Approved, KT Annual. It's for people that don't buy WD but still want to use it. 

2. Yes, team rules were in the core book. But those are updated rules. In old rules you didnt't have coalition matrix. And there are new battleplans. And maybe more. We stiil don't know everything. There is also "create your own hero warscroll" section and new army and terrain generator.

3. By that logic everything can be house ruled - the point of GHB  is to provide inspiration and a basic structure for your game. And some people prefer to have official rules.

That's the point of Matched Play section.  It's not for reinventing the wheel but for slight updates. Changing terrain rules, new Command Abilities, rebalancing the battleplans (And there are two that were  not in last GHB).

Quite the opposite. It's finally free of them.

Sorry I promise I won’t have an opinion or say anything against GW again 🤣🤣🤣

[King Under the Mountain]

4 minutes ago, michu said:

That's the most common mistake people make. They don't understand that GAs are in-game classifications not in-lore. You dont' have any character in the books saying "I'm from Order".  GA's allows new people to just put whatever they want into army even in matched play and just play.

Never mentioned in-game classification.  But let's use Destruction as an example.  Every faction in it has been shoehorned to have some connect to Gorkamorka even when factions like Ogres, had none in their original fantasy faction.  So what happens?  They are forced into a cookie cutter faction.

[schwabbele]

So based on the alliance page, SoB are the "last" unreleased faction, you think we are done for a while and enter a state of refinement / polishing of the already released factions?

[michu]

3 minutes ago, valenswift said:

Sorry I promise I won’t have an opinion or say anything against GW again 🤣🤣🤣

Sorry, that having different opinion and using actual arguments is defending GW to you.

3 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

Every faction in it has been shoehorned to have some connect to Gorkamorka even when factions like Ogres, had none in their original fantasy faction. 

That's your problem?? Old World is dead. It's pantheons are mostly irrelevant. Great Maw was not only a god but also a physical place, a fissure in the earth. It no longer exists. AoS Ogors probably don't know it ever existed. They worship the most feral and gluttonuos thing they know and it's Gorkamorka.

[King Under the Mountain]

2 minutes ago, michu said:

Sorry, that having different opinion and using actual arguments is defending GW to you.

That's your problem?? Old World is dead. It's pantheons are mostly irrelevant. Great Maw was not only a god but also a physical place, a fissure in the earth. It no longer exists. AoS Ogors probably don't know it ever existed. They worship the most feral and gluttonuos thing they know and it's Gorkamorka.

Yes it is my problem and I only used Ogres as an example.  I'd rather have the freedom of Factions that dont have to fit into the Grand Alliances.

 

Again I fall into the trap of arguing about this so I'll stop.  You wont change my mind and I wont change yours. 

[Scurvydog]

Interesting preview, but not really sure what to make of it. A but more polish to matched play scenarios is fine of course, but just a minor thing. I hope meeting engagements get some alternatives, as my gaming group has moved away from it due to the horrible balance of having the army split and moving in from table edges, it makes armies with low mobility almost unplayable, or at least forces very specific builds, as much regular infantry not on the table turn 1 will never even see combat before all is said and done.

I don't know what to make of the flying stuff, just a minigame I guess, not something I imagine every playing though.

Will be interesting to see any new point updates and what meta they are balanced around, since the current situation has really put a wrench in things and I fear balance has been done based on a meta that already no longer exists.

[michu]

Just now, King Under the Mountain said:

I'd rather have the freedom of Factions that dont have to fit into the Grand Alliances.

For me the GA is freedom. If I want to make a mishmash of forces without using allies and CoS book (as not everyhing is here) I can do it even in matched play and still have allegiance abilities and artefacts (not the best ones but still). That's freedom.

[valenswift]

26 minutes ago, michu said:

Sorry, that having different opinion and using actual arguments is defending GW to you.

It did come across as a little defensive but if it was simply because you are looking forward to the GHB then that’s cool you’re going to get something out of it. Personally, I’m going to give it a miss this year. 

[Beastmaster]

38 minutes ago, michu said:

Sorry, that having different opinion and using actual arguments is defending GW to you.

That's your problem?? Old World is dead. It's pantheons are mostly irrelevant. Great Maw was not only a god but also a physical place, a fissure in the earth. It no longer exists. AoS Ogors probably don't know it ever existed. They worship the most feral and gluttonuos thing they know and it's Gorkamorka.

The Gorkamorka connection wasn’t really stressed in the Mawtribes book iirc. Seems like it didn’t sit too well with the authors, too, wanting to create some unique faction.

And that’s basically my point: More freedom of story. Maybe my Mawtribes are on the Mawpath to find/summon a new great maw like in the legends? Gorkamorka lore would just get in the way of that lore idea. Maybe my (future) Idoneth developed some dark connection to the more destructive parts of old Mathlann (it was heavily hinted that Mathlann=Manann=1/2 Stromfels in the old lore)? That would make them more Destruction than Order. And so on.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Beastmaster